View Full Version : New member - new reef tank!
thought i'd let you know what i'm starting out with (not too big) tank, stand and lid all custom built from clearseal, tank size 42" (length) x 24" (high) x 18" (deep)
Filtration - 2x sigma 3 power heads with rena U/G plates, plus a Fluvel 404 external canister.
Lighting - Twin 36" life glow tubes with built in reflectors, plus 1x 36" blue moon (all on timers)
Heaters - 2x 250w Visi-Therms
Skimmer - Red Sea prisim skimmer
Started tank begining of october and things seem well, no casualtys yet! (touch wood), i'm lucky enough to work in an aquatic shop so have full access to anything i need (and more importantly at the right price!http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif test readings have been good for a while now, stock now as follows :-
1x Yellow tang
1x Powder blue tang
2x Cleaner shrimps
1x Boxing shrimp (coral reef banded or barbershop)
10x Hermit Crabs
12x Turbo snails
1x Blue starfish
1x Red starfish
4x Common percula clowns
1x Scooter blenny
1x Dragon wrass
1x Chalk goby
1x Cherub angel
1x Cleaner Wrass
Yellow polyps
Giant polyps
Devils finger coral
African bush (frag)
Cabbage (frag)
Atlantic Anenome
Malu - Common Anenome
Plus Caulerpa floridana
yes i know it's a lot to start, but like i said i work in a aquatic shop so i used water from tanks at work, plus filter medium from our display tank, and also put my canister filter contents in our display tanks sump, so a quick maturity could be acheived, lemme know what you guys think!
Welcome to the board.
You say 'It is alot to start' - to be quite honest I think it is too much even if your tank was fully matured. For instance, I would not consider keeping a powder blue in a 3.5ft tank - they need far more room than that. You should have posted it on a US reef forum for a good ole flaming http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
My advice would be to have a good old session reading this board, as well as ReefCentral.com (US site) to give you some very useful advice on various aspects of the hobby.
Welcome to UR
Hopefully you will benefit from UR as much as we all done. We are a friendly enough group, but you will find there are a few things that often get emotions running high on here. 2 of there are tangs and anenomes. If I were you I would put my flame proof suit on cos you will hit some (kindly meant) stick.
So, where do we start. It sounds like you have some beautiful creatures there. Stocking is much too much for that tank. *Also the lighting is a bit sub-minimal for the malu.
Luckily you work for a LFS so you should be able to arrance some returns.
What test kits are you using to enable you to say all is well? I suspect that the prizm is a little underpowered for the stocking levels. Also I probably wouldnt (now) use UGFs. I started with them following the advice of my LFS. They work fine in the short term, but after a while you will run into problems.
Would you advise your customers to set their tank up like this?
Last edited by Rabbit at Jan. 13 2003,14:08
Well time will tell as to weather what i've done will work or not, and working in the shop enables me to hear how many many people keep differant things in differant ways...
I'm a big, big beliver in NO hard and fast rules, for instance if you read up on the way americans, english and germans keep marines, all three are compleatly different! Don't get me wrong i appreiciate all the advice i can get, but like i said about working in the shop, if i spoke to 20 marine customers they would all give me a differant story as with what i should do to my set-up! I have some customers growing big healthy hard corals under soft tubes (many would argue can't be done) i have a customer who has a 9 foot tank with no skimmer and only two p/heads running u/g filter plates! all seems to be well, also i have read every available marine book i can find, all of which contradicts each other (in some ways) so which do you go for?? I cannot say what will and won't work, and i would advise customers wanting to keep marines to read as much as possible on the net, buy a good book and then make up there own mind as to which way they want to play it! Bottom line what works for me may not work for someone else, and vice versa! BUT please don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to say "i'll show you", and i'm gratefull for all and any advice i get, but my tank looks good and everything is fine (at the moment) so i guess i'll either have to say in a few months, "yep, you were all right, i was a dumbass" or i will say "told you!" LOL, all the best guys and please don't flame me too badly, i'm not trying to be a know-it-all, i'm just trying to find out what works for me!
