Cabinet - number of supports

[kim]

I've done searches, visited the sites (good few hits today Si ?) but not yet there. I will not be building my cabinet myself - if it fails I'll have a hole in the floor, squash the Ferrari and flood the garage. But I need to specify to a joiner who doesn't specialise in these things (he needs to eat...).

Tank about 80 gallons, 375 litres, 4.5' x 2' x 2'. It seems common practice that the top and bottom frames be made from 2"x4". I am planning 4 cross beams top and bottom for rigidity (ie two end beams plus two additional). Then 3"x3" legs (as per Si, and seems in line with stuff elsewhere.

The legs will "sit" on the bottom frame so that the latter distribute load over a wooden floor and a few joists. Hence additional cross beams - I really want this thing to resist twisting and for a few feet of timber....

Do you think I need a "middle support, or will corner legs suffice ?

kim

[simon garratt]

Hi Kim.

As long as the legs are fastned strongly enough in a way that stops the possibility of lean/tilt then no you shouldnt need a center brace. especially if your using good quality 2x4 for the top and bottom frame rails. If you use a top panel of about 1" thick, this will also be very strong over the 4.5' length. it will add a bit of weight, but its well worth it IMO.

cheers

SI.


Ps.....squashed Ferrari..........dont worry, i can allways give you a lift in the Tuscan...... http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ........I wish. http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blush.gif

[bunglehaze]

just as a point of query to this thread, I am currently building my new cabinet as a modified version of si's from the site, because the tank is panoramic with quite large side panels I have used initiative by increasing the amount of legs to hold it. Just wondering though, because of the type of cabinet and the limited room already for equipment and its abnormal shape I have used high grade 3x2 as the legs. These are fastened with 12 screws on each leg from both external beams(as per site) and I have used some extra to double up on certain joists for added support, what do you think of the choice of timber size in relation to the amount of legs to take the load? the tank is 5x2x2 panoramic.

cheers
leigh http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

ps . please dont tell me its a bad idea, I have worked sooooo hard http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif - unless it really is that is!

[simon garratt]

Hi Leigh.

If you've doubled up on the supports/legs, i cant see a problem myself. After all, 6, 4x2 legs are just as strong as 4, 3x3s.

cheers

Si.

PS any chance of some pics then folks? http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[bunglehaze]

thanks si, im in the process of building the cabinet at the mo but unfortunately my borrowed digicam has run out of juice and it only takes 10 shots per 4 batteries(absoloutly s@#t) as soon as I remember to pick some more up ill send the pics thru


cheers
leigh http://www.ultimatereef.net/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Glenn'n'Emm]

Like some of you I have built my own tank stand for my 72x24x24. I have posted a link to some piccies but since the web addy is at work and Im not at the mo i cant point you there to have a look.

Anyway my stand has 8x 4"x2" legs as per the original desing i got from a web site, with these screwed and glued to the 4x2 base and top.

without going into complex maths the weight carried by each leg is around 180 pounds assumng a simplifying assumption that the weight is equally distributed, which in my case it isnt quite.

In compression timber is extremely strong, cant remember the correct figures for joinery grade timber but i dont worry bout it. Its been up and full of water for a couple of months now and isnt showing any signs of falling over.

I did go beyond the design from the plans I got and added some cross braces at either end and along the front and rear. there are three braces across the width and one for the base as per the original plans i had. Dont ask where i got the plans from cause i cant remeber, sorry

Cant see you need more than this level of design for 80 gallons. whilst i cant say i spent ages looking at the tank stands of this size due to the exorbitant price, but a lot of them are made from relativley cheap timber, typically some form of composite board.

[kim]

Thanks folks,

I sniffed around some cabinets at an LFS y'day. Even for pretty substantial tanks (eg 70 gallons) they had no timber carcass -just vertical pieces of ply providing the supports. Then again, the cabinets had shelves and central dividers etc. which I guess adds a lot to the rigidity and therefore strength. I suspect we all go over the top for strength - but it's the right side of wrong to be.

kim

[philworrall]

I think we all over engineer our home made tank bases. It is of course better to be safe than sorry.
However, for me rigidity is the most important when constructing a base for a tank.

Ordinary white softwood can take a load of about 1000 lb per square inch (I am told). This single peice of wood could support most tanks of up to 100 gallons. It may however punch a 1" square hole in your floor and flood your Ferrari (Kim).

