View Full Version : Raising Calcium Levels
craighuckins
12-01-05, 09:31
I am having problems with my calcium levels. I finally obtained a calcium test kit (xmas) and tested the levels, was horrified to find it at 200ppm (yes, that's right. :o ) and have since been using aragamight in my top off water to gradually raise calcium levels. But now they are only at 300ppm. Is it worth dripping kalk overnight to raise the level to 400ppm, then just let the aragamight maintain levels? If so, how quickly should I be looking at raising the levels without stressing fish? How much calcium hydroxide should I use? 1 tsp per night or what? Alternative is to keep removing tank water 5 litres a time, mixing with aragamight then pouring the clear water back in. The tank has been set up since June 23rd and was set up with Instant ocean, which is probably where the calcium problem lies, I have now switched to Kent! Any advice would be greatly received.
Originally posted by craighuckins@Jan 12 2005, 09:31
The tank has been set up since June 23rd and was set up with Instant ocean, which is probably where the calcium problem lies, I have now switched to Kent! Any advice would be greatly received.
It may, reputedly, have deficient levels of calcium, but that isn't where the problem lies.
You've only just got a test kit and had the thing half a year.
First things first, what are your other parameters regarding Magnesium and DkH?
Best edit your signature !!
Matt
Craig
What is your alkalinity? What is your Mg?
Something does not seem right here... you dont seem to have much in the tank to take up the calcium.
Regular water changes should keep up with your demand.....
If your Mg is good > 1250ppm, then you could certainly use kalk to bring the alkalinity and calcium back up....
If I were you I would try weekly water changes till you get back into the right zone... Its a pain.. and pricey on the salt! But at least it is slow and controlled.
e
craighuckins
12-01-05, 11:07
I know I should have them but don't have magnesium or alkalinity test kits yet...Which is why I wanted to use aragamight which is a 10 micron aragonite powder and apparently balances magnesium and alkalinity with calcium.......I am doing 10% water changes weekly now to try and get things to reasonable levels. Although the calcium is low pH is staying stable at 8.0 which would suggest that the alkalinity reserves are OK? I know I shouldn't be guessing but being new to the hobby and having limited funds at the moment is making things a compromise. I am putting calcium consumption down to the fact that I have stomatellas and turbos breeding like mad at the mo, constructing their shells must consume quite a bit of calcium? Also starting with bare rock and now having 70% coralline coverage, it all has an impact upon calcium levels? As I understand it Instant ocean only has a maximum amount of about 320ppm calcium, whereas Kent has 400ppm,so hopefully I should be able to balance things with regular water changes and addition of aragonite through top-off. I had not water changed much during the first four months as this is what the plenum experts advise...
You could certainly use kalk .... which would help bring the calcium back up.
But as calcium , alkalinity and magnesium are tightly related... until you know your alkalinity - I would not do anything.
Sounds like your chemistry is pretty out of whack ... as your alkalinity and calcium should be in balance.
In order to advise with any meanigful thoughts.....I think your alk and Mg readings are vital!
Sorry
elliot
craighuckins
12-01-05, 12:17
Elliot, no need to say sorry! I know that my alk. & mag. levels are important. Think I might get the test kits at the end of the month when I get paid. Until then think I'll just keep up the water changing with the kent salt which has good levels of calcium, alkalinity and magnesium, and adding the aragonite through top-off as this will help buffer to NSW levels. As I mentioned earlier, through doing this calcium is gradually rising as has pH which is at 8.0 and is still slowly climbing. I guess it can't hurt to have the calcium up to 400-450ppm and pH to 8.2-3 with this method if what I am adding is ionically balanced untill I can measure individual levels. I have buffers made up of calcium carbonate and epsom salts but obviously am not going to add these untill I can test for them..asking for trouble...!
Ignore the Ph to be honest..... focus on
1. Mg is above 1250
2. Then get calcium and alk into balance (whether its balanced at 350 or 400 is not important yet)
3. Start dosing a balanced additive
Your ph will take care of itself.
FWIW ... any good lfs will test as many times as you want.... :)
E
craighuckins
13-01-05, 14:59
Elliot, the aragamight additive is an ionically balanced additive which should buffer alk, calc and mag. to seawater levels...I don't really have a LFS as my nearest one is a 37 mile drive over the moors...!
Your additive will only work if you start from a balanced position!!! If you know what I mean...