The reason you may get grief about the tangs is that they are relatively big fish and need lots of space. *If they don't have the space they require they show behaviours which are stress related. *The fish equivalent to depression if you will. *
I agree that lots of different methods work, but why do things that are unnecessarily stressful to your stock. *Yes we all need to learn but do we need to learn what is already known at some poor fish's expense.
Also, when you defend your methods it helps if you try to use some objective measure of them. *This is why I asked about your tank parameters. *You have used LFS water as a short cut for your tank. *Most LFS water has far from ideal composition, being high in nitrites, nitrates, occ ammonium and phosphates. *That isn't a criticism of fish shops, just a end result of the practicalities of keeping lots of fish for a relative short time.
Another issue is that unless you have looked at all these systems and evaluated them, how do you know they are successful. The more often they come in and buy new stock, the more likely that there is something amiss. Think about it....with established tanks why do they need to keep buying?
Last edited by Rabbit at Jan. 13 2003,15:23
Hi rabbit, nice to talk with you, the water i used was from the display tank not the sales tanks, which i agree do fluctuate a lot! i would love to hear as many storys and experiences as poss so i can try to advise customers as well as i can! The marine customers we have that i'm refering to, don't keep buying livestock to replace dead stuff, they keep comming back to find anything new and interesting! we sell quite a few corals and invertes, not too many fish, most of our marine sales are customers wanting something unusual or just to order something specific, So they usually collect straight away rather than release into our system!
I've got test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphates, PH, KH, copper, and disolved oxygen. Plus obvoisly i can compare results with our display tank and use the test equipment at work! I don't think i'm doing anything too bad at the moment although i do agree the tangs will grow to large, but i do plan a bigger tank asap! All my fish was ordered in and i have only put in juviniles so they adapt better.
I'll put up some pics, so you all can see it, and slate me more! lol, but please keep the advice comming!
Some pics -
OK guys, lemme have it!!!!!
My Tank (http://www.geocities.com/neo_iw/daves_marine_tank.htm)
Last edited by daveiw at Jan. 13 2003,17:34
Coralchris
13-01-03, 18:40
I don't think there is any nice way I can say this so I'm just going to say it. I don't think from the description and stocking levels versus timescale and tank volume you are really in any position to be advising anyone.
I think your advice may be based on false or misleading *information and I don't think you will be doing newcomers any favours by advising them of your "conclusions!"
I have been keeping marines for 9 years now and at one stage I owned a small shop. Fortunatley I realised my "expertise!!" was based on the conclusions of the many authors work I had read and not on actual experience.
As a result I based my advice to proven techniques, I hope you can do the same as it won't take long for the true enthusiasts to gauge your level of experience.
I have only recently joined this board and in the short time I have been here I have been very impressed with the sympathetic approach to reefkeeping displayed by (most) of the members and the sheer combined wealth of experience that a sensible aquarist can draw on.
I am only just rebuilding my tank after a house move and a few years out and am approaching it as an newcomer again so as not to subject stock to stress due to my overconfidence.
Please note my last tank was a 4x2x2 fully stocked reef tank where all occupants where thriving including stony corals and a hectaractis anemone *I had for nearly 3 years, so I did have a fair bit of experience.
Once again I really hope that you can take this as it is meant even though reading back through it myself I can see how it could be taken the wrong way.
I wish you and more importantly your tank occupants every success.
Chris
Last edited by Coralchris at Jan. 13 2003,17:47
rabbit how many LFS have you been into and tested there water conditions then. out of interest.
Have tested water myself for nitrates and phosphates and nitrates from 4 shops. *The results of the worse 2 werent supprising as they use tap water for top ups, and advise using it. *
There have been various results of similar posted on here. *No one has posted results that the average UR subscriber would find acceptable for their own tank. There have also been replies from shops accepting these results. *Of course there are deficiencies with this form of data (selection bias - people usually only test if they feel there is reason to, only reporting of positive results, small sample) but it is all we as consumers have to go on.
The point being made (if you read it) is that is because the shops aren't set up as hobbiest tanks it is very difficult to get ideal conditions. *This was not a criticsm of shops, just an acknowledgement of available data.
