View Full Version : Powder Blue Surgeon
simon garratt
24-03-03, 09:53
Hi Folks. Well here we are again and its time to kick off on a new topic so we're giong to start with an old fave of many people the Powder Blue Tang. Ill kick off with some of the usual stuff and then its your turn to add your experiances and tips. Ill leave the post up till the end of each month with a fresh one in the first week of the following month. If youve got any special requests then just PM me and i'll see what i can dredge up.
so here she is. :)
Genus: Acanthuridae
Species: Leucosternon.
Habitat: Indo Pacific, mainly found in more open reef areas rather than surge zones where grazing algae is plentifull, Commonly found in large groups.
Size: 10" wild 7-8" captivity.
Requirements : A 'large' tank 150gall + is essential for this fish with good circulation, high levels of disolved O2, and plenty of swimming space. Its skittish and sometimes aggressive nature means that both itself and other tank inhabitants have adequate hiding places to keep out of each others way when tempers become freyed. Good water quality along the lines of normal reef keeping quality are essential to avoid stress which will quickly induce cases of whitespot, in which case a cleaner shrimp is invaluble for continued support.
Reef compatibility: Generally well behaved, but can pick at some feathery invertibrates such as feather dusters etc.
Feeding: large amounts of green foodstufs are essential for good health such as Nori, or natural sea weed after freezing. But they will also accept most smaller marine foods and flake.
Tank mates: Normally only a single specimin should be housed even in large systems as this fish displays quite a territorial nature in captivity. Housing with other acanthurus species that carry similar markings will quite often lead to agression, ie Gold rimmed, Achillese tangs. although they have been combined on occasions.
Breeding: Not bred in captivity as yet. In the wild these fish will usually pair up at breeding time, when two fish will rise up from the group into higher water and swim together in a darting motion. Its during this dart, that eggs and sperm are ejected together to drift off in the water column.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/Powder4.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/Powder1.jpg
There ya go folks.........so come on. give us some input and some more picks, even your experiences, likes and dislikes.
Regards
Si. :)
Lovely Fish and the wife has been psetering me to get one - I always thought they were a no no in a reef tank - Ask Clayton cos the one he had in the display tank at the London Aquarium was causing havoc.
Also my tank is not big enough IMHO.
Anyway, great pics Simon! The wild fish appear to be a much richer blue colour than the fish I have seen in LFS's or pics on here? Is that just the pics/lighting or perhaps a wild diet is better than what we are dishing up?
Anyway, they are fab fish and if I ever get to set up another Fish Only system, this fish will beon the wish list!!
Mode :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :D
simon garratt
24-03-03, 10:22
Hi Mode.
Ref colouration. Yes diet is a very important factor in this fish. the better fed they are (occasional Vitamin suppliments) the deeper that blue becomes untill some specimins show a distict blue/purple body. It really is an amazing colour when up against the sun yellow/orange of the dorsal fin.
Im of the opinion with this and the closely related Gold rimmed, that you can tell how happy the fish is by looking at the chest area. In healthy/content fish, this area is a brilliant white, whereas it gets a dull grey tint if the fish is unhappy or not well.
Regards
Si.
Garry thomas
24-03-03, 12:36
Si this has got to be one of my fav fish, although i have a very nice one at the moment, in the past it's not been an easy task IE: whitespot city, but i have a theory on the p/b having what looks like whitespot. i persoally believe that its not always w/s but a susceptability to nemacysyst stings in a well stocked reef aquarium. Also it is a no no trying to keep 2sps of acanthurus together unless in, spacious surroundings, but even then you can run into difficulties? My last p/b was sliced open when in the bag aclimatising, by my large and boisterous sohal. The p/b avoided the sohal for a while but sadly died although it's wounds heaed up. Take 2....... sohal gone and a juvenile lineatus in place, small p/b added, it took 7 to 8 weeks for the clown tang to fully except and stop harassing , the powder blue. It's now put weight on and is a truly stunning example of this breed. He's now got the correct markings of a p/b IE black not grey nose and that stunning blue body.
Yes, indeed a lovely fish but a real pain in the ass in my case.
I put 10 juveniles into a 4,000l system, they fought continually, had cryptokarion as a result and I ended up with just 1 2 months later - not my finest hour! The one left immediately cleared up and looked fantastic - and then proceeded to kill a juvenile lineatus and sailfin Tang.
He was a very popular fish with the public as he looked in such superb condition, this was probably due to his healthy diet of coral, 2 species of acropora had their tips removed, xenia was nailed and a large area of bright green star polyps was polished off!!
