View Full Version : Roddy & Sharon's 500l Ecosystem
Our 500l litre ecosystem has now been up and running for about 8 weeks.
Tank specs:
4'x2'x2' with 3'x18"x15" Biosediment sump with some bioballs and 32oz tub of Kent Cell Pore media
20kg of Mature Relief Rock (running and seeded since feb 2003)
20kg of Live rock form existing tank
15kg of new live rock to add biodiversity
1.5" deep aragonite sugar sand bed on 1/2 tank
Arcadia 400 series 2 x 250w 14000k metal halide supplemented with 2x 30w actinics
ASL T5 72w (Power compact) lighting unit over sump
Eheim 1260 return pump and Tunze 6080 Turbelle Stream (11000 l/hr turnover, 22x tank volume/ hour)
PTM auto top off system run through "Pasta Jar" Kalk stirrer
Tank parameters have been perfect from day one, as all of the rock had been in one system or another (2 1/2 year old reef or in our relief rock seeding tank which had been on the go since feb) there was no detectable cycle. After letting things settle down (mostly the sand after the addition of the Stream) we have gradually started to move over corals and add a few fish.
The first additions were a beautiful group of jewel Anthias(squamipinnis) (Male & 4 females). These were in essence quarantined in the 500l tank. No other fish were present and as there were 5 largish fish we reckoned it would be less stressful to keep them in the main tank than squash them in a 100l qt tank which would invariably have water quality problems. After a trouble free month with the fishes last weekend I noticed a few scrapes on the sides of the fish were not going away. This turned out to be the Brookylnella parasite which a trip to the vets for some metronidazole seems to be sorting out. However, one week on the fish are looking worse and showing signs of flashing and possibly white spots on their fins although at this stage too early to tell.
Fish woes aside, we started to gradually move over the corals. Starting with the easy to keep/dispensible corals. In went the zooznthids, the mushrooms, the devil's hand and the pulsing xenia. All looking good and happy over the last few weeks. Last night we moved on another step and moved in a few LPS and a test SPS. And of course the cleaner shrimp (to see if he could help with te parasite problem).
What we saw 20 minutes after adding the new additons amazed us beyond belief. After keeping clener shrimp for 2 1/2 years we finally go to see the fabled "cleaning station" and 5 itchy anthias queing up to be cleaned (It was like our local pressure wash place on a saturday afternoon!) we were absolutely gobsmacked and although not a long term solution helps the fish feel better at the moment.
What we saw come the morning was even more amazing. We have had our Trumpet coral (Caulestra sp) for 1 1/2 years, every night without fail out come it's feeding tentacles. Usually 2-3mm long. I swear this thing was covered in 5cm feeding tentacles obviously overjoyed in it's new home.
So, ecosystem so far not too good for the fishies absolutely amazing for the corals. Starting with fairly demanding species in what is essentially a raw tank has probably not been the best idea in the world. Although as the fish were fine for 1 month I am tempted to put it down to heat stress (easy way out) rather than water quality (most likely). Without the safety net of a skimmer the organic load in the system is obviously very high. This is likely to be having an effect on the fish. Although NH3, NO2, N03 and PO4 remain zero there are so many other things that a skimmer takes out that could have a detrimental effect on fish health. Stepping up the water changes is the only way we can see round this at the moment as the caulerpa in the refugium is very slow to start. I assume one this gets growing we may have less of an issue.
In conclusion, for corals an ecosytem seems to be heaven on earth, whether the fish will come round to this way of thinking remains to be seen. So far we are impressed by the ecosystem method and what it has to offer. If the newest additions still look this good next week it will be an end of an era for us as the last of our corals are moved over. What we do with the fish all depends on how good a job shrimpy does.
Sorry for it being so long.
Sharon & Roddy
Interesting read... Keep us updated...
Tim
Hi there,
Thanks for sharing your experiences with us. It has been my intention to try the ecosytem for some time now. I had hoped to be up and running by now but family matters have prevented me so far ( the arrival of my first grandchild to be exact). I hope to make a start in the next couple of months and your post has encouraged me.