A shop that has just opened locally has a sign on the door of its water treatment room saying that anyone can have a look in if they ask. They have a MASSIVE skimmer in there. Great I though....sadly the last 2 times I popped in to have a look the skimmer was turned off. Stupidly I didn't ask why, there may be a good reason I suppose.
Last edited by Rabbit at Jan. 13 2003,18:12
fair one. so shops have actually let you test there water then.
Coralchris
13-01-03, 19:15
I always test the water from Invert bags when I get them home if buying from a new shop.
Chris
2 gave me samples (I asked) .... not surprisingly these were the best ones. *The other 2 I didnt ask.....but has bought a small piece in...... Not ideal but the journey home was less than 15 minutes and I doubt such tiny pieces could make much diffence. *As I say, not an ideal way to collect data.
Chris.....how many shops have nitrates less than 25? less than 10 (the best I got was between 10 and 25, the worse between 50 and 100 with Salifert test kit)
Last edited by Rabbit at Jan. 13 2003,18:33
Coralchris
13-01-03, 19:43
I think about 3 but I have found that some of the least expected outlets perform better than the large chains. Probably due to the everchanging bioload of the bigger stores.
I think this was your point was it not Rabbit? The stocking levels for shops are not very stable, imagine constantly changing the amount of load on your filter system and imagine trying to compensate for fluctuations. The key to getting good livestock is get it before it enters dealers tanks. The dealers have problems the average hobbyist can hardly even begin to imagine and most cope admirably.I understand what you where trying to say rabbit and I think most dealers would agree.
Chris
I think we cannot expect perfection from shops. All they can do is try. Some obviously try harder than others.
If a dealer has a number of large messy eaters, and all the tanks are connected then water quality is almost bound to suffer. As well as fish being transfered along with corals into their tanks on a weekly basis.
Having said that the approach of people like Roy Meakes is praisworthy. He has a plenum which is bigger than any tank I'll ever own. (Havent tested his water though http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif )
Other places you know are going to be disasterous by the decaying matter in their tanks (no names, no packdrill).
Dave,
Please do something about your heater - your anemone can wander and might get itself burnt.
As you've asked for feedback - IMHO I think your tank is overstocked, under skimmed and the filtration would not be able to cope.
Naturally you will take onboard as little or as much as you like from all the comments here - but I fear you will be posting bad news in the next coming months.
For example, your sand looks too 'new' for the goby to shift anything out of value, so please at least make sure that it is feeding from food added.
I hope you prove me wrong and make it a success story.
Good luck.
bunglehaze
13-01-03, 21:02
Hi davie, welcome to ultimate reef m8!
Your tank seems to be coming along nicely, one word of friendly advice from me is lose the undergravel filter and the fluval as a filter. The reason I am advising is based on a long series of events spanning 2 years and resulting in a complete change of setup, and a livestock cost of £1000.
The problem with UGF's is that over time they collect detritus and slowly convert to being ineffective, same goes with the fluval as a filter. If you are to put the fluval to good use you can still use it for circulation and/or media such as rowaphos, If you want to have a browse on the problems I had when using this equipment please have a browse through my site at the bottom of the page.
Just so you know I was running a similar setup to yours for approximately 2 years on the advice of the shopkeeper and customers of my LFS and have only just researched enough about it (thru this site) to sell my old setup and start from fresh.
As with all the advice given on this board it is not meant as a condemnation on what you are trying to achieve but merely a GOOD guideline on how to do it right for the animal we keep, most anemone's for instance require bright powerful lights such as metal halide to produce zooxanthellae algae and as a result most captive malu type anemone's do not last very long under less than perfect conditions - some only a couple of months. The issue here is really to appreciate that if we intend to keep marines we have to make sure the water is as near to natural seawater as possible and is kept clean constantly, unfortunately with your current filtration this may be a little hampered.