But the story does have a happy ending (well for me anyway), after 3 weeks trying and to much appluase of a gathered crowd, with the aid of a faithfull Trap-Eze the little SOB was caught and confined to a sump. :P :P :P :ph34r:
Stunning fish, i've had mine since just B4 he looks stunning.
If I was to give any advice....make it your last fish to go in your tank. PB's are extremely terratorial, especially to any new additions which they will persecute...sometimes to the death
Regards
Andy
DemLotCrew
25-03-03, 15:16
Mr G Simon what would you say to be the min size of tank to keep this fish in?
Thanks
simon garratt
25-03-03, 22:07
Hi DLC......
Erm.........try 'reading' the post rather than looking at the pretty pics.... ;) 150gall+
Regards
Si.
:)
150gall+
Thats why I haven't got one! :( :(
One day, one day I will have a 1000 gallon tank and the reef world will be mine!!
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA (evil Emperor Ming type laugh!!) :angry: :ph34r: :angry: :ph34r: :blink:
DemLotCrew
27-03-03, 17:27
yup simon quite right will do in future.
Garry thomas
27-03-03, 17:50
This is not a good picture, but it shows my clown tang, finally living side by side, by my powder blue.http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/feeding fish.JPG
I saw loads of these in the maldives last year, probably one of the most numerous fish in the shallow parts, but never managed to get a good picture of one complete................so heres two halfs
The front
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/pbf.JPG
And the back
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/pbb.JPG
:rolleyes:
Garry
What fish is that in your pic below the anthias?
Garry thomas
28-03-03, 09:45
Mandy thats mr milky, he's a box fish. ostracion cubicus i have had him for 2 years, grew him up from the size of a pea, and he has never pecked any corals or clams<<<<<<YET>>>>>>>>>!
I thought it was a boxfish!
Blimey you are lucky, I thought they were a definate no no in a reef setup. They are highly toxic aren't they?
Garry thomas
28-03-03, 12:47
Yes mand, allegedly. Although i have never heard of a tank wipeout because of the fish!
simon garratt
30-03-03, 13:33
Hi Folks. many thanks for the input so far (especially those, who kept to the actual species this thread is about ;) )
Clayton.......Pleased you caught the little SOB after all that.
Jevs. make it your last fish to go in your tank. Good advice there methinks, even small ones can be quite bossy........
Any more takers with notes on behavour, habits, tricks and methods? or just pics with details.
Regards
Si. :) :)
brightonreefer
30-03-03, 16:13
My pb lives with a small 3'' adult coloration majestic in a 100g tank.
I don't plan to put in any more fish, just some corals to go with my 2 clams.
He is about 5' long and brightly coloured and intact.
I wouldn't say he is as clever as the majestic, who can keep an eye on what goes on around him all over the room (a sudden gesture at about 10 meters from the tank never goes unnoticed) and can oversee everything from his retreat, but he is a goodlooking fish.
My tank has lots of water movement as well as live rock and he loves being pushed about by the water jets all over the place. I would say eatingwise he prefers a mixture of veg and animal foods, but in comparison with other tangs I had (chtenochaetus), I would say he relishes animal foods (mysis, cocles, dillis, octopus, mussels etc.) more than veg, although he likes those too.
He is particularly fond of emerald entree. He has a relatively small mouth so he prefers his bits of nori carefully chopped up.
I use garlic elixir and so-far no problems, touch wood.
Cheers,
Brightonreefer
Garry thomas
31-03-03, 10:55
Simon sorry if i went off threadv m8, just answering a little question for mandy. What do you reckon on the nemacyst stings theory?
I've had my P/Blue for 2 weeks added as my last fish along side:
Lemonpeel
Firefishx2
Tilefishx2
Watchman goby
Pyjama Wrasse
Scarlet Hawkfish
Midas blenny
He seems to be enjoying himself apart from having a dappling of White!!!
He grazes and eats the frozen food i add but he WILL NOT touch the dried seaweed I put in on a clip...I've even tried turning off all the power heads to reduce the movement in case he was scareded! Is this normal?
All my fish, including PB, yellow and regal tangs and flame angel are petrified when I put nori in the tank...it's actually quite funny to watch as they take a very wide birth of a sheet of nori....i'll try breaking it up into small 1cm pieces and feed it at the same time as flake !!!
Andy
simon garratt
01-04-03, 00:43
Hi Garry.