Sorry to hear of your fish probs and hope that the recover quickly. Reading your post your water quality seems near perfect and the corals are obviously thriving so I think that your theory of heat triggering the disease outbreak may well be most likley cause. In any event I shall keep an eye out for further news.
Good luck with your tank
Dave
Very good post, be sure to keep us informed B)
Here are a few pictures of the tank at 8 weeks. Tonight the bubble coral and the pavona cactus are not looking best pleased after having a coming together thanks to a wandering snail. Bubble might be in an area of too high flow. That stream is dangerous <_<
The fish are looking very well cleaned but I think they have tired out shrimpy! They keep going over to him but he doesn't seem interested. Maybe that's a good sign that there's nothing there to eat!
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/8 weeks.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/8 weeks2.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/whole tank web.jpg
kenneth_halley
19-08-03, 23:18
Looking good- hopefully the fish will recover. I take it the stuff you have been treating them with is reef safe. Have you had to use carbon or anything to remove it- or does it just disappear somehow?
Can see this tank is going to give us some talking points at the next meet!
If you are needing some caulerpa, might be able to help- as think I am coming up for a pruning soon- let me know.
Planning on taking a shipment of frags to Aquatic rooms at the weekend if he want them.
PS. Got the frags away to the USA.... Seems to have been partially successful!
Hi there,
Fantastic posting, I hope that your fish pull through. Super pics too! B)
Regards
Lisa
Moved the bubble to a less turbulent location last night. Look at the size of the sweeper tentacles on this at 5pm in the afternoon!! :)
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/tentacles.jpg
craigandsimon
21-08-03, 11:47
looking good :)
Hi there,
Superb tank. I'll wager that tank will just get better and better. Please keep us informed.
Good luck.
Dave
Very nice setup. :)
That bubble coral has some loooong sweeper tentacles. I had the same species of Bubble coral in my tank. It grew too big for my tank and the sweepers kept stinging other corals. Though I found out that if I fed it the sweepers came out less.
Nice setup.
Hi there,
Further to your fish probs I came across an article on the ecosytem website by Mike Palleta. In this article he states that, in his experience Cryptocaryon (Marine Ich) was unusually difficlut to eradicate. His thoughts on the subject were that the mud provided the perfect breeding ground for the parasite in the early stages. Encouragingly he goes on to relate that once the mud became fully populated with critters etc the problem all but disappeared.
Food for thought?
Cheers
Dave
Yes very interesting. I have read that one way to get rid of ich is to use a diatomaceous filter (sand based iirc) I guess that 's all a miracle mud bed is.
Thankfully, the brookylnella patches seem to be clearing up and since the addition of 2 more cleaner shrimp (obviously much more up to date on current cleaning practices) the fish all seem much better. I haven't seen any "white spots" for over a week but as they are still itchy I assume the parasite is still there. I hope that good food, good water and good cleaning will at least lower it to a manageable level.
Sharon
Very nice. Think I'm going to use the Eco method on my new tank.
Do you have any Piccies of the sump please?
Cheers
Mark.
hi Mark
here you go
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/sumpempty-.jpg
the basic plan of the sump should be evident it's an old 3' x 15" x 18" tank. the fuge chamber is 16" x 15" and about 14" deep.
heres one with all the gubbins in place.
http://ultimatereef.net/uploads/rh-sump2.jpg
i will try and get an updated wide shot for you and post it soon.
any questions let me know.
Roddy
kenneth_halley
25-08-03, 19:06
Roddy- what kind of light unit is that over your sump mate?
K
Its an ASL T5 unit available from Aquatics Online. Thought it was rather dinky myself. Only had it a fortnight, don't know if its helping the algae yet. The corraline has gone daft though.
Thanks for the sump piccies. I've got a spare 3 footer that I'm intending to use. Did you make the compartments yourself? Not sure if I should get someone to do it or have a bash myself :huh:
Also got a wide shot yet?
Mark.
