View Full Version : Float switches
CodeMonkey
12-03-02, 09:32
What sort of float switches do people use and where do they get them from?
Any types they would not recommend?
I looked into DIY'ing it - and by the time you add up all the bits/postage etc.. ain't worth building one.
I bought a ready made unit from Plymouth Tropical Marine - the control box is about the size of a match box, and has an overide switch plus on-LED. Cost me a total of 45squids or there about. Has worked just fine for nearly a year.
Here's the link, its called salinity stabilizer (http://www.tropical-marines.co.uk/DRY_GOODS/SALINITY_salt.html#SALINITY)
Oops - the link doesn't work anymore.. wonder if they're still in business!
Hi
Maplins do a range of swithches varying from £5 to £20. *You do need a bit of electrical DIY knowledge to set them up though!
Maplin (http://maplin.co.uk)
I have just fitted, ok had fitted (Scorpion), a FVKITKENT to my new RO unit.
It cost me £50 mail order.
Do a search on the web for FVKITKENT and a couple of suppliers should appear.
The FVKITKENT works on back pressure and so has no electrical parts.
The reason I went this way was in case of a power cut, and if an electronic solution had the solenoid stuck open (flooded carpet). http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
The unit was noisy for the first couple of days but soon quietened and if you know someone who has fitted one all the better but it did not seem all that complicated. http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
CodeMonkey
13-03-02, 23:49
The ones I found were in RS Catalogue and they were capable of switching 240 V - which means no relays etc - I was worried about having this much voltage in the tank but then I remembered the 3 powerheads I have in there all wired up to the mains - I was thinking of using 2 in series ie
for the main tank have them in n/c operation so it only takes one to break open to stop the pump - or kill the power to the socket for the pump - in case the syphon breaks
for the RO top up have them in n/o operation and then it requires both of them to close to complete the circuit and activate a pump/air pump - don't know how I am going to do the semi-auto-topup just yet http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
the float switches will cost about £30 all together and the sockets(switched) from B&Q + cabling £15 max all in
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">for the main tank have them in n/c operation so it only takes one to break open to stop the pump [/b][/quote]
I've always wondered why people would do this? In my mind, if your tank and sump has drained to such a level that you have to worry about the pump burning out, you are so screwed anyway!
I mean, the floor has flooded, all your electrical plugs&sockets in the cabinet is fried, so is your external pump.. and all your fish and corals have gone to the great reef in the sky.. and your other half will never let you put another tank in the living room!
Or more seriously - how likely would such a huge leak would occur comparing to how likely your float switch would fail, stopped the pump and kill everything while you're away for a fortnight?
Also, a switch that is not operating on a regular basis will guarantee to be stuck when you need it the most, and when you expect the least. Sure you can clean it/test it... but the one time you forget, Murphy will be watching and tell Sod too..
Sleep on that!
TLP,
The main reason that I want float switches is that I want to use a syphon to transfer water from my main tank to the sump and if there is a power cut, the pump would stop extracting from the sump, then the water would fill the sump & then the carpet ........ http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
The 'maximum' switch would cut a solenoid in the syphon and protect both the sump and the main tank.
I also intend to put a 'minimum' switch in order to make sure that the pump and syphon are in harmony and keep water in the sump.
Mine will be controlled by a PLC, but they could be controlled by simple electronics, if you use N/C solenoids and test every week or so, then I see no problem .....
Kenny
I thought your sump should be large enough to cope with a pump failing and the amount of water above your weir, standpipe or overflow box siphoning back into the sump. ?