[/QUOTE]What do you reckon on the nemacyst stings theory? [QUOTE]
Sorry garry youve lost me there.....just refresh my memory and i might be able to help.?
regards
Si. :)
Garry thomas
01-04-03, 12:57
Originally posted by Garry thomas@Mar 24 2003, 12:36
whitespot city, but i have a theory on the p/b having what looks like whitespot. i persoally believe that its not always w/s but a susceptability to nemacysyst stings in a well stocked reef aquarium.
I think the p/b whitespot is mistaken to a susceptability to nemacyst stings?
simon garratt
04-04-03, 00:04
Hi Garry.
Yes, to a cirtain degree i think this may be true, but not so much in an open water sence..(ie stray nomatacysts)....Tangs have a habit of grazing around and under the branches of various corals where it is very common that algae grows around the base/trunk of the coral. I dont think its so much the acro's that cause probs, but more the LPS corals such as Frogspawns,Bubbles,Torch, and hammer corals. My Kole tang cant stay away from my Sinuosa bubble (gets an occasional whack down its flank from a stray sweeper) although its not too much of a problem as long as the fish has a good mucous coating and is otherwise healthy.......Ive also noticed this habit with other tangs as well........It may be that the Powder Blue, Achillese, and Goldrimmed Tangs suffer worse from this kind of accidental damage due to their more aggressive/jostling grazing tacticks, and incredibly small scales that provide less protection that other fish get from having larger scales.
Regards
Si. :)
I am a relative newcomer to the hobby (18 months). I'm setting up a 6' tank and considering putting in either a Powder Brown or a Powder Blue Surgeon. Can anyone advise which would be the easier to keep?
Jasmine
simon garratt
07-04-03, 07:58
Hi Jasmine.
Personal opinion would be to go for the powder brown (or more commonly called the Gold Rimmed Tang) Although the two are very closely related, Ive seen marginally better succcess with the gold rimmed, and although not as immediatly visually strking, it is a real gem in its own right. I would also give it a slightly better score when it comes to behavour with other fish as they seem a little more laid back.
Just my preferance, but I feel the Goldrimmed is a very underated fish that many are surprised at, when they see one that has settled in.........Very pretty fish. :)
Regards
Si. :)
Thanks for the guidance Si! I can't wait to get my tank up and running so that I can get one.
Jas
Hi all
I know Simon said 150g+ ;) , is that total water volume or volume of main tank?
I will have about 150 when I am finished with sumps, dsb's and refugiums but the main tank is 4ft long, 18" wide and 24" tall.
Is that too small?
Cheers
Jim
Personally, I'd say that's too small. They need a lot of swimming room, and depriving them of this will probably stress them, and maybe induce the white spot they're notorious for suffering from.
simon garratt
08-04-03, 19:10
Hi Jimbo.
Yes, I would agree with preds. 6x2x2 is an ideal minimum IMO. Anthing smaller and you run the risk of hightened agression towards other tank mates and increased stress which can ultimately lower the fishes defences against parasites such as WS. You may be able to keep a small one for a short period in a 4ft tank, but as with most marine fish, they grow very quickly, to the degree that what starts off as a 3-4" fish, soon turnes into a 6+" rampaging bull in under 6months.
Regards
Si. :)
Garry thomas
26-04-03, 19:22
Simon are we having a fish of the month for April :lol: :P
simon garratt
08-06-03, 23:56
No but your getting one for June......... ;)
Regards
si.
PS. Sorry for the delay folks but im sure your aware things have been a bit hectic of late. :D
BEVS OASIS
17-06-03, 22:45
lovely fish absolutly buitiful
but i HATE them now ;)
this is due party to me and my lfs
i bought a nice 7 inch one placed it in my tank 48 x 18 x 22 :D
didnt like my regal :angry:
big fight :ph34r:
massive outbreak of ik :blink:
lost all fish :angry: :angry: :angry:
and all this cos misses liked it :wub: :wub:
im collecting a powder blue tommorow and now s***ing a brick, i didnt realise they wont such big tank my tank is about 60-70 gallons, its is small max 3" i think.
there is a lot of swiming space in my tank so i hope he be ok. i have a tang in there now "purple body yellow tail" cant remeber real name he he, maybe they wont fight maybe they will i hope they are ok i will keep you all posted on my good or bad luck and even pics.
Last time I had a marine tank I had a Powder Blue, a Regal and A yellow Tang all in a 50 gallon tank. Never had any problems. They were there about a year before I packed the tank up. Don't know what all the fuss is about!! Maybe I was lucky!
