View Full Version : Ecosystem Sump's
Which do you think is the best to use? :(
SPS Hoover
13-10-04, 20:35
Sump is more than whats listed.
You have different designs to take into consideration.
I don't you will get a fair answer to your question.
Perhap you would be better to say what sort of tank you are aiming for people could then give their views on best way to acheive
Taking in to consideration the sump design.
The question should have been. Which do you prefer for your sump.
simon garratt
13-10-04, 20:39
Is it possible to compare the two? . they are completely different ways of running a tank.
What do you term / regard as 'better'
It may be better to ask 10 DSB users their test readings and then ask 10 Ecosystem users their results.......all of which must have run for at least 1 yr....
Regards
Si. :)
SPS Hoover
13-10-04, 20:41
You could not pay me enough to have a miracle mud system. Pile of pants
Don't believe the hipe
Hows that ;)
SPS Hoover
13-10-04, 20:44
Si
You forgot to say all had equal bio loads, have to have same size systems and sumps all would have to perform same routines
The list goes on I'm afraid
Its not that simple ;)
I wish it was :D
All i wanted was a Opinion. :( On which was the best to use.
i was thinking of a miracle Mud system. Beacuse of reading up on there web site.
But if anyone can Persuade me to use a DSB. Please do.
Costs less. :dance:
Landk.......
Kosh42 has nice miracle muddy job....do a search for him and threads and have a look at his system...He explanes pretty good....and he has no skimmer. His corals are doing very well as you will see from his pictures.
Mark...
SPS Hoover
13-10-04, 21:27
If you would like to read about dsb's
Try
Si G's (http://www.reef-eden.com)
Andy Hipkiss (http://www.andy-hipkiss.co.uk/)
I would personnelly avoid Micracle Mud system I think the jury is still out on those systems
My problem with MM is that I don't understand what MM is or does. It is a commercial secret.
Whereas a DSB is open. It is complex, undoubtedly we don't perfectly understand how it works (and possibly they all work quite differently). But we can discuss it intelligently, even if we might be wrong at times. We can develop the principles, there is potential, we can be involved. It is interesting !
MM is a dead end while it is a secret. What's there to discuss ? How does it develop ? So what's the potential ?
I would always prefer to take my chances on something where I have at least some chance, eventually, of being in some control, especially if there's some fun along the way.
It's just a personal "thang".
kim
i agree i just don't see the point in Miracle Mud .. where does it orginate from because i've never seen photo's or mud on the Great Barrier reef or the red sea..
Well its supposed to help caulerpa grow which as it happens grows just as well in cheaper sand!
I personally think "miracle mud" Is absolutly FANTASTIC for the people who sell it!
:bored:
I dont see what is wrong with the claim that it help macro algae go..... after all its full of iron!
FWIW - I am removing my MM bed this w.e
Elliot
forgive me if im being stupid but............
mm helps algea grow
now some people like algea in there main tank so fair dos on this, but a lot of peopl dont.
now people put algea(grasses) in their sump to remove stuff out of the water so why would you want it to be helped along with iron or what ever mm helps with unless its for selling on or feeding
ben
Just a note - I use Caribsea Aragamud (basically its Aragamax with boosted iron content) rather than Ecosystem's Miracle Mud...
So far, I've had no problems...
Tim
Bachlum Chaam
14-10-04, 13:42
Originally posted by kosh42@Oct 14 2004, 13:42
Just a note - I use Caribsea Aragamud (basically its Aragamax with boosted iron content) rather than Ecosystem's Miracle Mud...
So far, I've had no problems...
Tim
Mine is the same I also have no skimmer
Andy Hipkiss
14-10-04, 21:01
Originally posted by kosh42@Oct 14 2004, 13:42
Just a note - I use Caribsea Aragamud (basically its Aragamax with boosted iron content) rather than Ecosystem's Miracle Mud...
So far, I've had no problems...
Tim
It is?? Not IME. It's much finer and well erm, mud like. I hasten to add I like it alot.
Using Mineral Mud which is similar to Miracle mud but at a decent price. So far it's working a treat with the tank looking better than ever and the growth rates are fabulous are increasing to a decent rate.
However, I don't think that system is better than a DSB/skimmer system, just different. I like the idea of having no skimmer and using algae to do the work, suits me, interests me.
Kim, don't get hung up on science. If something works, then it works. Just because people can't possibly understand the amazingly intricate construction and workings of the human body, doesn't mean it's crap - it's probably the single most incredible thing in the world.