Try the Liquid level controller from maplins
K2639 £9.99
Use Titanium Probes with it(is not toxic)
Some guy put up a thread of where the titanium can be ordered - about £2.00/roll is my memory serves me correct
zag http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
CodeMonkey
14-03-02, 22:40
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I *thought your sump should be large enough to cope with a pump failing and the amount of water above your weir, standpipe or overflow box siphoning back into the sump. ?[/b][/quote]
it will be but that is not the reason for the float switch
the reason for the float switch in the main tank is because occasionaly air gets into the syphon and can break the syphon action - now those of you with drilled tanks this isn't a problem - no syphon - but if you use an syphon-overflow box then this means that the water doesn't drain from the tank back to the sump - so the pump in the sump keeps pumping water into the tank - and thus it all goes everywhere - by having *float switch then when the water level gets too high then it stops the pump in the sump - no flood
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The 'maximum' switch would cut a solenoid in the syphon and protect both the sump and the main tank.[/b][/quote]
If you see the overflow box design thread you will see how to make an overflow syphon box that will not drain your whole tank thus no need for solenoids
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Or more seriously - how likely would such a huge leak would occur comparing to how likely your float switch would fail, stopped the pump and kill everything while you're away for a fortnight?
[/b][/quote]
see above about syphons - I think air in the syphon is more likely (or a snail according to some reports)
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sleep on that![/b][/quote]
I'd sleep better knowing there was some protection rather than none at all
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Try the Liquid level controller from maplins[/b][/quote]
doesn't have a high enough switch only rating 50V and no explanation on what it does and how to use it. it would therefore require more work to use adding a relay to switch 240V - as much as I love doing electronics the thing I have learnt is 'keep it simple'.
I did get a float switch from Maplins and it was rated for 240v. I connected it in line to a small Tunze pump. but I would suspect the amperage on your return would be too great .
CodeMonkey
14-03-02, 23:15
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I did get a float switch from Maplins and it was rated for 240v. I connected it in line to a small Tunze pump. but I would suspect the amperage on your return would be too great .
[/b][/quote]
you'd be surprised the pump I am going to use a Eheim 1060 is 50W (~0.2A) - alas Maplins seems to be out and it appears that RS have a greater range and stuff in stock
[/QUOTE]
Liquid level Controller doesn't have a high enough switch only rating 50V and no explanation on what it does and how to use it.
See the Velleman site you'll see it switches 240v 3a and is more versatile than float switches http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Liquid level controller doesn't have a high enough switch only rating 50V and no explanation on what it does and how to use it.[/b][/quote]
See the velleman site http://www.velleman.be/index.asp?lan=1
you'll see it can switch 240V 3A and IMO is more versatile than a float switch
http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
CodeMonkey
15-03-02, 11:47
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you'll see it can switch 240V 3A and IMO is more versatile than a float switch [/b][/quote]
hmm - so it does - looks like different sites differ in the specs
Maplin 50V 3A
Velleman 240V 3A
I wonder who is right http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif - 240 does seem more sensible
still requires a transformers and adapters though which would bring the cost up - thanks for that I'll keep it in mind
CodeMonkey, I see! Didn't think about you guys with siphon boxes - now there's a miracle at work! Oh boy, how quickly does a fish tank gets to be a complicated and uneasy balance!
Appologies!
Ian,
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I thought your sump should be large enough to cope with a pump failing and the amount of water above your weir, standpipe or overflow box siphoning back into the sump. ?[/b][/quote] - indeed. I usually turn off the power once a month and watch the level rise in the sump just to make sure!
As a matter of fact, I've just worked out the ratio of tank/sump for my set up, and its 2.6" - ie, 1" drop in main tank -> 2.6".
BTW guys, I've just ordered 4mtrs worth of Titanium "wires" - these are about 1mm thick only, but should serve as grounding probes. I'll probably have some spare if anybody wants some.
I use 240V float switches for both my RO top-up into the sump, and also as a safety inline from my return pump in case of a problem with the overflow failing/blocking somehow. Cost is about £10 each, and I've had no problems with them at all.
Cheap is good, and if they do the job that's asked of them, who needs more ? http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Rob.
wet weston
16-03-02, 06:21
Rob where did you source your float switches from? I am about to construct my sump with an overflow and need a float switch to control the pump for the return. Can any one offer any advice on actually fitting these to the sump, custom brackets etc, or are you just siliconing them on?