Mark here are a couple of pictures of the sump. We got the glass for about £24 cut to size but not ground down (did it ourselves with a dremmel). It was dead easy, just be very sure of where you want the partitions to go and don't use too much silicon.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/sump1.jpg
Here's a few more pictures of the corals settling into their new home...These acros were transferred over last night and not wanting to sound like Mushie here we can't believe the polyp extension being shown already. Unfortunately, we haven't got any before shots from the old tank but believe you me the difference is amazing.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/xmas tree acro.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/dark green acro.jpg
If anyone knows the scientific names of these 2 species we'd love to know. Both from Calico if that helps.
Sharon & Roddy
Reef Addict
26-08-03, 21:32
Hi Roddy & Sharon, the new tank looks great, I'm glad you've finally got everything up and running now. Your corals are looking really well in the new system!
Mark :D
Hiya Sharon & Roddy
Tank looks great and with on skimmer (very brave)
How many fish are you planing to have and are you keeping the rock work low (more room for corals :D ) or adding more in time.
Steve :)
PS, Hope the fish recover ok
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/corals in web.jpg
This is the tank with all of the LR added. Not so low but still quite so (let the corals grow up there and will make water changes less dramatic). The whole right hand side is hollow too as it is sitting on a platform. Never were a big fan of "wall of rock" tm reef design. Hopefully this way keeps a good flow through the whole tank.
Not adding too many fish, probably a kole tang, our 2 fish from previous set up and a small gobie/blenny. Have never been into large amounts of fish. Although we were just wondering if we could get a few more anthias!!! :rolleyes:
The anthias are looking better, scales seem to be growing back and their vibrant colours have returned. The 3 cleaners are still very busy but not so much now so I guess they must be feeling less itchy.
Thanks for all the nice comments
Sharon & Roddy
Originally posted by Frogfone@Aug 26 2003, 21:11
Mark here are a couple of pictures of the sump. We got the glass for about £24 cut to size but not ground down (did it ourselves with a dremmel). It was dead easy, just be very sure of where you want the partitions to go and don't use too much silicon.
What do you mean by'ground down'? Do you mean the edges from the cutting? Sorry to be dim :blink:
Mark.
Looking really good guys :)
The Anthias are definately looking vibrant :o glad the cleaner shrimps have helped sort out the prob.
Sooooooo........ is that a home made kalk stirrer I spy next to the sump, a "spaghetti jar/funnel/ph" design if I'm not mistaken :huh: got any tips on how you made it?
Cheers
Anna
Yep it's a Tim (the tool man) Hunt special. If you do a search in the DIY forum under Kalc Stirrer you should find it. If not let us know and we can send you plans etc.
Roddy
Hi Sharon and Roddy,
I seem to have overlooked your post until now, sorry :ph34r: , tank is looking good, all them corals will be growing at a rate now! :wub: , glad to here the anthias are feeling better
Mandy
Hi Sharon/ Roddy the tanks looking great . Im just about to set up my eco system to so keep us updated on how thing are doing . I will post some pics when im ready hope to see u guys at the next meeting get some more info from u
cheers Aldo
no need to wait until the next meeting. if theres anything specific you want to know just post/pm/e-mail and i will do my best to answer. How are the other Aberdeen guy's Ecosystems getting along?
next meeting is at bigger so it's a long trek for you guys but you could always combine it with a calico visit.
see you there
Roddy
Hi Guys,
Any update on progress? More piccies too please.
Also there's a thread on MM muds that you may be able to help on. Just getting the partitions done on my sump next week as I intend to set it up externally for a while. Any tips on maturing?
Mark.
Sorry Mark
i've not checked this thread for ages.
hope you have got your sump done by now.
No real progress to report i'm afraid as the tank has been put on hold until we got back from our diving holiday. we are planing a trip down to 7000 litres setup next weekend however so keep checking.
No real differeance to maturing an eco to any other type of system i would just do it slower as your waiting for a biological equilibrium to be established. get a good variety of snails/shrimps etc as the more food that gets eaten the less work there is for the calupera to do.
I have been posting on a few MM threads but it may not be the one you mean.
Roddy
Hi Roddy,
Thanks for the note. Just one thing. Did you seed the sump with worms etc? Not sure whether to collect from my DSB or not.