Its not if it works that is the debate for me. It works works for me without spending stupid money on mud when i can get sand at 10% of the price!
I have a system with a sump and with ordinary sand intsead of mm and the caulerpa grows like mad, and all without spending silly money on MUD!
Is it Ok to use Caribsea Aragamud with out a skimmer?
Originally posted by landk@Oct 15 2004, 08:15
Is it Ok to use Caribsea Aragamud with out a skimmer?
I do...
But there are two Caribsea products available... Mineral Mud and Aragamud... I use Aragamub and mine is definitely sand based...
Tim
How long was it, before you took your skimmer off your system?
using Aragamud.
:thanx:
Tank is 11 months old and never had a skimmer on it...
Tim
Thanks for the help.
I am looking forward to running the system with out a skimmer.
:thanx:
Just would like to add something for those of you just starting without skimmer. I have experimented removing skimmer from existing skimmer and noticed an increase in lill bugs. Now i also noticed an increase of turf like algae in tank even with fast growing macroalgae in sump. However there arent many herbivores in tank and im sure adding some would correct this. Also however lots of herbivores werent in tank before skimmer was removed and i didnt have the amount of algae. Macroalgae was still growing in sump with skimmer.
Thank you for the help.
I would gradually Take the skimmer off first.
Mainly the let the sump get more mature.
I would start by only skimming on a night.
Then every other night, etc, etc
To Gradually to take the skimmer off.
I will also purchase a Salifert Organics test kit. To make sure things are running right too. :D
I would personally skim during the day and not night if you want to skim only some of the time.
Thank you for the advice. :thumbsup:
I assume there is more waste during the day than night.
I only thought night because of feeding quite late, on some days.
Well if you are hoping to preseve suspended particulate matter to feed corals. then it makes sence not to skim at night so as not to remove these things. Aparently more things reproduce at night! well this is certainly human tradition!!! :wub:
Dont believe what i say though cuz i really dont know! This is just what ive read and been told and that might be wrong.
Oh and not to mention i might of interpreted what ive read wrongly too!
:thanx:
All the best Karl
:thumbsup:
autumcolours
15-12-04, 09:35
Originally posted by Shinken@Oct 15 2004, 05:53
Its not if it works that is the debate for me. It works works for me without spending stupid money on mud when i can get sand at 10% of the price!
I have a system with a sump and with ordinary sand intsead of mm and the caulerpa grows like mad, and all without spending silly money on MUD!
The price of MM becomes irrelevent for new setups cos there are NO expensive bits of gear to buy.
Keith.
P.S. I have run MM system for 4 years and for me the major bonus is no Calk probs, never been below 435 and has been up to 485.
Keith.
Sean the Prawn
15-12-04, 23:39
I agree with Keith. Yeh it may be pricey for it just being mud but it's offset by not having any outlay for a skimmer that could malfunction. Mud doesn't break.
Regards, Sean
simon garratt
16-12-04, 08:13
P.S. I have run MM system for 4 years and for me the major bonus is no Calk probs, never been below 435 and has been up to 485.
Keith, In what way does MM limit/control Ca depletion?
Regards
Si. :)
I was begging to ask this... is MM not just desert sand?.... no calcium component?.....
Elliot
Originally posted by elliot@Dec 16 2004, 09:51
I was begging to ask this... is MM not just desert sand?.... no calcium component?.....
Elliot
MM is mainly aragonite mud/sand with some laterite, I think. Supposedly the extremely intense and dense microbial population in the mud releases sufficient calcium to maintain a reasonable level in the tank. What numbers of sps/lps do you have Keith?
Other types of mud also claim to release some essential minerals too, such as Caribsea mineral mud.
Personally I find that my mdu sump doesn't keep up with calcium demand and defo can't keep up with the loss of dKH so I also run a calcium reactor and ARM
Kev
Edit: Actually, I'm not sure of the aragonite content of Miracle Mud, but Mineral mud certianly contains lots of aragonite
I have had the chance to compare two systems recently. A pretty standard Berlin system that is Live rock, skimmer and NO sand bed at all Compared to my old setup that had a pretty large remote (not in tank) DSB with a large culerpa bed.
I must say that my tank with the large culerpa bed was far more succesfull than current berlin system.
