Dsb v live rock

[Glenn'n'Emm]

Hi guys

At the moment i have *72"x24"x24" tank in which i am proposing to house fish only initially with a move to inverts as i gain experience.

I had originally thought only about lr and skimming but reading a lot of the threads in here people are using DSBs and lr and skimming etc.

My tank is full of water and the sump is up and running although i cant afford the fish and lr yet.

Is it worth me incorporating a DSB in the sump at this stage and if so who has the recipe for what i need to do?

Ive seen people talking bout play sand, glass beads, argomax, etc, 3 - 5" depth, etc. *what I would like to try and find out is how you know what to provide and is there any literature available which discusses this issue?

I did a search on here and unfortunately there was a lot of hits, but it was difficult to find some hard data about what needs to be done.

Any help appreciated.

Glenn



Last edited by Glenn'n'Emm at Sep. 20 2002,09:35

[Suffolk Reefer]

Hi Glenn,

FWIW, there is no right or wrong way for you to go. *I have just set up my system pondering the very same thoughts.

I decided in the end that I would go down the dsb and lr route, having my dsb in the main tank.

I found this link to be very useful, which was kindly done by Swayze, it was a big help to me -

http://www.ultimatereef.net/cgi-bin/ibv3/ikonboard.cgi?


Incidently, what makes you think that keeping a fish only system will be any easier than a reef. *Many on this board will argue that fish only systems are just as complicated. Once you have good parameters, (you will still need these for fish only) you should then be able to keep many types of mushrooms and soft corals etc with little problems.

You did not mention if you used an ro/di unit for the tank water. *If not, this should be the first piece of equipment you consider purchasing. *again Q & A are on the above link.

HTH, and good luck in what ever approach you choose

Regards

Paul



Last edited by Suffolk Reefer at Sep. 20 2002,20:32

[MadSi]

Hi Glenn,

You've posted in the wrong forum m8 but i'm sure the kind mods will move it over http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

To answer your question, Simon Garratt did a nice introduction to DSB's which should answer all your questions.

http://website.lineone.net/~espsrg/dsb_s_&_live_rock.htm

Any questions after that, fire away http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Cheers

Si

[kim]

Everything I've seen suggests that the DSB is a supplement to LR - ie LR first, DSB is a useful add-on (and possibly a fun one, too).

Of course, this might simply be because the hobby developed this way. We know that LR without DSB works, because so many of us keep reefs with LR and no DSB - but has anyone tried DSB without LR ?

To be honest, DSB's sound fun, but LR is the prettier, more exciting (play catch the mantis shrimp etc.) filtration system so come what may, I'd use LR if limited to one. LR can be "grown" over here if cost is a big issue - just needs plain porous rock (a little care....) and some seeding with a little real LR. Like a smaller plant, it may take longer to grow but sounds like you have the patience.

And if you are heading for inverts, well you need rocks to hold them at different depths, in different flows - gonna need some rocks of some sort I think. Isn't the issue how much of this rock is "real" LR and how much is just rock, to begin with ? Done right, it all ends up live so long as you have just a little "seed". Quick and expensive or slower and cheaper.

If you have room for a DSB in the sump, it might be a good idea to start it when gathering LR. It will take time to mature and shouldn't add much expense. Do it in parallel.

Another link for your collection ! Do a search on how to make your own live rock.

http://rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm

kim

[Glenn'n'Emm]

Thanks for your responses

It is helping and ill take the time to look at the links when I get a mo.

With regards buying dead rock and seeding it/combining it with live rock what sort of rock is suitable for turning inot live rock?

Anyway must go, chores to ber done, and Emma is hoovering so I must go take my turn at the housework too.Thanks for all your help folks.

Glenn

[gman]

Hi
I would go for Grotto Rock.Nice and porous and very light in weight.stay away from ocean rock, far too heavy and dense and displaces lots of water.You can get grotto rock from Uk Marines cheap just go and pick your own bits also some nice l/r in at the moment £5.50 lb,still curing needs another week.
Cheers Graham http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kim]

I think folks also use tufa - soft so easy to shape.

What is needed is something nice and porous to act as a host for the anaerobic bacteria deep within. Also, something which won't leech nasties into the tank. Even a slow leaching will be disasterous. So might be worth buying from an aquatic store if they can guarantee this and understand the process.

Either man made or natural......

[Glenn'n'Emm]

Thought I had rerad somewhere that tuffa has a habit of absorbing nasties and then releasing them back into a system at some later date with dire consequences. Did I get that wrong?

I had a look at some of the site detailed below, thanks guys they give a lot more info than I had before. Maybe ill play around with my sump and include a DSB in there. Still until I get some lr Im still at a holding stage at the moment.

Still when completed itll look a bit better than itdoes now, most people who have seen it with some framework for lr and the water think its some kind of Damien Hurst art!!

[Northern Man]

Hi Glenn, I've just bought some dry "live rock" from a shop in Germany (arrives today) - it is imported by a company called Corapet and is genuine coral rock - ideal for bringing back to life by seeding with a small amount of live stuff. Here's a link to the site, look under decoration/stones/aquaristic.tec

http://www.aquaristic.net

From my experience of grotto rock the structure is too open and is unlikely to support anaerobic activity in the same way as live rock and the large holes have a tendency to trap detritus. I have never used tufa but, as you mentioned, a lot of people have reported problems with it.

Hope this help,
Mike.

[Stevielad]

So Northern Man - what you think of the non-live soon to be seeded rock you ordered - any good?

[philworrall]

Can I suggest that for those who think that </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">LR first, DSB is a useful add-on (and possibly a fun one, too)[/b][/quote]

may not be quite as fun as you may think. You may have to remove all the rock from the tank if you are having a DSB in the tank - sounds like lots of work and wet carpets to me - "no dear i won't spill anything on the carpet" - Ha.

There are a few threads that have already discussed this topic do a search on DSB's e.g.

just my opinion

hope it helps

cheers

[MadSi]

Phil,

Not really. I originally had just rock in my tank. I then decided to add the DSB after everything semi settled down & just simply added the sand afterwards - you've seen the tank so know it's worked for me http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Cheers

Si

[fishman]

just added the sand myself to give it a go , mature 6yr old tank,FISHMAN... http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[kim]

I was thinking of a DSB in the sump - I think Phil has a good point if the in-tank route is what you prefer or need.

But Phil, why are carpets absorbent if not for the odd spot of TropicMarin and red wine ? You have to keep the pile fed with trace elements from time to time, you know.

http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

kim