CodeMonkey
16-03-02, 07:00
I found these at RS online (http://rswww.com) then you have to look under Automation | Fluid management & Control | Level Control
Hi CodeMonkey,
I had some RS bog standard float switches acting as "antiflood devices" in plastic tubs in my "reef cupboard" (under the stairs http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ). They have all "stuck" - the contacts have fused. Despite not actually operating at all (except testing) they have failed - why? - because I put too much current through them - this is the important bit. I was putting around 0.75 A through them and most of these float switches are only rated for switching 0.2 to 0.5 A.
It is better and safer to use relays. I am currently sorting this out for myself.
Just thought I'd warn you before you buy.
Steve.
CodeMonkey
18-03-02, 15:17
Already checked - the eheim is 50W (.2A) which is less than 1/2 the max Ampage for the switches I am looking at
CodeMonkey, did you go for the "Horizontal Float" range? if so the which one? too many to choose from http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
CodeMonkey
18-03-02, 18:33
I haven't yet - still trying to work out how to fix them - might use a vertical one as I do not have holes in the side for the horizontal ones
wet weston
22-03-02, 15:21
Guys found this on ebay don't know if they are any good or not, seems like a good price even if they are in the states.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi....=0&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2010311398&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1017150329&indexURL=0&rd=1)
CodeMonkey
22-03-02, 22:56
not bad - seem just like the ones on RS - shipping overseas may bring the price up
guys,
Please remember when a switch manufacturer quotes a contact rating he normally means resistive load, cos we are switching motors on and off this is inductive and worse for the contact than a resistive load. So my advice would to be to give a little tolerance on the rating.
For what its worth i used the vellerman time circuit as a wavemaker (v.good & only 4.99 per channel http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) this was quoted by maplins as 12V, however the relay is capable of switching 240V - it says so on the relay so it must be true.
Hello everyone,
I am thinking of making some sort of Auto Top off system. I have read through these posts but the ideas seems to revolve around trying to put ro water (in a container of sorts) into their tank, My idea is to try and skip that middle process and I was just wondering if anyone knows of a way (or some think I could buy) which would allow me to connect my RO unit directly to my sump. The connecting RO water (via a tube) into the sump bit is easy, the hard bit is that float switches turn power on/off .... I need something that will turns mains water on/off as my Purity on Tap RO unit is controlled by water pressure.
Is there a float switch which can turn mains water on/off ?
Cheers
TK:)
TK,
What I think you require is a Normally Closed Solenoid to put in the RO line. These are just electrically powered valves (a type of these is usually used to control the water going into your washing machine for instance).
The Level switch could be connected to the solenoid via a Relay, and it would then open when required).
Just my idea, if anyone else can give more information to TK, feel free to disagree http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Kenny
TK,
I think what your looking for is a product made by Kent called a FVKITKENT, this works off back pressure and has no electrical parts, you can see the product on the Kent site (www.kentmarine.com).
The solenoid shuts the water off completely, (great if your on a water meter).
If you do a search then you will find a couple of outlets that supply them (thay are about £50).
Since fitting mine I have noticed a marked imrovement with coral expansion and my Regal Tang is finally clear of his constant minor whitepot outbreak.
I put this down to having a stable salinity readings that do not fluctuate with evaporation.[B]
CodeMonkey
25-03-02, 11:10
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So my advice would to be to give a little tolerance on the rating[/b][/quote]
thanks reefer - good advice - I am using the old engineering rule which is to design to use only 1/2 of the max stated http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
Wilfy,
Do you have any details about the Kent Marine equipment, namely two things :-
1. Will it work with my POT RO unit ?
2. The mains water supply/tap is currently some distance from my tank, i can get ro water to it by using a super extended airline (which has one end in the sump and the other connected to the "good water" outlet on my ro unit). Will the Kent Marine Kit allow it's float device to be connected to it's tap off unit if there is a large(ish) distance between the 2 ?
Thanks *http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Hi
I have just bought the Kent float valve and solenoid kit. *I must say that I am not impressed with the quality of the float, particularly the "adjusting" mechanism.
Has anyone else using this found it to look very easy to break? *I would probably suggest using an alternative float mechanism. *Your only problem then would be finding a connector to allow the thin plastic piping from your RO to fit the float valve.