Well guys,
I've had PBS's all my marine days (I started in the late 80's when we used UGF's and External filters.
I had a 4ft x 18" x 12" and had a Yellow Tang and a PBS in it.
They argued, showed spines, but never really fought.
When my YT died of old age (well it was about 6 YO) the PBs died within weeks, but with no apparent disease (maybe it was lonely :wub: )
I fed them on Krill, and (in the beginning before time) I fed them lettuce. Then after I restarted in 2000 I fed them Nori. They absolutely love the blinking stuff (often taking it from my hand).
I've just lost my PBS :( today due to another inhabitant dying (a wrasse who had the audacity to dive into the sand THEN die!) :ph34r: Do you think I could find the bugger!!!!!!!
anyway IME they are not nitrite tolerant! :blink:
Im currently setting up a trigon 350, so they're in a small tank with just a fluval 304 and in tank DSB.
I know, but I don't know anybody local who could take them!
I've had my PB for a month now, extremely happy with it, just a quick observation on colour. I find that the darkness of the black face on my PB is a good indicator of it's "mood". When first introduced it used to squabble a lot with my Foxface, which although on the recieving end at first now seems to have gained the upper hand, during these squabbles the black face of the Pb was a more greyish colour. When it is swimming around unmolested and feeding without interference it's face is a really velvety dark black.
Cheers, Dave.
Here we go. Iv had this about twelve weeks and it eats like a horse, anything and everything. What a cracker!
nice speciman what size tank is he in? did he contract white spot at first this is what puts me off buying one nick
Hi Nick, he’s in a 110-gallon tank. He did get ich but this is because my big angel kept dogging him. I just turned up the ozone and fed him garlic for three weeks & that fixed it.
I have found that he is more susceptible to ich when the salinity is a bit low. When I ran the tank at 1.023, a two-gallon water change done a bit quickly would bring on the ich.
I have learnt my lesson now. I now run the tank at 1.026-1.027 and I have no more problems. Since I increased the salinity every one of the fish has improved no end. Better colour, appetite & growing faster. Also the bubble tip loves the salinity at the high end, it has more than doubled in size in eight weeks!
Jim
Hi,
I dont post here very often but there seems to be a great deal of information here on Powder blues so I thought I wuold share my dilemma with you all.
I currently have a 100 gallon system with 30 gallon sump. In the new year I will be setting up a 220 gallon sytem with an Achilles tang as its centerpiece. Unfortunately my plans seem to have gone astray :angry:
whilst i was preparing for the delivery of the new tank (somewhere around the 18th December) I was offered a POwder blue that was slowly recovering from some damage caused by a rockfall. The person no longer wanted the fish and was closing the tank down. The Powder Blue was being kept in an 18inch hospital tank and was recovering well. I took the fish as i didnt like seeing it kept in such small conditions and its now florishing in my main system.
However... My LFS has now rang me and told me that i can collect the Achilles i have been after when i am ready. :unsure: They have got the fish far too early as the tank is not setup or ready yet. My dillema is this.. will these 2 tangs ever get long in the 220 gallon? This tank was designed for the Achilles and if the Powder Blue wont accept it then It ruins all my plans. I dony like the idea of the Achilles being kept in an 18 inch holding tank at the lfs whilst i get the main tank up and running. If i place it in the 100 gallon then i really dont know what the outcome would be.. I have a 30 gallon sump (i mean the main section is 30 gallon not including its partitions) where i could hold him for a short while (but my macro algaes are in here... Or i do have an empty Vision 180 that could be filled up i guess..
If it comes down to choice then I will get rid of the powder blue as it was not on my wish list in the first place (although it is a stunning fish).
I would greatly appreciate your input on this
Hi and welcome. One option would be tell the lfs you’re not ready for it yet. If they got if far sooner than you requested there’s not much they can do. I have no experience keeping these two together but would have thought if they look totally different you may be ok, but I don’t know. I am quite sure someone with experience of these will tell you soon enough.
jim
The Powder Blue has been rehomed. Shame though cos its a stunning fish. Perhaps in the 220 they would be ok but its simply too risky and they can do alot of damage
heres a photo i took recently in the maldives, they really are the most striking fish even in the wild
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/powders.JPG
Originally posted by Navarre@Dec 10 2004, 14:01
Hi,
I dont post here very often but there seems to be a great deal of information here on Powder blues so I thought I wuold share my dilemma with you all.