If you need any advice, please dont hesitate to p/m me
cheers
leigh http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Hi dave, welcome to UR..bit of a grilling for a first post. but trust me there's alot of well informed reefkeepers their tank qualities speak for themsleves.I know this may be a little dis heartening but i would house your stock in the shop and start again..try layering the tank with living sand Aragamax of some sort.. also some of your rock looks black to me with the odd bit of living rock i'd keep the LR(living rock) and get rid of the rest and actually buy some high quality rock.also get those tangs out the tank before they show signs of stress...again trying not to be pressumtious it looks like you've rushed into getting all the fish into your tank.Also your Skimmer isn't too great..trust me i've had one better off as a door stop although i was proud of my modification which reminds me i need to contact redsea http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif..undergravel filtration works but its looked at as an older era of fish keeping..ever thought about a sump with a DSB (deep sand bed) hope all works out and if you need any more advice (and thats what it is not criticism) just ask...NIC
Last edited by narthur at Jan. 13 2003,20:30
Coralchris
13-01-03, 21:40
Hey Bunglehaze,
Your tank and website are looking good m8, Its nice to see han honest account or reefkeeping problems.
Chris
Hi Dave,
Welcome to UltimateReef! http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Now then, it does appear that you have a lot of stock for a tank that is still very young. I'm sure that it must be incredibly tempting working in a fish shop and having access to all those lovely fish and invertebrates but you need to stop now and take stock of what you have. Read (or maybe reread) all those lovely up to date books that should be available in your shop (hopefully) and consider carefully the information that they contain. Also please take on board some of the comments made by others on this thread.
Please keep us updated on how you get on http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Regards
Lisa
Hi Dave,
Firstly a big welcome to the board! http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Please don't get disheartened by the general concensus here, but as we're all of the same opinion, it might be worth you just stopping and taking stock of the situation.
Carl & I started marines in 2001 and due to the advice of our LFS we went with an UGF, no skimmer and were also advised that the worst thing we could do was to read a book or the Internet! http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif
This turned out to be the worst advice as we lost the lot within 4 months. Like yours, our tank seemed fine for the first two or three months but as we progressed we started noticing the demise of corals, and we lost all our beloved fish.
We could have been put off by this sad experience (especially as it had cost us alot), but we started again and read up (till the cows come home) and we've ended up with the system we have now! Happy People...
We are not saying UGFs don't work (because they do in the beginning); it's just that there are better ways of setting up your tank http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
FWIW we had a Powder blue in this first setup and we lost it because the system wasn't good enough.
Please ask more questions......and read, read, read....
Finally, we wouldn't dream of putting water from our LFS in our tank because the quality is just not good enough.
HTH,
Hels
Thanks guys, like i said though, i didn't go in totally blind, i did read every book we had in the shop, plus i ordered a few (I actually spent nearly £300 on books alone! ) and to be honest most actually recomend a u/g filter with a canister as being the best! (doh) BUT don't get me wrong you cannot beat experiance! so i will have a few re-thinks. The rocks are lava rock - Although i've got on order 2 boxes (50kg) of red sea rock so there will be no lava rock in a week or so anyway. I'd spoke to one of our customers who used to run a marine shop (he has a 10' corner tank (L-shape)) who suggested the u/g filter with a layer of calcium plus the the coral sand on top! He himself uses no skimmer and actually collects sea water for the odd water change! (yeah, i know) - literally once every 3 months! but his tank has been there for about 13 years and looks great! so i can only pick up the odd bits of info and to be honest guess what's gonna be best for me! thanks for all the advice though guys, i love finding out newer and better ways of doing things!
Just out of interest i'll test our display tank at work, and the sales tanks and put up the results, also here's my tank at the moment:-
SG - 1.023 at 25C
PH - 8.3 (stable after about 25 days)
Ammonia/Ammonium - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 3mg (now stable after being around the 20mg mark)
Phosphate - <0.01
KH - 10
Redox - 350mV
Strontium - 10mg/litre
Iodine - 0.5mg/litre
Iron - 0.05mg/litre
Calcium - 440mg per litre
I've been using Bacterlife, sea trace, calcium +3, iodine, sea vita, buff and just started coral trace.
Thanks guys.