If interested you can download pdf files from the Kent website
Kent Marine (http://www.kentmarine.com)
Daryl
TK,
I use mine with a P O T SP1510 RO Unit with no problems, you can get RO tubing from P O T so I would contact them.
My tank is about 5 metres from my RO unit and the tubing is run under kitchen cupboards drilled from kitchen to living room and into the back of the tank cabinet.
The float switch seems ok to me, my only piece of advice with the fitting would be to get a piece of perspex and cut a notch out of it for the float switch to be held by, rather than a hole, as it shows in the diagrams. This then needs siliconing to the side of your sump.
When the water has levelled (the unit has switched off) mark the tank at the bottom of the perspex and higher/lower the perspex to the level of water you require.
The reason for this is you can slide the float switch out of the perspex and place it in a bucket for water-change water.
If you get really adventurous you can make a holder for the float switch that fits on top of the bucket so the float switch shuts off with the same amount of water in the bucket every time (you can leave it running overnight), have your salt weighed for the correct salinity, drop a powerhead and heater in the bucket, mark the same height on another bucket (for water removal) and you have a quick easy water change mechanism.
This is the best thing I have done for my system and saves a hell of a lot of hassle. http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Thanks to Scorpion as this is his idea and one hell of an idea it is http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Wilfy - Quick question,
Does the Kent Marine Kit stop water from the mains or does it stop water from the "Good Water" outlet pipe.
If it's the later I will be wasting a lot of water 24 x7, if it's the former I will need to run 2 pipes to and from my tank (one bringing waterfrom my RO unit in the kitchen and the other turning off/on the water tap in the kitchen from the float device in the front room).
Am I right or have I still not got my head around how this kit turns water off/on ?
http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif Cheers http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
TK
The Kent kit shuts (solenoid) the water off by means of back pressure, I was sceptical at first as to how they work, but believe me when the float switch activates the solenoid nothing runs to waste.
I am on a water meter also and yes it does shut the water off completely.
It will also prolong the life of your membrane as the unit is not in constant use yet never get the chance to dry out, I have two litre evap a day at present so the unit will be switching on and off continuosly.
Thanks Wilfy,
I'll order one today !
Cheers
Tahir.
hi all,
just been following this switch thing,
i have a RS float in my sump which is on a timer to turn on my fresh water top up at night. this is because it flows through the calk ster and is a great and cheper auto top up.
the r.o. water is on a float valve into the fresh water sump so even this req min attention!!!!
and yes the float switch turns on and of a relay to be safe for elec loading, been running for 6 months no probs http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ben,
smart arse - u coming over for a curry at the weekend http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
thats the last idea i tell you you wigan shite! Wilfy ! is that all i get my name should be up in lights for all that. And who installed the R/O while the other ate all the pies and then when his was faulty made me swap all my bits onto his and didnt even mop up afterwards the wifes been cooking in a canoe for the last week , you could get the Titanic up the River Ribble thanks to you *http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif oh and i forgot the bill for a new cupboards in the post !!!!!!!!!! i'll give you one thing though you did make it sound easy ! oh and by the way that ideas patented and if anyone copies i can sue ( don't forget to write DELTEC on your buckets boys) and if you run an airline to the powerhead in the bucket mixing you salt you can write Fluidised next to Deltec. http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif *http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif *http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif dont forget to look at my website Absolute Crap by Scorpion @ www.gotutherenumnuts.com
Hi all,
If your using a 240v float switch,you realy should be putting them through a relay.You can then run the float switch at around 9-12v.Much better than having another 240v going into your water.The problem with some float swiches is that in time they start to leek in water where the wires go into the switch..... http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Scotty.............. http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
I've used the float switch described here manufactured by PVL. They're cheap and have a reasonable max current rating and, so far, I've been delighted.
http://www.pvl.co.uk/level.htm#MFS17-C-D
check these out, they're cheap, carry a reasonable load and have given me 6 months of trouble free service so far !!
http://www.pvl.co.uk/level.htm#MFS17-C-D
CodeMonkey
18-04-02, 13:32
not bad - they look just like the RS ones and they may be a bit cheaper also
CodeMonkey
18-04-02, 13:37
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">leek in water where the wires go into the switch..... *
[/b][/quote]
maybe but the switches should never be fully submersed* and they seal on them should be just as good as you use on your internal pumps/heaters etc - so I would recommend an RCD switch as well
*to invert the operation of these float switches you invert the float ie remove clip, remove float part, turn it upside down, reconnect float, replace clip. I have seen some people actually invert the whole unit - http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
wet weston
18-04-02, 14:13
So would these switches be OK to control say a 1060 direct or would a relay be required. I am totally ignorant as far as wiring is concerned, I can follow a diagram but that is about it.
So I guess the next question is which relay to use? I haven't really done any electrical stuff so haven't got a clue what to use. Is the relay necessary with all float switches?
I'm only using a maxijet 1200 powerhead, contolled by the float switch, to pump RO from a resevoir, through my kalk stirrer and then into the tank. I just have it wired in series with the mains supply as the load it represents is well within the limit of the switch. Although the maxijet is an inductive load, it does have the necessary filtering to prevent arcing across the read switch, in other words, it works fine!!!
http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
CodeMonkey
18-04-02, 23:22
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So I guess the next question is which relay to use? I haven't really done any electrical stuff so haven't got a clue what to use. Is the relay necessary with all float switches?[/b][/quote]
have a look at the specs for the switch - what you want is something that can switch using the voltage you want to use and can handle the load as well
eg if you are using a relay with 9v switching circuit you will want a relay that can still switch a 240V load.
after you have decided on your switching circuit relay or not you will still need a device that can handle your current at the specified voltage.
Have a look at your pump - it will mention on the side either the current or the wattage. either way with the known voltage of 240V you can fid the other value
now
power (W) = Voltage (V) * Ampage (A) - hence why you will see thing expressed as VA rather than W - why VA well I was told it was because they were specifying a voltage at which this Wattage was applicable.
eg a device could cope with 60VA at 240V but only 10VA at 400V - why? - I think it is to do with dielectric properties of materials and electrical breakdown - lost smae here - this is at the limits of what I remember or think I remember
so for a 0.2A pump (eg 1060 - I think) then you will want a switch/relay that can move a load of (240*0.2) = 48VA minimum - most of us use a safety margin of at least 2 - however 66VA is the best I have seen so far
relays have a tendency to have much better switch ratings and are probably the main reason they are used to switch the main load
thanks for the explanation. I'll pick your brains more when I come round to actually setting this up http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
CodeMonkey
19-04-02, 13:00
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">thanks for the explanation. I'll pick your brains more when I come round to actually setting this up [/b][/quote]
okay - I'll try and respond while sober next time
Last edited by CodeMonkey at April 19 2002,13:15
CodeMonkey
19-04-02, 13:15
just found this
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-03/jg/index.htm
you'll find it useful and it gives circuit diagrams - the diode bridge (redctifier) is for turning the AC into a DC (not smooth though - a capacitor would be useful here) - this is mainly for the relay to work right I think as its DC - however a transformer may work better - smoother - and less power at the float switch
the resistor is there to provide a load so that you do not spark the switch and cause it to fuse.
Last edited by CodeMonkey at April 19 2002,13:16
hey guys http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif i've got one of those RS float switches that i've never got round to using and i was wondering how u have mounted them?
Hi pete. I haven't fitted one but am planning it.. which switch have you got? They have quite a few models.
hi nathan, i've got one of the vertical float switches. if you go to the rs site ans do a quick search on "331-017" if should bring it up.
i'm not to sure about its suitability, i just ordered it oneday and never actualy tryed it...
if i've got CodeMonkey's formula right, my pump is 5w (minijet 404) and the switch is rated at 0.25amps so...
5.04w = 240v*0.021amps
is that correct? that means the pump uses 0.02ish amps? if that is correct the wireing the switch without a relay would be fine yes?
