Lowering Alk To Halt Sdr

[Mushroom]

Ok let's see if we could have a meaningful discussion this time:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...threadid=299976 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=299976)

JBNY and Michael Moyes tanks are both superb and both seem to be having success with the lower alk approach.

[tuan]

Well... pushing levels above and beyond NSW is always a risk.

Eric's input is also interesting:- http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...106#post2282106 (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2282106#post2282106)

So basically pushing alk/calc beyond NSW is a risk, but may not be the only cause of this problem.

Also, IIRC, Martyn runs his system at fairly low or just below NSW levels in the belief of not over-driving the corals.

[narthur]

what are NSW levels just out interest??

[tuan]

Nic, good question!

[sparky]

My tank has been running at low ALK/CAL levels for quite some time now.

This was not done on purpose,I just did not get time to test regular,when I did get round to testing my ALK was running at 7 and CAL at 400 ish

I run a reactor with quite a high bubble count and a steady trickle back into the tank,the tank is quite hightly stocked with SPS corals and also have a frag tank interconnected to the main tank.

Since I tesed last I have made no alterations to the reactor but have tested a few more times each time the rusults being roughty the same.

I have noticed no effect on coral growth or health.

I dont skim real heavy I have numerous diffrent types of algeas in the tank,have also a "live"sand bed.

This is a very interesting topic.

I have no evidence but I believe from my experiances and from chatting to martyn on a regular basis that food is a major part of the devlopment of corals,when I say food I mean natural zooplankton etc. High calcium and Alk levels in a tank with little or not natural food wont make the corals grow any quicker,if anything they will be stressed.

I think poeple worry to much about the Calcium and Alk levels and forget that the corals need regular natural foods to grow.

I would be interesting if someone set-up a experimant in which two SPS corals frags were placed in seperate tanks,One having just liverock a small sand bed,heavy skimming and running high levels off calcium and ALK.

The other placed in a tank of the same volume but using a deep sand bed,liverock
no skimming and levels kept lowish ie ALk 6 Cal 380ppm, and see what grew better both shape wise and amount off tips produced.

maybe I have not explained myself well above,but I think you sould get the general idea!

The above is based on my experiances,and have no written evidence to back me up.


Andrew

[kim]

In warm surface water, it's about 2.35 meq, of which 2.00 meq is carbonate "based".

I would guess that it could very well be a little lower around a reef.

kim

[tuan]

I must admit to not testing my Calc/Alk for a while - then found out it was well low, 320-350 range. This was due to my having added loads of corals and they all started growing... not noticed any probs during that time. SPS were growing well - and coralline still going mad too.

[narthur]

so bit of a conundrum really...food or ALk answer's on a postcard... ;)

[kim]

Originally posted by tuan@Jan 24 2004, 23:37
I must admit to not testing my Calc/Alk for a while - then found out it was well low, 320-350 range. This was due to my having added loads of corals and they all started growing... not noticed any probs during that time. SPS were growing well - and coralline still going mad too.
Must have been getting pretty close tho'....I thought that one reason folks kept high alk was because natural levels are rather low and, with calcification, can drop to zilch really quick.

Eg a drop of 40 ppm Ca is accompanied by a fall of 2 meq carbonate, or the equivalent of 5.6 dKh. Ie a 10 % fall in one is accompanied by a 50 % collapse in the other.

Since not all the alkalinity, especially in artificial salts, is carbonate, with these sorts of drops corals should run out of raw material very fast. Hence the idea to have a little "buffer" on the buffering level...it is very tempting ?

For some reason I can't get onto RC now. Are people concerned with too much alkalinity, or too much carbonate, or isn't the debate that far along ?

kim

[sparky]

I think you need both.

I just dont think its a good idea to worry or get anal about your Cal&ALK.
Some people panic if it drops 10ppm over a week!, thiers no proof that high calcium levels and alk levels promote the health in your corals but theirs also no evidence that lower levels are better.
The problem comes when people fiddle and adjust everything way to farst.

Im not saying you dont need a calcium reactor,but as long as its keeping levels within a reasonable rage I personally dont see the problem with lower levels.

I do think that the idea of the tank being able to produce its own natural food is often over looked but thats a whole diffrent subject and I have not the knowelge or typing skills to go into detail!

Andrew

Also I have noticed since running lower levels I have less hassle with calcium build up on pumps etc, use to have to soak my stream pumps every 2 weeks in white vinegar,not anymore :D

[Mushroom]

Interesting Sparky, the idea of the lack of food stressing the acros especially when the higher alk level is telling them to grow faster. I have noticed on several occasions that after I added Salifert Bio Coral (amino acid) one or two acro branches would go white the next day.

The amino acid is supposed to:

"Between the inorganic calcium strontium carbonate layer a thin organic layer is present. The function of such a layer is to increase growth and to decrease the negative effects of for example phosphate. This addictive contains all the amino-acids the corals use for the organic layer..."

Perhaps higher than natural alk level also has a profound effect on this organic layer, which when combined with the lack of the necessary amino acids, cause some parts of the acros to shut down.