The skimmer on my previous tank did not pull much gunk out due to the algea filter, if I did a big tank again I would certainly use a REMOTE DSB (no mechanical filter between tank and DSB) with a good growth of culerpa.
Unfourtunatly I have not had chance to compare DSB/Algea bed to a MM sump but I would vouch for the DSB/Algea solution.
Originally posted by simonm@Dec 16 2004, 22:37
I have had the chance to compare two systems recently. A pretty standard Berlin system that is Live rock, skimmer and NO sand bed at all Compared to my old setup that had a pretty large remote (not in tank) DSB with a large culerpa bed.
I must say that my tank with the large culerpa bed was far more succesfull than current berlin system.
The skimmer on my previous tank did not pull much gunk out due to the algea filter, if I did a big tank again I would certainly use a REMOTE DSB (no mechanical filter between tank and DSB) with a good growth of culerpa.
Unfourtunatly I have not had chance to compare DSB/Algea bed to a MM sump but I would vouch for the DSB/Algea solution.
Hi
What is meant by when people say REMOTE DSB ? :thumbsup: no skimmer at all ? or am i on the wrong track ?
Martin
Sorry Remote DSB is a DSB that is NOT located in your main tank. In my case it was located in a seperate sump to my "Main" sump. I still used a skimmer. Ron smecht (sorry cant rem spelling of his surname) stated that remote DSB's would not work but, I thought that if there was no mechanical filter (wool, guase etc) between maintank and DSB it would be just as effective as an in tank DSB.
In the end Im pretty sure though that my Culerpa bed and Not the DSB was the main benificial filter on my old tank.
I have a dsb in my sump, never had faith in MM, If I cant have full details on how something works I just cant use it, Like water Supplements if you cant test it dont dose it, same with MM for me there arnt enough fact/figures of whats in it and how it works.
JMO
Regards Steve
Originally posted by sgl101@Dec 17 2004, 08:18
I have a dsb in my sump, never had faith in MM, If I cant have full details on how something works I just cant use it, Like water Supplements if you cant test it dont dose it, same with MM for me there arnt enough fact/figures of whats in it and how it works.
JMO
Regards Steve
The fact that it works and has been shown to many times was good enough for me. It's not for everyone though, just an alternative way of doing things :)
autumcolours
17-12-04, 18:07
Originally posted by Kevster+Dec 17 2004, 09:31--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kevster @ Dec 17 2004, 09:31)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-sgl101@Dec 17 2004, 08:18
I have a dsb in my sump, never had faith in MM, If I cant have full details on how something works I just cant use it, Like water Supplements if you cant test it dont dose it, same with MM for me there arnt enough fact/figures of whats in it and how it works.
JMO
Regards Steve
The fact that it works and has been shown to many times was good enough for me. It's not for everyone though, just an alternative way of doing things :) [/b][/quote]
Here, her, the biggest suspicion reefers have is that something so simple cant work, well it does and as I have said before, for me the best things are, its cheap, very stable and absolutly no Calc probs.
Keith.
simon garratt
18-12-04, 09:49
Keith, I still dont get the Ca connection.
In the test systems, they were adding Ca seperately.
400gal test tank (http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/400.html)
120gal test tank (http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/120.html)
Maybe im missing something but are you saying you dont need to have a Ca reactor or stirrer for this system.
Regards
Si.
Sean the Prawn
18-12-04, 11:09
Originally posted by sgl101@Dec 17 2004, 08:18
I have a dsb in my sump, never had faith in MM, If I cant have full details on how something works I just cant use it, Like water Supplements if you cant test it dont dose it, same with MM for me there arnt enough fact/figures of whats in it and how it works.
JMO
Regards Steve
Not knowing what the secret ingredient in Kentucky Fried Chicken is ain't going to stop me eating it!
reefy mark
18-12-04, 11:57
well, i am fitting a sump over the christmas holls, and i am not sure what to put in SO i think i am going to buy a small tub of MM and a bag if living sand, mix them together and see what that is like!
has anybody else tried this??
will it be ok??
mark
Well I will be using a mud sump in my next tank. Never used all the multitude of gadgets that many seem to be stuck on and never had any problems. Even ran a prism on my last tank, didnt pull much out but still had no problems. Admittedly mainly softies and just a few sps but only added a squirt of calc every month.
I have no probs with doing without a skimmer in future. Roy has a MM show tank in Interfish thats been running since it opened. Looks great.