Last edited by daveiw at Jan. 14 2003,10:11
Coralchris
14-01-03, 12:06
Just wanted to say,
It takes a big man to take on board such a load of critisism and not spit his dummy out. I feel you have probably just taken the biggest step towards becoming a sypathetic reef keeper. Well done on taking it all in, I am sure you have just made yourself a few new friends who will take pleasure in helping you on your way to reef success. For what its worth we all start in the same boat but some of us row faster than others http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif * . Keep on updating us as I am sure you tank is going to work out well in the end.
Chris
thanks chris, http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Don't worry i'm not gonna spit my dummy http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif at the end of the day most of you have been keeping marines for years, me - just 4 months! I've only been in the shop for about 6 months and admit i'm in no posistion to argue with experienced reef keepers (yet, but i'm sure i will, lol)
All i wanna be able to do is give good advice to marine keepers and wannabees as there is only about 20-30 on the Isle of Wight. We need more! All i can do is read as much as poss and talk to all our customers about what they are doing and what works for them, but like i said before, what works for one probably won't work for the next guy! I'll learn from any mistakes i make and the advice i get and hopefully i can have a tank as good as the ones i have seen on the board! But i WILL keep everyone informed of how things are going and what i'm doing so as to get it as right as possible (and don't worry, NOTHING else is going in the tank)
thanks board http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif
Well said Chris couldn't agree with you more. Daveiw you said and I quote"i did read every book we had in the shop, plus i ordered a few (I actually spent nearly £300 on books alone! ) and to be honest most actually recomend a u/g filter with a canister as being the best! (doh)" Daveiw I have also spent a lot of money on books and not one recommended ugf 's, it all boils down to the age and author of the books, try searching for some more up todate theories on the net for your next reading, ie Berlin system, plenum, deep sand beds etc etc, if you need any links pm me your e mail addy regards Darryl. http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
All i can say Darryl is that you must have differant books to me because mine list the filtration systems available and all list ug's and canisters if not using a sump tank! Some talk about running the canister filter through the ug so to blow clean water up through the filter bed! (i didn't) I dunno maybe i've just been unlucky and spoke to the wrong people and read the wrong books, but all any newbie can do is talk to people and read books, what else could i have done? I followed all the advice for matureing my tank from our main marine keepers, and to be honest i have just read a book listed in the back of "marine world" magazine (complete marine) and they mature a tank in 70 days, i took longer before adding stuff, all i did was put in a domino damsel after 3 weeks (and even then things were stable having seeded my tank anyway) then he left and over the last 5 weeks i've added stock, ok now i know it's too much (maybe???) but opinions vary, and i need to find my own feet to a certain extent so i can pass on my experiences to others as you all are doing to me.
The only thing confusing me is.... if i used mature water to fill the tank, and mature filtration media, plus seeded live rock to start the whole tank going. Then i waited 2 months before adding stuff, how is my tank any differant from the display tank at work, (that's been there 8 years) it has all the right levels and bacteria needed, (for example my ammonia and nitrite never even showed a trace once! so the tank was virtually started mature) and i have just read on a website from a senior member on here (i'm mentioning no names) that while the tank was maturing and ammonia and nitrite where still present after 4 week they added fish (tangs and clowns) there website has a diary of what they did and when! to be honest i think what they have done is far worse than anything i have done! maybe i'm wrong, if i am then tell me, i will quite happily take critisisym and advice, but like i said before how does a newbie distinguish between good and bad advice?
Hi Dave,
Just out of curiosity what are the names of the books you were reading? Most of the books I have (and I have a fair few) actually go as far as to say that undergravel filtration are no longer considered suitable for coral reef aquaria ('The Modern Coral Reef Aquaria' vol 1 for example, an excellent book and series for that matter).
Anyhow I agree that it can be extremely confusing for somebody first setting up, there are a lot of conflicting ideas still floating around. It sounds to me that your fish shop is a bit out of date if it reccommended you to set up your tank like you have (sadly it's all too common I think).