I currently have a 100 gallon system with 30 gallon sump. In the new year I will be setting up a 220 gallon sytem with an Achilles tang as its centerpiece. Unfortunately my plans seem to have gone astray :angry:
whilst i was preparing for the delivery of the new tank (somewhere around the 18th December) I was offered a POwder blue that was slowly recovering from some damage caused by a rockfall. The person no longer wanted the fish and was closing the tank down. The Powder Blue was being kept in an 18inch hospital tank and was recovering well. I took the fish as i didnt like seeing it kept in such small conditions and its now florishing in my main system.
However... My LFS has now rang me and told me that i can collect the Achilles i have been after when i am ready. :unsure: They have got the fish far too early as the tank is not setup or ready yet. My dillema is this.. will these 2 tangs ever get long in the 220 gallon? This tank was designed for the Achilles and if the Powder Blue wont accept it then It ruins all my plans. I dony like the idea of the Achilles being kept in an 18 inch holding tank at the lfs whilst i get the main tank up and running. If i place it in the 100 gallon then i really dont know what the outcome would be.. I have a 30 gallon sump (i mean the main section is 30 gallon not including its partitions) where i could hold him for a short while (but my macro algaes are in here... Or i do have an empty Vision 180 that could be filled up i guess..
If it comes down to choice then I will get rid of the powder blue as it was not on my wish list in the first place (although it is a stunning fish).
I would greatly appreciate your input on this
Did you ever get your Achilles? How did it fair?
Ive had a PB tang for about a month, he was the last fish to go into my system along with an achilles tang, i made sure they went in together and were approx the same size. Touch wood, ive had problems, both feed well, no sign of whitespot or anything else and little or no squabbling, naturally ill keep an eye on things as they grow (both approx 4")
I have a 6ft tank with lots of water circulation and swimming room. I currently dont add nori/seaweed supplements as im trying to make them eat my caulerpa! dont see them touching it but they still seem in good health so obviously eating some greenery.
feeding time....
Here's mine, had him a few years now, never been a problem :thumbsup:
And another slightly out of focus, I blame the camera :rolleyes:
MarineManMercer
25-10-05, 16:29
Hi guys,
Like the post on powder blues etc, but personally i dont think anyone should keep either a p/d or a regal tang until their tank is well matured and have been keeping reef fish for atleast a year or until you know exactly about water parameters etc.The reason for me saying this is i had terrible trouble with white spot wiping out my fish when i first started and hate to see it happening to others.I dont have a p/d anymore as i keep a foxface,clown tang and 3 yellow tangs in my reef set up along with other fishes but have to say i do love the p/ds and regals very much.I can see most of the guys here have plenty of experience keeping them but cant stress enough if you really want to keep them then do your homework first or you will pay the price like i did.
:cheers:
How do PBs compare to Yellow Tangs or foxface rabbit fsh ??
I really like yellow tangs but have just read on the fish thread about the character of foxface rabbit fish ...
i have a pb, regal and a rabbit in my setup, the tangs get on with an occasional fin flarring and circling which amounts to nothing, the rabbit however is a diff thing, it harrases the regal but then the pb comes in and has a go at the rabbit
couple of pics
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/treeboa1/PICT1109.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/treeboa1/PICT1107.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/treeboa1/PICT1105.jpg
Reading Si's first post this was to be a regular feature, what happened and any chance of it re-starting??
Hi Treeboa. IMO you should not feed lettuce to marine fish as it is not easily digested, i used to feed my tropical fish on it. They will eat lettuce but will do better on dried seaweed which you can buy from your LFS. I am not critisising just making a suggestion. HTH. Eric
Hi
I have to agree with eric as I had a yellow tang that developed constipation from eating lettuce.
Nori is much better for them.
HTH
Sanj
I am now on my 2nd PB tang, he is close to being returned to LFS, just like my 1st PB tang, he just loves green star polyps.....and leather coral.....and has polished off a load of zoo's.....and has ripped into tree coral which is now fragged with it growing all over the place!
Has not touched my SPS...YET!
few months since i checked this thread, as yet i have not had a problem with my pb attacking anything coralwise, he does occasionall terrify the snails and hermits when he decides the need a good cleaning lol, the rabbit is now out of the equasion and he and the regal are if anything more tame in that they now both come to meet me at the front of the tank, ok its a feeding thing but still they are now both less timid, interesting the stings theory s mine will quite happily graze vety close to the bta i have, when it comes to now feeding nori the regal rips the stuff apart whilst the pb behaves like a lady at the dinner table, lite nips and no stuffing the face, food wise it has a varied appitite including whitebait
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.