View Full Version : Additive Alternatives
I've noticed that quite a few reefkeepers avoid the 'Kent's' of this world, and prefer to buy chemicals from their local chemist or places like http://www.labpakchemicals.com/
So, I've listed all the additives that we could put in our tanks. I'd like to ask you to tell me what you use to raise those minerals. Please don't list Kent's this or that, only cheap and sensible alternatives.
Note that the info presented here is the best I can gather, and will only appear if I can get it from qualified sources, however, things change fast, so don't regard it as gospel.
Recomended levels are also subject to opinion, those providing here are mostly from a reputable published source. Also, standard reefkeeping practice is to not add any chemicals that you cannot test for.
Iodine (rec. 0.5mg/litre)
Potassium Iodide (KI) and Sodium Iodide (NaI) can be considered together. Generally, a 5-10% solution of one of these is prepared and dosed into the tank. These solutions will dissociate into the positive ion K+ or Na+ and the Iodide Ion I-.
Strontium (rec. 8mg/litre)
Strontium Chloride (from pharmacies, mix with RO water 100g per litre. Add at rate of 1ml per 100 litres of tank water per week.
Magnesium (rec. 1250-1350 ppm)
Magnesium chloride - 500g container to about 1 ltr of RO
"I would not suggest raising magnesium by more than 100 ppm per day."
pH raiser (rec. pH 8.3) -
Hardness (rec. 9-12 dKH)
Hydroxide (found in kalkwasser)
Calcium (rec. 420mg/litre)
Calcium Hydroxide (also found in kalkwasser)
Calcium ONLY =
Boron (rec. ???)
*So far, can't find anyone that bothers with Boron!
Iron (rec. 0.05mg/litre)
*So far, can't find anyone that bothers with Iron!
Vitamins
Abidec (children's vitamins - used but no proper testing done)
Any opinions on whether or not these things SHOULD be added or NEED to be added is also appreciated. Note, I'll be editing this post, updating it with the info you provide.
A good thread popsock, and hopefully one that will be added to!!
Already mentioned by clarifying a little...
Iodine - available from the chemist usually to order 'Lugols Solution' about £3-£5, dilute with RO to make ALOT of iodine.
Kalkwasser - Calcium Hydroxide £10-£15 per kg from Labpack etc. OR (this is what i use and also ive read Craig Bingham in the US, Builders lime from B&Q £5 for 25kg! its 97% percent pure calcium hydroxide.
Magnesium - epsom salts available from the chemist about 90p per tub.
Anyone know of other additives please add to the list and lets try and save a few quid from LFS prices !!
Ga
with these additives i trust they are all reef safe??
I doubt all that are suggested will be reef safe, but I'll only add them to the list if they are reef safe. I left off Baking and Washing Soda because there is some doubt about their quality.
Ive used all the additives ive mentioned with no bad effects to any SPS, LPS or softies.
Ga
keith hellyar
01-04-04, 18:28
Can I suggest that it would also be useful to recommend dilutions for things like Lugols, and recommended dosing rates per gallonage. I know the answer to dosage rates is "it depends" on readings and "dont add what you cant measure" but some genral advice would avoid the potential disasters of overdosing.
I found this out to my horror in my freshwater days when I used formallin to tackle an outbreak of flukes. I got the dilution wrong and killed everything.
Keith
Not a very popular topic this, is it!
I think its an excellent thread popsock and one i shall follow with interest.
Unfortunately i can't contribute as i have no experience with alternative additives but maybe its about time i started.
Dosing rates would be particularly helpfull!
C'mon folks lets ave' em. :thumbsup:
i agree with finntyla
:dance: :dance:
I agree too :D , very interested in this topic, but unfortunately :blink: have nothing to contribute except that i use labpacks calcium hydroxide with great results. :D
must say a dilutution guide would be useful for the uninitiated who would be too scared to use unbranded otherwise :wacko: (ME) :P
thanks popsock for starting it off :bow:
mandy
reefkeeper
03-04-04, 22:31
Magnesium - epsom salts available from the chemist about 90p per tub.
actually magnesium chloride is safer than magnesium sulphate( epsom salt) for no other reason than when you have reached desirable magnesium levels you have also reached not so desirable sulphate levels.
not all shops are kent mad some of us sell a kilo of mag chloride for 9.00 ;)
reefkeeper
03-04-04, 22:32
Strontium - strontium chloride
actually stontium chloride hexahydrate is what should be used ( dont ask me why we have a chemist as a customer who once tried too explain the reason and after a long lecture he suggested this)
Originally posted by Ga@Apr 1 2004, 15:56
Iodine - available from the chemist usually to order 'Lugols Solution' about £3-£5, dilute with RO to make ALOT of iodine.
It appears that using Lugols solution can cause problems in tanks that do infrequent water changes... bla bla bla, see below if interested:
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/e_edelman2.html
:)
i dose iron, but haven't found an alternative to 'K', was finding it hard to grow any type of algea and was suggested i dose iron, and must say sump now starting to bloom
I to am watching this with great interest. Especially the magnesium part as red sea salt is so lacking in mg.
Tried to find a link to watford aquarium site as they sell the mg substitute and i wanted to see if they sold joes juice aswell but i cant find a link anywhere. Oh well anyway this is a popular post to me atleast.