Still, now that you've found UR you can weed out the good advice from the bad advice. http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Regards
Lisa
[QUOTE]and i have just read on a website from a senior member on here (i'm mentioning no names) that while the tank was maturing and ammonia and nitrite where still present after 4 week they added fish (tangs and clowns) there website has a diary of what they did and when! to be honest i think what they have done is far worse than anything i have done! maybe i'm wrong,
I don't know if the person you are talking about is me but my website has a diary and if read carefully then the reason there was a small ammonia reading is because the test kit was rubbish! http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif
Last edited by tigermad at Jan. 15 2003,15:36
Apologies if it was not my tank you were talking about.
Basiclly all i need now is the CORRECT advice from people who really know! The books i read are mostly interpet books, The main one i tried to sort of follow in setting up my tank was a book by "Nick Daikin" called interpet guide to marine aquarium (wish DOES suggest ug filter and canister filter with uv running 24/7!!! ) which is basiclly what i did, and have been told that i was wrong! Well i followed the advice of a author of books and mags and marine keeper for about 35 years and have now been told that good ol' "Nick" don't know ####! (pehaps i should sue him for getting me to buy all the wrong gear) But yeah thanks lisa it is VERY confusing and before everybody starts saying that i don't know what i'm doing, remember i did say i read what i could and asked who i could (I WISH I'D JUST KNOWN ABOUT THIS BB) but how does a begineer tell between what's good and bad advice? i mean i've kept tropicals since i was 6! i'm now 28! never had a problem. Cam advised i came here and i'm glad i did! thanks for everyones advice i guess i'm gonna have to make the best i can out of what i got (cost me £1500 near enough so far) so money would be an issue! wish me luck if you're still talking to me! http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
Last edited by daveiw at Jan. 15 2003,22:51
Dave, you have hit a major issue on the head. In my first reply to you I asked whether you would recomend your setup to a customer. The reason I asked that is that it is common LFS advice.
I initially was advised UGF, no skimmer, tap water. Muggins followed that advice. I then read Modern Coral Reef Aquarium (Fossa and Nilsen) and wondered if I had been sold a pup. At least I had been persuaded to buy plenty of live rock. The UGF worked ok for a while but then things started to slide. Luckily I moved house at this time so ripped the UGF out.
You are right when you say there are many ways to run a tank and you can get some success with most of them. However it is best to find the best method for you NOW. Tweaking a bit here and a bit there for the next 3 years will cost you a lot more. Get one of these wonderful reefkeepers you know to look after your stock, tear out the UGFs and put some play sand on the bottom of the tank (4 inches). Get some crud, small bits of rock and sand from the shop you work in and from the other reefers you know and let the sand bed mature (wont take too long).
Get a couple of good quality pieces of rock at the same time and you will have a tank that will run smoother for longer, look better and be able to cope with your stocking levels better. Look for a second hand skimmer that will do a mans job. You can do all that for less than 200 quid. A fraction of what you have already spent but will save you a fortune in stock, effort and bit by bit upgrades.
We speak strongly about this cos so many of us have been through this painful route to our Xanadus
HTH
Uh oh... ND strikes again!
Erm... I bought those books too, then thankfully found another online forum and also found a document Watford Aquarium - what an eye opener!
Anyway, I was thinking of putting those books on sale on the s'hand market place but will recycle them now. Would not want to be responsible for another newbie starting off on the wrong foot.
UGF, gravel, dead coral skeletons and tap water... yikes!
BTW - I would recommend reading the booklet from Watford. Its a little out of date but quite useful reading. Send an email to Danny@reefkeeper.co.uk and he'll send you a word document copy.
You mean you are not following those guidelines for your new tank Tuan? http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Dave,
I must hold my hand up here and admit that the first book I ever bought was one of Mr Dakins. The pictures were quite pretty http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif Fortunately for me I had to save up for two years before I could afford the tank that I wanted and by that time I'd read a lot more and knew better. Thank god!
Regards
Lisa
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">UGF, gravel, dead coral skeletons and tap water... yikes![/b][/quote]
That's sounds exactly like the first tank I had *http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/image05.jpg
Cyano anyone *http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif
Out of curiosity does anyone know what the dead coral skeletons probably were when they were alive?
I have put a small dead coral skeleton in my sump, is this bad?
Is not that they're bad - after all, live rock are made up of dead coral skeletons... ish!
Its just that we'd rather see live corals - than encourage the practice of 'harvesting' corals and drying them out as souvenirs!
one point i think is worth a mention, books recomending ug filters, before buying a book check the original publishing date as there are still some very old books on the shelves, in nice new covers, any book recomending ugf etc must be over 10yrs old
Harry
Wow, at last i feel a bit better, i was starting to think that everyone thought i was just a clueless ####! maybe i am, but thanks for some more advice, but can anyone recomend a damn good book i can order through work that will help me a lot!
Posted by Tigermad's hubby
I thought I'd just add my two pennuth to the mix.
When we set up our tank, nearly 10 months ago now, we were also told by our LFS to set up a trickle filter http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif. It wasn't until we'd been on UR for a while that we realised the error of our way. Luckily, after a bit of arguing with the store, we managed to cancel the order for the trickle filter and swapped it for a DSB in the sump http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.
We also tried to run before we'd learnt to walk and introduced acro frags into the tank after only a couple of months. Sadly the enevitable occured and we lost the acros. Now we have mainly soft corals with a few euphilias, a pineapple and a sun coral as our hard corals. I'd like to maybe get an acro or two at some time but we are still not happy with the stability of our calcium so until it stabilises, we're stick to mainly softies.
It's amazing how a lot of LFSs still give outdated advice. You would have thought that they would have all the latest gubbins available to themselves so should be able to give the most up to date advice.
All I can say to all newbies, of which, I still consider myself to be, is to take in as much advise as you can. Then you have to do the tricky task of filtering the advise. Most of the time it becomes apparent which way you should be going.
From your posts, it sounds like you have been talking to Cam. Does this mean that you do, as he does, collect the local seaweed. The tangs love it.
Interesting post from Mandy's hubby. I'm sure Mandy remembers feeling slightly bullied when everyone was telling her to slow down http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif One issue with LFS, we are constantly being told they make no money on livestock. That means they have to sell the white goods to stay in business. DSBs are not that great for generating revenue. Trickle filters/fluidised bed filters/UGFs/UV all make profit.
After being told UGF was the way to set up my tank, I has lots of "this will make it better still" sales patter. Snake lotions galore were put foreward. I'm not too convinced that it is in the interests of the smaller stores to be up to date. The larger stores or those with a good rep will supply a much larger population and so not need to be quite so behind. A little cynical perhaps?
Thanks tigermad, but from what from what i can tell it's not just the advise that needs filtering, it's also to filter the people who know from those who don't! I worked in IT for about 10 years before going into the lfs, and i always said "there is only one thing worse than someone who doesn't know what there doing......, and that's someone who THINKS they know what there doing!
By the way excuse my newbie status but what's a dsb?
secretsquirrel
17-01-03, 16:41
http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Not really the place to do so but I thought I'd tell everyone that Tigermad's hubby now has his own username. May I introduce myself. Spawn of Tigermad or more commonly known as secretsquirrel.
I am sure da missus will be a lot happier without me messing up her posts. http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Dave,
Have a look at the book list on the main website: http://www.ultimatereef.com/home_online.htm
Tullock's Natural Reef Aquarium and Eric Borneman "Aquarium Corals" have both been recommended in the past.
cheers everyone http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif
I have both of those bokks and they are will worth reading. I'd recomend Tullock first as a gentle intro http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
All I need now is the Bourneman equivalent for fish...
Tim
simon garratt
21-01-03, 02:59
Hi Daview........
Wow what a good sport you are......well done m8 for atking it all in, and well done folks for being so helpfull, 'nice to see'... http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
As far as books go, I would definately recommend the Fossa and Nilso books especially vol 1 which covers set up and husbandry. can get a bit techi in places but once your on that learning curve, aint nothin gonna stop you. http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
If you want some easy reading in laymens terms ie reefer speak, rather than biologist speak. Have a look at my website under the H&T sections especially, chemistry, deep sand beds ( big section on the pitfalls of UGF's here) and circulation. these should help a bit.