Hence spreading the load is important also.

Providing the top of the base is not flexible four legs should be sufficient.

BUT, do you feel lucky, do you punk.

http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I didn't, I put 6 on mine
http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif

cheers

[kim]

I was planning a rigid (ie 4x2 timber) bottom frame into which the legs sat, making the bottom frame load bearing and supporting ! Thus proper joints rather than metalwork (screws, nails) to transfer the weight (i) over the maximum number of joists in my floor and (ii) as evenly as possibly over the wooden floor surface.

Well, I popped round to the joiner this pm - and his take, having thought for a while, is that he doesn't need a supporting framework, he'll just make a box from MDF but probably double-skinned. I've left him some weights and measures, emphasised that it's rigidity as well as load-bearing that counts (tanks don't flex.....) and he'll come back next week.

I think that he knows his stuff (and he'll consult with colleagues). My concern is whether over time MDF could degrade with the humidity and occasional splashing inside the sump. I think splashing can be kept to a minimum, but even so.....

kim

[bunglehaze]

kim im trying to upload my digi pics of my work in progress, mine is panelled in mdf but painted with satin finish gloss for waterproofing! I dont think degrading is likely as long as it is sufficiently waterproofed.

ill get the pics up asap

cheers
leigh http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[bunglehaze]

here we go, first lot of outside of cabinet and tank with coat 1 of paint just finished!, i will get some of the inside supposts and construction as soon as the paint has dried!


cheers
leigh http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[bunglehaze]

side view

[bunglehaze]

and my helpers !





cheers
leigh http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
ps if anyone wants any husky pups I will have some due in about April next year http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[bunglehaze]

here you go, one of the inside of the cabinet, its a little sawdusty but at 1:45am im not likely to turn on the dyson.


cheers
leigh http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kim]

Leigh, thanks a lot.

Looks like you are light years ahead of me !

Rats....

http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

kim

[bunglehaze]

kim, I finish work at around 9pm at the mo and as soon as I get home I start building again! wouldn't be so bad but all I do all day is paint and build anyway. I need the tank to be ready and setup for the 15th november cos me and the mrs are going to monte carlo for the weekend so I need to make sure everything is in full working order first.
Still waiting for my sump and ocean runner pump so far and I need to finish off the trim round the tank, fix on the door handles and then plumb everything in so im not too far off so far.
The main thing really is I am selling my old tank and stand to pay for this one and at the moment it still has all my livestock in it so the sooner I get setup the sooner the rest of the stuff will come


cheers
leigh http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[RichUK]

I looked at lots of cabinets for my 6x2x2 tank and decided I didn't want to spend £000's on a tank I probably wouldn't like anyway.

attached are a couple of pics of progress so far, hopefully it will be finished by Sunday!

[kim]

Some very solid looking timbers there !

My cabinet maker came back with a quote (eeeeeeeeeek ! ) and still proposes no "frame" - just a box made from MDF. Which worries me given humidity etc...... I have to go round to see him (again..). I'd be much happier with a frame like yours, covered with MDF. Maybe not 100 % necessary, but I'd sleep better.

Look fwd to the next post,

kim

[RichUK]

Total cost of this stand will be £150 and that includes a 10" hood to fir light tubes etc.

I have lots of plans if you want them?

[simon garratt]

Hi Kim....

Ref no frame.....Bad idea IMO considering the condensation factor (as you quite correctly stated). The big problem you have with this, is that the water can get into the MDF from inside. This causes the panel to swell on the inside but not the outside where it is still dry. Net effect is that the panel bends out, away from the tank at the bottom and the top and inwards at the center. Abit like a playing card up on end. While strait its able to support a lot of weight......Once its got a bend it gets weaker and weaker the worse the bend gets untill it collapses on itself and folds up.....

I know you can water proof the MDF using a polyurathane boat varnish, but even this isnt 100% reliable if water gets between joints and then soaks upwards through the panel........


Go for a frame support IMO,,,,youll feel happyer in the long run, without the possible risks of a panick situation later.

Regards

Si.

[narthur]

http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[clegggs]

ive built my cabinet from 16mm ply no frame all glued and screwed and its very sturdy oh yeah its for 5x2x2 and water resistant http://www.ultimatereef.com/ibv3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif