View Full Version : Help !!!!
Hi All
I am just about to get a new tank which is going to be 4ftx2ftx2ft and i am after some advice. I want to fill it with live rock and i was wondering if anybody new how much in weight i would need??
Graham.
For what it's worth, I have roughly 100 kilos of live rock in a 6 x 2 x 2.5, but I do have a fairly open rock structure.
Hi Olly
hows your tank going m8 ?? not spoke to you for a while. This does help if i break it down ie 3ftx2.5x2 then this would mean you would only have 50 kg and i must have nearly about that now i think in my other tank. So what i might do is just buy 20kg and put this in the new tank and then move the other over in a few weeks. What do you reckon??
Graham
Sounds good to me mate.
Tank's coming along fine, everything has settled in well. :)
Hi Olly
Glad to hear your tank has settled down. How long have you had yours set up for now? Also how long does it take before my sump would be maturing and don't ask what size it is as i have no idea until i get my tank :D. LFS has been left to do all the measurements and fit it all together as i wouldn't have a clue. Its because me and sealent don't mix if you get what i mean.
Graham
I'm not sure! :) I think it's been set-up for about 3 months.
What have you got in the sump?
Hi olly
I have no idea i have no idea as i have left that to my lfs as he knows whats what as i am still new but i think i will be looking into having a dsb eventually.
Graham
If it's a DSB then it could take ages to fully mature with all the necessary fauna. However, it will probably begin to start effectively functioning after a month or so, provided it is seeded and fed. It won't be fully efficient at nitrate removal for a few months.
Hi Olly :D
So how long would it take if it is only bio balls which i think is the way he is going to start me off. As at the mo i don't have a sump just plenty live rock and a external filter which is easy so this is why i have decided to go into this hobby properly. As the wife and i agreed we wouldn't do marine again without a trickle filter and now i have ordered my tank with a sump and i have no idea how they work so i have a lot of learning to do in such a short space of time. I have herd dsb take along time to mature and also there can be problems with them so i am a little worried about dsb just yet. Any advice would be very grateful as always.
Graham
I'm afraid I don't have any experience of trickle filters, I've never had one. However, they do not get rid of nitrate, so this is something to keep an eye out for.
What have you got in your sump olly ?
A DSB and a bit of live rock, as well as all my equipment.
Hi Olly
How does the dsb work? I no it gets full of critters but thats it!!! I hear alot of peeps have this dsb but i have been told there can be problems with it. Can you explain to me how it works pls.
Graham
Well, where do I start. :)
Firstly, a deep sand bed should really be at least 4 inches deep for it to perform full denitrification duties. You can have shallow sand beds, but these won't perform as well at denitrification. The sand also needs to be fine. I used the expensive stuff - fine aragonite, but you can use playsand and the like too. You will then need to 'seed' the sand bed, and this can be done in a variety of ways. You can use the sludge from the bottom of the LFS tank where they keep the live rock, or you can buy a piece of live rock and smash it up, and then sprinkle the contents over the sand bed. You can also buy kits to seed the sandbed - I believe there's a place in the Midlands that sells them.
Now, the theory. Because of the fine particle size of the sand, it gives you a large surface area for bacteria to cling to. The shallower areas of the sand bed, where there's still plenty of oxygen, is an ideal substrate for the 'nitrifying' bacteria, the ones that turn ammonia into nitrite and then nitrate. This is the same function as traditional canister and trickle filters perform. Then, as you go deeper into the sand bed, the oxygen becomes lacking, due to it being taken up by the organisms above and in the first couple of inches of the sand bed. This deep part of the sand bed provides an ideal home for the 'denitrifying' bacteria, the ones that extract the oxygen from nitrate, to leave free nitrogen gas. This is what causes the bubbles to form in a sand bed. And there you have it, complete conversion of highly toxic ammonia, to non-toxic nitrogen gas! :)
However, there are inherent problems with sand beds. They can become clogged with detritus and bacterial and algal films. They can also clump up. This is where your critters come into it. You need critters to consume all this detritus and films, and to prevent the sand bed from clumping. What do you need? Well, the infamous bristleworms are pretty important. Most bristleworms are harmless detritivores, eating all the waste food that collects. In fact I have never had a worm that has eaten a coral in any of my tanks. Maybe I've just been lucky though. In fact them eating dead or dying things could have contributed to their bad reputation - someone sees them eating a coral, and the worm immediately gets the blame for its downfall. You also get other worms like spaghetti worms. Worms are useful because they burrow into the sand bed, helping to prevent clumping, and they eat the waste food and detritus. Then you have 'sand bed' snails. You get some that eat algal films and possibly bacterial films (like cyanobacteria), such as cerith snails, and some that consume detritus, like nassarius snails. Again, these will burrow into the sand, and nassarius especially will erupt out of the sand to feed on detritus, just after you feed the tank. Ceriths do tend to spend a lot of time on the glass though. You then have brittlestars and the like, which will consume gross detritus like dead fish and large pieces of food, but they will also eat small pieces of food like brine shrimp.
You also have lots of organisms in the sand bed that you can rarely buy, like copepods and amphipods. These tiny crustaceans are also detritivores, and again they will live in and on top of the sand bed, which helps to prevent clumping.
There's basically millions of little critters that live in a sand bed, all contributing to its efficiency. Ones that you can buy, and ones that will come in on live rock and the like. All (most) of these 'critters' will reproduce. When they reproduce, they release larvae into the water column, which will help to feed your corals and other invertebrates.
If the sand bed is in a sump you have to feed it, because otherwise the critters won't have enough to feed on. If it's in the main tank waste food should be enough to feed the critters. You have to build up your feeding and stocking gradually, to allow the sand bed time to increase the organisms in it, which will enable it to better deal with the waste.
There has been talk of problems with sand beds recently. One particular person thinks that they will facilitate a build-up of toxic heavy metals (and he did research which he said showed that commercial salt mixes overdose on 'trace elements', making them toxic. Also, feeding will increase this heavy metal load. So they're not perfect. However, it's unclear exactly how true this is, and besides, a remote DSB in your sump can be removed far more easily than an in-tank one.
Hope that helps, anymore questions, please feel free to ask. :)
Hi Olly
You are a star. I don't know anybody else on here that would have explained it better or in so much detail. The bad news is my tank is not ready until next weekend now so i will still have to wait. I think i will wait for a while before i take the plunge into DSB in the sump. I think i will just stick to what my LFS is setting me up with which i think is just the basics for now until i get use to the system. But really thanks for this its been a very big help.
Graham
Glad I was of help mate. :)
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