CodeMonkey
23-04-02, 17:59
Hi doh
yup your calculations do seem to be correct these are the float switches I have bought also just conning some leccie engineers I knwo to make up some nice circuitry for me http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
- ps its not my equation I stole it from a bunch of physicists one dark night
robbieowens
24-04-02, 10:59
Does anyone fancy writing an idiots guide to making a float switch ie.
1) get these parts from here
2) connect red wire to x
3) connect other wire to y
etc etc...
Sorry to be stupid but I for one would appreciate the advise?
Thanks
wet weston
25-04-02, 12:09
Excellent idea Robbie, I could do with this sort of help too. Might help to prevent someone form electocuting themselves!!! probably me!!
Anyone want to do this??
CodeMonkey
25-04-02, 12:46
well I am intending on doing this for my tank - so I could write up my adventures when I get round to it - however the links here http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/diycorner/index.htm?once=true& should help most people this is definitely my source material
wet weston
25-04-02, 14:01
Thats an excellent link codemonkey, not seen that one before, although I use that site quite often. Really helps to explain how the relay and mains wiring come together. Thanks.
I have a sump system and use a seperate r/o tank to top up the sump through a kalkwasser reactor. I use a floatless level sensor so no risk of it sticking http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
the probes of which there are 3 ( stainless wire etc is perfect ) are different lengths, one always in the water, one at the minimum level and one at the max level.
When the water drops to the min level it turns on a pump until it reaches the max level. The advantage of having a distinct max and min is it stops the pump going on off all the time with surface ripples.
I usedan Omron floatless level switch 61F-GP.
these are available from http://www.engsurplus.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm#anchor
Based in devon.
They cost £8.
I have mine fused and then 3 wires going to an electrical connector block which only cost pence. This is siliconed to the inside of the sump with the 3 stainless wires dipping down into the liquid. simplicity itself, and cheap.
My system now automatically tops up as reqd with kalkwasser.
wet weston
29-04-02, 09:41
DRC this looks interesting, however looking at the suppliers site they work on 110volts not 240 how have you got around thi?
Welcome to the board by the way.
Spookylight's idea of a wc cistern float sounds interesting. I considered this a while back but couldn't see how to connect the output to the RO unit small tubing? Also wondered if the pressure would be reduced to the RO unit?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Doh @ April 23 2002,15:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">hi nathan, i've got one of the vertical float switches. if you go to the rs site ans do a quick search on "331-017" if should bring it up.
i'm not to sure about its suitability, i just ordered it oneday and never actualy tryed it...[/b][/quote]
just as an update to the above for anyones who is interested, i finaly got round to installing this float switch, is directly connected to a minijet404 and has been running perfectly for 2 weeks http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
my on;y cripe is its not as sensitive as i'd have liked butcan't grumble to much for a tenner http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
philworrall
23-06-02, 21:57
I dont know if all RO units are the same but mine has a standard fitting that screws onto a normal threaded water tap that may be fitted into your garage or utility room for example.
So plumbing:
Assuming you have a suitable container connected to the mains water supply via the ball cock inlet fitting, just like a normal header tank.
Screw the RO input to the ball valve output (the bit that normally drips into the tank).
Feed the clean RO output into the container.
Connect waste pipe to your garden supply or somthing suitable.
The ball valve not shuts off the water to the RO unit when the RO unit has filled the container.
Hope this helps
Codemonkey's solution is indeed utlimate, use the same myself to great effect. IMO RS is both cheap and suitable to the solution domain.
I use tunze bars siliconed to the side ot the tank to mount the switches, anything similar, even braces will be suitable.
Sound Advice.
regards
Nav
Pete, I've just bought one of the switches to control a MJ1000. Did you wire it into the live or neutral wire?? quick reply please before I fry myself http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
hi nathan
dosnet matter which side you connect to the switch both can fry you http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
FWIW IMO id never rig up 230volt to a float switch in the sump..better IMO to use low voltage on it and use a relay to control the pump..much safer http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif
also maplin do the same switch....half the price http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Last edited by reefer at June 27 2002,12:09
yeah doesn't matter which, you may have to turn the float round depends which way its set....
reefers right of course it would be better/safer though a relay, perhaps he could share with us which one would be suitable???
http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
okey dokey doh
im guessing you would rather have maplin part numbers as they are more accessable to the avearage punter..so to speak
12 volt psu..part number...JC92A *£11.05
12volt relay..part number...QC89W *£1.95
small box to house the relay in(wise choice http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif ) LH21X £2.11
all above if you want to run a 230v powerhead or pump etc
you will need to do a small amount of soldering
or option2 http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif *if you want to use it to switch a 12v solenoid..ie to turn on your ro etc *and you do not have a lot of water movement in the sump that causes the switch to bob then use the above omitting the psu for this psu which has a higer rating ..ermm in fact having checked the price diffrence, unless if you are up north and really pinching the pennys http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif *id say go for this one anyway..VN10L...£12.75
DONT BLAME ME IF YOU BLOW YOURSELF UP http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
HTH
also before anyone asks what float switch im using..heres the part number..again maplin...FW40T..£4.27..same ones in RS..double the price http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Last edited by reefer at June 27 2002,16:16
Off to maplins tomorrow, I'll report back and post some piccies of what I put together
Last edited by Nathan at June 27 2002,19:28
wet weston
03-07-02, 11:54
Reefer any chance of a quick diagram of how to wire this, for those of who electrically challenged. Quite happy to wire it up but just want something to reassure me that I've done it the right way!
Thanks.
Last edited by wet weston at July 03 2002,11:55
Hi, just to let you know I've undertaken the project reefer describes and it works wonderfully *http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
here's a piccy of the relay with connections made (before you critisise, this is the first bit of soldering I've ever done http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif ):
http://photoweb.brinkster.net/ultimate/connections1.jpg
The pics before I put the heatshrink on to insulate it.
I've actually redone it since - long story, but don't get water on it after you've plugged it in *http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif It's all wired up to a MJ1000 and seems to be working really well.
Anyway here's the kit list I used:
Relay FJ43 - about 2.50. the one reefer suggested isn't kept in stock at my local
Little black box - LH21 - just needs a couple of holes drilling
Float switch was one I got from RS, but maplins have them for about £4
Last edited by Nathan at July 03 2002,16:57
glad it worked for you nathan
one word of warning tho..normal heatshrink is not intended to insulate 230v upwards...it does tho!
so what im saying is dont go waving around your relay when your holding it by the heatshrink..as it is a thin wall and can easly be damaged from a sharp piece of wire, solder etc
its really there to add a small amount of restraint to the soldered joint and just in case you touch the connection by accident
just thought id better say that http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif
HTH
cya
Last edited by reefer at July 17 2002,23:53
This is driving me nuts...
I've fitted a brass high pressure ball valve to my RO storage tank in the loft - same arrangement as in header tanks or WC cisterns. As per Spookylights suggestion the mains supply goes into the ball valve inlet as usual and the RO input is screwed into the ball valves output. The RO output feeds into the storage tank. In theory the supply to the RO should cut off when the tahk is full.
As the RO output fills up the tank the float ball rises and starts to shut off the supply to the RO unit. So far so good. When the supply is nearly shut off the arm and float ball sink thus opening up the supply. From this point the supply (understandably) never shuts off.
Can anyone explain what's happening? It's like the pressure builds up and forces the float back down. The ball valve was from B&Q (Plumbfit 1/2 Pt 2 (S/E H/P)). I've tried bending the arm to increase the pressure from the float but made no difference.
Sounds more like a small hole in the float. As the float rises, it slowly takes in water, until the pressure at the inlet side of the valve is greater than the force being applied by the float. If you empty the tank, the float drains it's water and the cycle starts over again.
Suggest you remove the float and hold it under water, turning it over and around to see if there's a hole in it, probably underneath or up the side.
Let us know how you get on, as I'm going down B&Q tomorrow and I'll have a look at this valve.
HTH
Mark.
Pretty sure there is no hole in the float but will check tomorrow. I have the supply on an isolating tee. If I turn this tee off, the float will then rise - I think because this releases the build up of pressure. I can stop the supply by manually holding the float - also doing this when turning off the tee I can feel the drop in pressure. Maybe if got a low pressure valve by mistake?
Just on update on the idea of using a cistern\header tank type ball valve plumbed to an RO unit.
Nice idea but don't bother - it doesn't work.
The problem is basically that the back pressure from the RO is too much for the ball valve - the float ball will stay submerged rather than rising to shut off the RO. After asking on a DIY newsgroup I checked it was mains pressure rated and even tried a bigger ball and a longer arm for the float. That worked but the force burst the internal rubber diaphram after a few days.
Back to using a Kent float valve which works but has to be bled of air occasionally to stop the waste from running.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ReefAnon @ Sep. 17 2002,20:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just on update on the idea of using a cistern\header tank type ball valve plumbed to an RO unit.
Nice idea but don't bother - it doesn't work.
The problem is basically that the back pressure from the RO is too much for the ball valve - the float ball will stay submerged rather than rising to shut off the RO. After asking on a DIY newsgroup I checked it was mains pressure rated and even tried a bigger ball and a longer arm for the float. That worked but the force burst the internal rubber diaphram after a few days.
Back to using a Kent float valve which works but has to be bled of air occasionally to stop the waste from running.[/b][/quote]
That doesn't make sense.
If the RO unit is fed directly from the mains water pipe, (which feeds the rest of your house and so your toilet cisterns) then how come it (the outlet from the RO) is now at a higher pressure, if anything it will be the same or slightly less (unless you are pumping it)
Last edited by Paul B at Sep. 17 2002,23:20
It's late but I'll try and explain...
The RO is fed mains water via the ball valve outlet. In normal use such a ball valve (like in a toilet cistern) would be receiving mains pressure in BUT would have no back pressure on the outlet - cos there's nothing attached to it. In this scenario the ballvalve is kind of sandwiched between mains pressure in and RO backpressure out. Something I know now it's not designed to do.
Is that any clearer?
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ReefAnon @ Sep. 18 2002,01:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's late but I'll try and explain...
The RO is fed mains water via the ball valve outlet. In normal use such a ball valve (like in a toilet cistern) would be receiving mains pressure in BUT would have no back pressure on the outlet - cos there's nothing attached to it. In this scenario the ballvalve is kind of sandwiched between mains pressure in and RO backpressure out. Something I know now it's not designed to do.
Is that any clearer?[/b][/quote]
Right, I see, I assumed that the ball valve was being fed from the RO unit and so the outlet went straight into the tank.
Why therefore can't you do it the way I've assumed it was being done?
I'd have much preferred to do it that way. Main problems are:
1] the waste would run continously
2] the membrane would get worn out much quicker as untreated water is still going through it when the output is shut off.
My goal was to cut off the supply to the RO when the tank was full so that both treated and waste lines would stop.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ReefAnon @ Sep. 19 2002,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'd have much preferred to do it that way. Main problems are:
1] the waste would run continously
2] the membrane would get worn out much quicker as untreated water is still going through it when the output is shut off.
My goal was to cut off the supply to the RO when the tank was full so that both treated and waste lines would stop.[/b][/quote]
Good point about the RO waste, looks like you will have to settle for a float and valve or pump.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ReefAnon @ Sep. 19 2002,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'd have much preferred to do it that way. Main problems are:
1] the waste would run continously
2] the membrane would get worn out much quicker as untreated water is still going through it when the output is shut off.
My goal was to cut off the supply to the RO when the tank was full so that both treated and waste lines would stop.[/b][/quote]
It's just occurred to me.........why don't you put the ball valve between the mains supply & the RO unit...........some ball valves have an outlet connection on them so put the feed to the RO onto that then the RO outlet back to the tank......bit messy but if that's the wya you want to do it?
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned under this topic, but rs components do HIGH POWER horizontal float switches which will run on 240v 0.42a ac or 50v 4a dc. The 228-1986 nylon & 228-1992 polyprop.
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