BTW on the link to labpac that you posted i found Magnesium Chloride 6-water LR not sure what the 6-water LR stands for any idea and is this ok?
Also on the calcium i found Calcium Chloride 2 Water and Calcium Hydroxide LR im not sure what the extra numbers and letters stand for but why hydroxide and not chloride? can this convert to chlorine and chloromine if so why magnesium chloride?
Please see also the following in the FAQ section:-
Iodine (lugols), Usage for treatment (http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=16476)
How to increase Magnesium (http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=16475)
How To Increase Calcium (not Balanced) (http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=16474)
Ill have another check in the morning as im going to bed, but all but one of the links on the magnesium page dont work.
In relation to the earlier question about "purity" and safety for reef use...
Many industrial chemical processing operations will give you reagents that have their purity expressed in terms of a percentage e.g. 97% CaCO3 etc
Of course it is sometimes the case that the last 3% whilst not being an issue for the normal 'end user' e.g. brick layer :) may well have consequences for the reef keeper. :(
As an example Calcium Hydroxide is produced commercially by the lime slaking process.
This takes mined Limestone through a heating process to generate Calcium Oxide (Quick Lime), which is then hydrated with sufficient water to create hydroxides from the oxide. As an industrial reagent this can then be presented in a number of forms including High Calcium Hydrated Lime - (see you local builders merchant), Dolomitic hydrated lime (most limestone has Mg in it as we all know, and this is converted along with the Calcium, although in normal hydrated lime only the calcium portion is converted, whereas in a high pressure lime the Mg is hydrated as well.)
Therefore using limestone as the pre cursor you get the following:
HIGH CALCIUM HYDRATED LIME
(Calcium Hydroxide)
Chemical Analysis Percent
CaO 73.00
Ca(OH)2 94.50
CaCO3 1.70
MgO 1.10
SiO2 1.10
Al2O3 0.60
Fe2O3 0.20
S 0.028
LOI (Loss on ignition, usually relates to Water content) 23.00
Available CaO 71.50
So you can see that you are not just getting Ca(OH)2. Now of course it maybe that some of the impurities are not a problem, and are perhaps even desirable in some cases e.g. MgO, but for some chemical processes the impurities may well be harmfull to your livestock, so you should check the analysis of the product before buying! :thumbsup:
...Also there are various grades of reagent that are available each of differing purity and hence cost:
AR - Analytical Reagent suitable for laboratory and high purity requirements.
Primary Standard - Analytical reagent of exceptional purity that is specially manufactured for standardizing volumetric solutions and preparing reference standards.
Reagent - The highest quality commercially available for this chemical.
Purified - Defines chemicals of good quality where there are no official standards. This grade is usually limited to inorganic chemicals.
Lab Grade - suitable for general laboratory applications.
BP / EP - British / European Pharmacopeia - suitable for making drugs man! ;)
FCC - Products that meet the requirements of the Food Chemical Codex (America)
CP (Chemically Pure) - Products of purity suitable for use in general applications.
Technical - A grade suitable for general industrial use.
Technical grade will be the cheapest, where as some AR grade or Primary Standard material will be many hundreds of times the cost!!
e.g. 500g of Strontium Chloride Technical Grade e.g. roughly 95% pure may cost you about £20, where as AR Grade 99.9965% will cost about £3000 for 500g!
Anyway, I've burbled on more than enough, and probably confused the whole issue greatly!
:cheers:
Wurgle
P.S. Do I win a prize for the longest, most boring post ever? :thanx:
pH adjuster (8.3)
10 parts Sodium bicarbonate
1 part Sodium carbonate
0.1 part Borax
BP formulations available in Boots are high enough quality to use to make this up.
Total cost a couple of quid to make up 500 g, should last you a while...
Rob
hmmm Wurgle, that's all very interesting, but you haven't given us anything positive to use. You seem to know what you're talking about, so maybe you can give us definitive list of chemicals that we CAN use, and where we can get them from would also be useful.
Roburns, are you absolutely sure that they are high enough quality for reef use? Any evidence? I've read a lot of threads on reefcentral that those kind of products vary tremendously in their quality.
Also Tuan, recently I've read that using lugols has the side effect of a build up of sodium somethingorother, and is not ideal (again, so I've read).
As I said in the original post I will only lists things in that post which have NO reports of risk, and are all clear as far as anyone knows.
One last thing, I've been in many pharmacies recently, and not a single one stocked any of the chemicals I've been looking for. BOO!
Popsock,
I would very much doubt that the manufacturers of buffers are using anything purer than pharmaceutical grade to make them up. BP should be fine for these applications. The recipe I gave for the buffer I made up and used for years before getting a calcium reactor so i have first hand knowledge of this one.
Rob
Good point Rob. I've had a lot of trouble tracking down Strontium Chloride. Boots seems to be pretty useless for these chemicals, stocking nothing mentioned so far except Sodium BiCarbonate tablets.
If anyone else can find a good source for these things, would be appreciated. labpak are moving at the moment, but they stock some.
Hi All
As a newy I'm very interested in this subject.However I share some concerns about what to use and how much.Saying that I've just spent over £80 on Kent additives which to me could have been spent on stocking the tank with frags etc
Martin
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