Kind regards and welcome to UR..........
Si.
bunglehaze
21-01-03, 12:43
Dave,
for what its worth I was given the Nick Dakin book - The marine Aquarium, with my first setup.
I bought the good ole UGF, a fluval canister to run bio and a couple of maxi-jet powerheads for circulation, I ran my system like this for nrly 2 yrs and had nowt but problems with cyano, toxins just general death causing issues etc etc etc.
I found ultimatereef and started reading and soon plumped up my first post explaining how I ran my system and came up with what I then thought was a tyrade of abuse.
What I failed to realise is that on bb's like these ppl are very limited with time to write posts and canb sometimes come across as bolshy ( I remember getting into a little argument/strop with rabbit with my first post). As you get to know everyone in this community you will see the wealth of knowledge and probably like me end up having to topsy turvy your tank to try and rectify the mistakes of mr Dakin's advice.
I have now got a new tank, drilled with sump and big skimmer - im still missing metal halides, r/o unit, stirrer and calcium reactor but im getting there. In fact I still have not managed to sort my rockwork out yet and have one little pile of L/R on the right hand side of the tank, because of this i dont have my main tank sand bed in yet, all this will come with time and patience (I HOPE!!http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
stick with it m8, keep posting and keep reading loads you have a good resource on here that is far better than any book you will buy as it is updated on a daily basis with new ideas, solutions and equipment.
cheers
leigh http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Thanks leigh & Simon, it's good to find some decent advice, but i gotta admit i'm pretty upset 'cause i reakon i spent over £200 on books and now it looks as though they are all naff http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif But what i would like people on this board to remember is that i read the advice and took it! now i'm reading differant advice (ie. from members of this board) and hopefully eventually i will learn my own way and get things running well and loking good http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Don't get me wrong i've seen the pics of the members tanks and they look stunning http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif so fingers crossed it'll come good.
I've ordered an aquamedic sump (merlin i think) on recomendation with a syphon down to the sump and a eheim pump back up, then after a while i intend to just remove the uplifts from the ug filter, but i think i will still keep the fluvel 404 as it's good for particle removel, thanks for everything guys, great forum http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif
bunglehaze
22-01-03, 23:30
No problem dave, that what this BB is here for m8, I only own 1 book and that is the marine atlas - purely for identification purposes.
I do intend to buy more eventually because the bb can only offer advice as and when problems or queries crop up but as with everything in this hobby you need to be very well off to be able to just buy everything you need when you need it so certain things MUST take priority.
Keep reading posts m8 and if you are looking for info on anything - no matter how trivial either post up a query or so a search.
I must admit that thanks to every one of the contributing members on this forum I have learned an incredible amount in just a few months, far more so than picking it up as I went along (in the wrong direction) so I must say a big thank you to all who make this BB the fantastic resource it truly is and after the bumpy patch it suffered recently I for one am glad that it is still bumbling along quite nicely offering help to all.
Just keep learning m8 that is all you can do in this hobby - even relative newbies like me have offered advice to the more seasoned reefers on here. Im quite proud to say that even after such a short space of time I am now confident enough to offer more answers/advice than i ask so it must be working.
cheers m8 and good luck!
leigh http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif
I once had a Malu in a 48x18x15, under three tubes,that was 8 years ago and I am sure I can still smell it now . When it died it was enough to make you chuck your guts, a jelly mess in the tank took me hours to remove . Remove it before it is too late . Glenn
bunglehaze
23-01-03, 02:47
I have to agree about the malu im afraid! IME they are very delicate and have a tendancy toward a very short lifespan. mine didnt go quite as gunky when it went but my old ceryanthus anemone did and its a royal pain to get out if you dont catch it in time.
Best plan if you MUST go for an anemone is to get a carpet - although IME the can be buggers themselves, very hardy but they can do a lot of damage if they decide they want to move around ( and they do tend to )
cheers
leigh http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.