Just decided to make a start with the sump at last. Gooing to mature it in the garage for a few months first before I set up the new tank.
Thanks.
Mark.
Just bought a lump of liverock to seed the sand bed. Was also given handful of caulerpa from Kenny H which must have had some life in it. I guess if you have critters available from a dsb they'd be ideal.
have you any new pic's mate..?
:rolleyes:
Our digi-cam has been in Australia with my brother for a few weeks but now we have it back here's some pics of our new corals (Mostly from 7000ltr) but some also from fellow Scottish Reefers.
Blue tipped Bali Farmed Coral
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/bluetipped1.jpg
Another Blue tipped Bali coral
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/bluetipped2.jpg
Bluetipped acro from Aberdeen
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/staghorn.jpg
Pink/Brown at then moment Hysterix
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/brownhysterix.jpg
Here's some more...
Green monti from 7000ltr
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/greenmonti1.jpg
Blue A. millepora from Kenny Halley
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/millepora1.jpg
Pink tipped acro
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/pinktippedacro.jpg
The tank in general is looking great. Many of the LPS are growing very quickly. SPS seem to have put on a bit of a spurt too. Last week we increased the lighting as most of the beautiful frags from 7000ltr were losing their colour and turning brown. We had a homemade 150w metal halide made out of a garden security light that had been used to good effect on our last tank. A bit of DIY to bolt it to the wall and mount the ballast in a safe place and bingo we had another 150w of light abouve the tank. Roddy also came up with a great idea to make "gull wing" style reflectors from the standard ones we had on our 42" T8s. A few cable ties later we had them mounted together at the front of the tank balancing out the extra light added at the back. Altogether very happy with the new light and the effect it has had on the frags (now showing more signs of colour returning). Will probably replace the 18 month old Aquamedic 14k with a BLV 20k as it should encourage the corals to colour up.
Pic of tank with 150w (Double 250's have just gone off)
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/tankwith150w.jpg
Looking great. Eco defo the way to go for me. :D
Mark.
Are you adding any additives into the tank?
Hi there Badboy... No, we don't add any additives only Kalk and we use ARM aragonite in the Calcium reactor which I beleive has lots of trace elements in it. We also do a 15% water change once a month (If we rememeber). I see that you are from Glasgow..should have come along today to the reefers meeting. Lots of frags looking for new homes to go to. :)
Sharon
Here we go with a quick update on the tank.
Tank has been running now for about 5 months. We have added a lot of corals but not very many fish. Latest additions were 4 more anthias to make a shoal of 7 feamles and one male. One didn't make it through the first week and ended up shrimp food.
We are currently in the middle of a horrid filamentous algae outbreak. Thankfully limited to the sand and areas of slow water flow. Just did a big clean our tonight (hence a few quick pictures while the tank looks ok) syphoning most of it out so hopefully shouldn't come back so bad tomorrow.
Here's a pic of the tank as it looks atm
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/ecotank-28-12-03-web.jpg
Here's a pic of the rhs. Thought it was quite cool and showed of Mr Anthias quite well
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/columnweb.jpg
Here's a scary one of our menace. Not sure whether to keep him. Bulldozing, corraline eating, snail hijacking git that he is.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/urchin1-web.jpg
We're hoping to add a few more fish soon. Some type of blenny/goby and possibly a small tang. Not in any rush.
Hiya
Tanks looking great.
Beautiful male Anthias. :wub:
Steve :)
Mountainman01
29-12-03, 13:05
Hi Roddy and Sharon,
Firstly, I must say that you have a beautiful setup there! I have a 4x2x2 in the garage waiting for me to set it up (unfortunately I have got to fulfil my promise of a new living room first!! lol)
It was great to find your post as I am planning on running an ecosystem.
Just as a matter of interest, what are your water parameters at the moment?
Are you finding that as time is going along that the bioballs are building up nitrates? (possible cause of algae break out?) I'm sorry if thats sucking eggs type stuff, don't mean to insult your intelligence :unsure:
I'm asking for my benifit really, as still deciding on sump set up, and whether or not to include bio balls. I think I read somewhere they store nitrates, is this right IYO?