Mark.
autumcolours
18-12-04, 21:02
Originally posted by simon garratt@Dec 18 2004, 10:01
Keith, I still dont get the Ca connection.
In the test systems, they were adding Ca seperately.
400gal test tank (http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/400.html)
120gal test tank (http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/120.html)
Maybe im missing something but are you saying you dont need to have a Ca reactor or stirrer for this system.
Regards
Si.
Can only speak from experience, have never had to buffer calc, its range is between 435 to 490. I have about 20% hard corals the rest soft. Theres the MM sump and a lot of L/R. there is no mechanical eqipment at all (exept for 3 return pumps in the sump) The tank is VERY heavily fed
Keith.
simon garratt
18-12-04, 22:20
wow. look at those Ca readings.
Any chance of you doing a full range of tests? Id be genuinly interested in seeing what its like across the board so to speak.
Regards
Si.
autumcolours
19-12-04, 00:58
Originally posted by simon garratt@Dec 18 2004, 22:32
wow. look at those Ca readings.
Any chance of you doing a full range of tests? Id be genuinly interested in seeing what its like across the board so to speak.
Regards
Si.
Ph 8.3, Amonia nill. phosphate nil. will do a few more as soon as I get the time.
Keith.
Blimey 22 people believe in miracle's! :cheers:
i have to say that i added a small MM sump lit 24 hrs with caleurpa and chaeto......works a treat.
my skimmer hardly pulls anything out anymore...useed to work overtime.
calcium readings also dont seem to drop off much when i dont use my reactor either.
i would highly reccomend it as i was sceptical when it was advised to me by tim hayes just over a year ago......approx £45 a tub back then as well...."HOW MUCH??????"
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Looking at the recommended flow rates on the MM web site - they are in the order of 20x tank volume per hour - pretty rapid turnover for a sump. What do you peeps using miracle mud use? This much or less?
Originally posted by Stevielad@Dec 21 2004, 21:45
Looking at the recommended flow rates on the MM web site - they are in the order of 20x tank volume per hour - pretty rapid turnover for a sump. What do you peeps using miracle mud use? This much or less?
Mine is about 7x tank volume per hour. I don't think the recommended flow is normally quoted in terms of tank volumes per hour though....more like flow per cross-sectional area or cm per second. This way you acheive a certain speed of the water over the mud and through the macro algaes which will take account of the size of the sump. Otherwise, if working only in tank volumes per hour, someone using a relatively narrow sump would find it quite impossible to stop the mud being washed away, while someone with a really wide-but-short sump might find that their macro algaes were growing rather sparce and loosly as they are not being pressed into a dense mat by the flow.
At least, that's how I understand it and it seems to work pretty well for me.
Kev
BTW, the turnover in the tank itself is about 35x per hour
Originally posted by Stevielad@Dec 21 2004, 21:45
Looking at the recommended flow rates on the MM web site - they are in the order of 20x tank volume per hour - pretty rapid turnover for a sump. What do you peeps using miracle mud use? This much or less?
my sump/fuge has a vey low turnover of approx 5x an hour.
the show tank approx 35x an hour with stream and maxijets.
Sean the Prawn
27-01-05, 14:21
Just wondering what kind of results people are having with filter feeding corals in their miracle mud systems compared to systems that are heavily skimmed? I ask this as a friend of mine gave me his sun coral this week because it wasn't doing very well in his tank. He'd had it about 3 months and I had only ever seen it extend it's polyps once. Even then it didn't really come out much. I have one in my tank that's doing great swells up to double it's size whenever I feed the fish, really healthy looking coral. I think this is the reason he gave me his, to try and revive it or at least prolong it's life. I didnt hold out much hope to be honest. Within 24 hours it had extended it's polyps more than it ever had in my mate's tank. I've only target fed it once since he gave me it 4 days ago but it keeps coming out just like my other coral. Looks a lot healthier already and I think it will make it. Has anyone else got any similar experiences? I could be wrong but my bet is that there just wasn't enough food in the water in my friend's skimmed system as there is in my miracle mud system. Any opinions?
Regards
Sean
it could be his water conditions though what were his parameters compared to yours.
Sean the Prawn
28-01-05, 12:51
Pretty much exactly the same. Use the same salt too. He's got some sps corals in and they're doing well. The only difference I can think of is the fact that my system isn't skimmed. I have quite a bit of particulate matter floating around because of this (I think!) whereas my mate's is crystal clear. Maybe my system is suited to filter feeders but my mate's is suited to corals needing clear nutrient free water? Conversely maybe I won't have much success with acros. Hmm.