Thanks Paul.
pbcunningham
29-12-03, 13:19
Hi, firstly sorry to jump on your post but thought that I could put a reply up in relation to my experience with the eco-system style in relation to the bio-balls. My tank has been running now for around 4 - 5 months using this method of filtration, I am using bio-balls and my nitrates are measuring at < 0.3. I think that this may be due to the fact that all the bio-balls are submerged under water, therefore they are unable to act as a wet/dry filter. I have read on other forums that people using the eco-system method utilise bits of live rock instead of bio-balls to good effect.
Hope that helps.
Peter
Yeah we have bioballs and some Kent Cell pore media in there too. We don't have tons on bioballs (2 boxes of lees biostars to be precise).
Have never had any nitrate reading at all but I put this down to the fact that the algae in the refugium will be using it as fast as it is produced. Don't know if I have mentioned this before but I distincly remember reading that the production of nitrate is actually a good thing in an eco style tank. The faster the caulerpa grows the more complex nutients it is exporting from the system (ie the organic chemicals that would be removed using a skimmer).
Many people say that bioballs produce excess nitrate. This imo is crap. Your tank will only ever produces as much nitrate as you put in via feeding. They have a reputation for being very efficient at producing nitrate, possibly faster than the liverock can keep up with. Others believe that if you have additional forms of filtration that are more efficient at breaking down ammonia this outcompetes the bacteria on the liverock where denitrification would take place in the anoxic areas. The best way to avoid nitrate bulid up is to avoid detritus build up. If the sump is kept clean and there is good flow in the tank then nitrate should not be a problem.
I have also heard that cleaning the bioballs in tap water every couple of weeks will stop them becoming biologically active but to me this would be nonsensicle and a waste of my time (although I cleaned them in tank water last night to remove the encroaching caulerpa).
Sorry to be so long winded and thank you again for all the compliments.
Sharon
hows the tank doing now, got any new pics?
andrew
andrew your certainly diggin about the old thread must be all the revisin...good work though i'd almost forgotten about all these tanks..n
yeah went through the peoples tanks thread, and saw which ones i liked, and am now looking through there tank threads, to see the scaping. Just thinking about what i will be doing with my next tank :)
Pomme... just for you a quick update.
Tank has been running for approx 10 months. Not without its problems. Filamentous algae dissapeared after the caulerpa got back up to speed. Occaisionally see it lurking in dead spots but it's no major hassle.
We are really happy with the tank and the corals. All the corals are growing although I would say not as fast as in a skimmed system. We still keep up our fortnightly 20% water changes and add only kalk and ARM filled calcium reactor. We have recently added some chaetomopha algae from Hawkmaster and it is growing but not very fast.
Latest additons are 3 clams from clams.co.uk and some left over frags from the last Scottish Reefers meet held at our house.
Slight set back in the last few weeks as one of our first acros has recessed quite badly and some emergency fragging was called for incase the whole colony was lost. At the moment we are putting this down to either detritus build up in the centre of the coral/ low alk (3.5 DHK) as the Ca reactor has been on the fritz.
Green acro with tissue necrosis...coral was double this size before this week
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/necrosis.jpg
Spot the difference, this is the coral on page 3 descired as a blue tipped bali from 7000ltr
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/june%20btb.jpg
A selection of our favourite corals
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/june%20corals.jpg
A beautiful red monitpora given to us by Kenny Halley
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/june%20monti.jpg
Here's one of the whole tank with all the lights
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/june%20whole%20tank.jpg
Here's one when the halides have just gone off
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/whole%20tank%20actinics.jpg
I could go one forever....
Here's hoping that the green acro recovers. I guess we all lose a coral now and again. Reactor has now been refilled and is working correctly again. Perhaps it needs an acro crab of it's own? Most of the others have one but this coral does not. Next big thing will be new lights in a few months, otherwise it's business as usual.
Sharon
edit: fix pics
Fantastic looking tank well done, im considering eco on my next tank so its very intresting to follow this thread.
Looking stunning guys. Wish I could have been at the SRM to see it close up though :(
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