Sean
Does MM ever have to be replaced with new mud??
Sean the Prawn
31-01-05, 18:46
You have to replace at least half of it once every 12 months (I think!).
Sean
Sean the Prawn
09-02-05, 13:28
That's weird. That last post of mine about replacing the mud jus showed up when I hit View New Posts. It said I posted it today at 12.08. :blink: I was walking round ikea at that time. When I lokked at the post it still had the original date on it, Jan 31st.
What's going on?
Sean
Sean the Prawn
09-02-05, 15:08
It did it again!
I've been using a 'mineral mud' sump with algae for about 9 months now and its a fabulous system. It does take a leap of faith to go skimmerless but it really does work well. I've had good acropora growth even though my flow and lighting doesn't really suit SPS. Everything else is going well too.
Chevvy Lover
31-05-05, 15:35
I use both a 3 ft dsb with 4" aragamix bed, and a 4 " mir mud and min mud mix.
And no skimmer now for about 5 months, the only mechanical filtration i use is a uv and a fr509, i dont know why i use the fr509, suppose i just like hording equipment.
Anthony
acro-poorer
31-05-05, 19:13
there was a thread on mm about 18 month ago on r\c tests showed it containedf a very larg amount on quarz which is totaly inert???????
iirc the amounts where between 20-25% which does if nothing else constitute a rip off some where
any way i use neither coral crowth and colour i am more than happy with parameters couldn`t be better :P
so why would i need a dsb or mm in my sump :D
I've found Aragamud to work just as well as MM but it's not realy mud just aragonite sand with black bits which I presume are some form of Iron.
Well for what its worth I started with a DSB which didnt seem to work very well. I changed to mineral mud and macro algae and the tank seemed much better. I do however also run a skinner during the day. Its been like it for months now and i've had zero problems, no water changes and all levels are at zero. Coral growth is good and everything looks happy and healthy.
Im no expert, but it deffo works for me !
Im still contemplating whether I should do water changes, but with levels perfect and all going well, why bother ?
I do add trace elements and have a calcium reactor etc.
does a MM sump become biologically active like a dsb would?
Yes, but sometimes with different critters as the particle sizes are smaller...
Well for what its worth I started with a DSB which didnt seem to work very well. I changed to mineral mud and macro algae and the tank seemed much better. I do however also run a skinner during the day. Its been like it for months now and i've had zero problems, no water changes and all levels are at zero. Coral growth is good and everything looks happy and healthy.
If like me you want to run a skimmer part time would it be better to run it during the daytime or after lights out - night time.
Your Thoughts Please
Night time would appear to be a sensible option from an oxygen level point of view, as this is when alage uses oxygen instead of producing it. However there may be more plankton present in the water column at night which would be a possible reason to go for day time running.
Faced with the decision I would leave it on all the time :lol:
does a MM bed need to be of a certain size like a dsb to efficiently work? and what kind of depth does it need to be? the more i think about it the more im attracted to the eco system method
If you are using macroalgae for your nutrient export then yes you do have to have enough to provide adequete nutrient removal. The bigger the better really, if you are going to skimp then you will probably end up needing a skimmer too anyway.
I try to aim for my algae bed to be 1/3 of the area of the tank... Depth is less important than a dsb, and some suggestions say keep it shallow to avaid anarobic activity...
Water depth is also less important, as the algae can only grow where it gets light...
has anyone ever mixed mud into a dsb?
Originally posted by weegaz22@Aug 20 2005, 15:23
has anyone ever mixed mud into a dsb?
Mineral mud is mud,it is dug up from someones garden (which is a prehistoric mangorve area), then dried.
Mushed
Originally posted by Mushed+Aug 31 2005, 15:27--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mushed @ Aug 31 2005, 15:27)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-weegaz22@Aug 20 2005, 15:23
has anyone ever mixed mud into a dsb?
Mineral mud is mud,it is dug up from someones garden (which is a prehistoric mangorve area), then dried.
Mushed [/b][/quote]
whats that got to do with the quesion i asked? :blink:
I ran a 35 gallon tank with 10g MM bed/refugium for over a year and the tank was very successful before I had to break it down.
When I get my next system (a little bigger hopefully) I will DEFINITELY use a MM system - the coral growth and health were superb and the ecosystem's range of small creatures was amazing!
I haven't met anyone yet who has tried the MM approach and is not really pleased with the results (although I did note one of the previous contributors to this thread is removing his <_< ).
It's also difficult to gauge the success objectively as the MM system was my third marine tank and lots of lessons were learned from the previous 2 that may explain at least some of the success without attributing it ALL to the use of MM.
However, the system worked very well for me and I will be using it again!
IIRC the turnover of water between tank and sump was around 7x per hour. The tank turnover was 30x plus.
HTH
John
autumcolours
05-09-05, 01:17
Originally posted by zimreef@Sep 4 2005, 22:01
I ran a 35 gallon tank with 10g MM bed/refugium for over a year and the tank was very successful before I had to break it down.
When I get my next system (a little bigger hopefully) I will DEFINITELY use a MM system - the coral growth and health were superb and the ecosystem's range of small creatures was amazing!
I haven't met anyone yet who has tried the MM approach and is not really pleased with the results (although I did note one of the previous contributors to this thread is removing hisÂ* <_< ).
It's also difficult to gauge the success objectively as the MM system was my third marine tank and lots of lessons were learned from the previous 2 that may explain at least some of the success without attributing it ALL to the use of MM.
However, the system worked very well for me and I will be using it again!
IIRC the turnover of water between tank and sump was around 7x per hour. The tank turnover was 30x plus.
HTH
John
I have used MM for about 5 years, there are many reasons I love it.
1. No expensive equipment to buy and defiantly NO skimmer.
2. Never have to buffer ANYTHING (buffering always seems to upset other parameters)
3. Calcium never below 435.
4. Present 300 gal reef has had NO WATER CHANGES FOR 15 MONTHS.
5. Fish, Corals n Critters thrive.
6. Caulerpa thrives, particularly Cheto.
Downside? Nobody believes I don’t buffer.
Downside2 If the Caulerpa look crowded, thin it out there and then, if you leave it sure enough it will crash very soon.
Too good to believe? Believe me it WORKS or should I say it works for me.
Check out the Interview with Mr. Leng Sy inventor of Mud Filtration: http://www.athiel.com/lib7/lengsy.htm
Keith.
Keith,
If you don't add calcium or water change, then how after 15 months does it stay at a constant level?
Do you check your oxygen levels or run an airstone?
Kev
autumcolours
05-09-05, 08:42
Originally posted by arctic@Sep 5 2005, 06:58
Keith,
If you don't add calcium or water change, then how after 15 months does it stay at a constant level?
Do you check your oxygen levels or run an airstone?
Kev
Have absolutely no idea why it works so well; the only thing I am certain of is that skimmers deplete lots of things.
No air stone but there is a large Tuze Stream that occasionally sucks down a vortex that produces a huge burst of very fine bubbles so no point in checking oxygen.
As to depth of MM bed, no more than one inch and its recommended to replace 50% every two years although I suspect it could be longer. Also suspect that the MM plays less of a part than is claimed.
300 gl tank + 75 gl sump turned over by three 1260s.
Keith.
If I ran a system without a skimmer I'd check the oxygen levels, because although the tank looks good e.t.c. from reading it seems likely that the oxygen levels will get pretty low at night.
What are your nitrate levels like? How often do you check your parameters and what do you check?
From what I can gather from a few fairly quickly read articles, the way MM works is by using the Algea as the means of export, do you harvest your calurpa and remove it every now and then? The actual MM does contain a mix of minerals but is mostly inert. I guess you know when to change some of your MM when the tank growth e.t.c slows down. Maybe MM and regular water changes (to top up the mineral levels) would be a good compromise?
I can't work out where the calcium is coming from if you have algea- coralline, calurpa and corals e.t.c which remove calcium and your sump is full of mainly inert substrate, how can it keep at a constant level? It can't. Unless its coming from something in the MM or somewhere else.
I'm interested in hearing what you think the skimmer removes? I'm guessing phyto e.t.c. as well as doc's.
I know loads of people sucessfully run MM systems, and systems without skimmers I'd just like to work out the details that make them work sucessfully.
Keith please don't think I'm criticising, I'm just interested in finding out a bit more about MM systems and how they differ from other systems.
Was going to pop into your shop the other day after seeing Hassan but ran out of time.
Time to get back to work!
Kev
does anyone run a MM system with a skimmer? :thumbsup: Nick
Never have... Only the mud bed...
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