Elliot
Marc Foord
13-01-05, 16:35
in case it helps in some way, when i first set up my current tank, when originally tested the calcium was 320
i was recommended salifert coral calcium, a capful each morning and evening for a week, and within a week it was up to 420
salifert site gives details
"
About Coral Calcium
We have highly concentrated this supplement. In fact a higher concentration is impossible to achieve. Each liter contains approx. 160,000 mg of calcium. You will appreciate this when you consider that an average aquarium depletes 5-8 mg of calcium per liter, each week.
To avoid an ionic imbalance, we properly balance the calcium with ions such as sulfate, chloride, bromide, sodium and magnesium.
All ingredients are of a pharmaceutical quality or even better. This ensures that no unwanted elements are added to your valuable aquarium.
Right after you have dosed this supplement the calcium is immediately for the full 100% available to your corals and other calcium requiring organisms.
"
craighuckins
14-01-05, 09:19
Ahh, Elliot I understand now! I was under the impression aragamight would sort out the balance...looks like those test kits are becoming a more urgent purchase.......! All I can do for now though is water change and keep adding aragamight in top off water and monitor pH and calcium levels. I am doing a 10% change twice weekly with Kent salt so hopefullt this should help sort things out!
I too have tested and found my Ca low, i am doing weekly water changes until i can test properly and take appropriate action.
From what i can gather i need to test for
Ca,
alk - KH
Mg
ph
can anyone recomend the best test kits, bearing in mind value for money etc,
i have used the hagen ones in the past and like the titration style measurements but am not sure about their accuracy, have heard people recomend salifert also.
cheers :thumbsup:
Eddie
salifert has to be the best value for money there is.
i have used them for a couple of years and tbh i have had fairly good results.
:thumbsup:
Hi
I was directed to this site recently.
http://www.andy-hipkiss.co.uk/
Even though I had read loads I wasn't clear on the relationships. It doesn't cover everything, and I needed additional stuff from Elliot and Kim but all seems clear now. (I think)
craighuckins
17-01-05, 09:45
Just to update, through just the water changes and aragamight top-off my calcium is now up to 350ppm, and slowly & steadily rising. A family member has just started up a pet shop and is getting me any dry goods like salifert kits at trade price :dance: so should have them soon! just hope I'm out of the danger zone....!
Hi,
Just passing and saw this.
QUOTE (Hopefully upgrading to 2 x 150w 6500k with 1 x 150w 50,000k centre in next week or so!) :o
You say you cannot afford test kits? But you are upgrading lights.? :o
Would it not be better to get the proper kits etc and leave the lights for another time ? :rolleyes:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
craighuckins
17-01-05, 12:16
When you are offered 2 x 150w halides with bulbs for the total of 52 euros (£35) inc. shipping you just can't say no...................
Originally posted by craighuckins@Jan 17 2005, 12:16
When you are offered 2 x 150w halides with bulbs for the total of 52 euros (£35) inc. shipping you just can't say no...................
You sure about these bits of kit?
One ballast from Harry Hird comers out at that price, let alone 2 with bulbs ignitors and casing !!!!!
Matt
Craig
Sorry, I didn't see this thread earlier.
If you want, post me a water sample and I'll test it for you. The trouble with the Mag test kit is that it is top price and you may only use it once or twice.
Col
craighuckins
18-01-05, 09:20
QUOTE: If you want, post me a water sample and I'll test it for you. The trouble with the Mag test kit is that it is top price and you may only use it once or twice.
Col
Thanks, Col! trouble is though, it's one thing to know levels then not be able to do anything as I won't be able to measure results of additives.... I though the salifert mag test was about £10 and the alkalinity about £5?
craighuckins
18-01-05, 09:27
Originally posted by xxmattyxx+Jan 17 2005, 14:22--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (xxmattyxx @ Jan 17 2005, 14:22)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-craighuckins@Jan 17 2005, 12:16
When you are offered 2 x 150w halides with bulbs for the total of 52 euros (£35) inc. shipping you just can't say no...................
You sure about these bits of kit?
One ballast from Harry Hird comers out at that price, let alone 2 with bulbs ignitors and casing !!!!!
Matt [/b][/quote]
QUOTE: 'You sure about these bits of kit?
One ballast from Harry Hird comers out at that price, let alone 2 with bulbs ignitors and casing !!!!!'
Yeah I'm sure about them, they are good condition secondhand units from germany. They have tridonic ballasts, not sure what the bulbs are though but hgardly a hardship as I can get aqua-medic 20,000k 150w for £18 brand new :thumbsup: from a mate who runs a small aquatics business from home...just shows how much profit some shops are whacking on there....The lights came from the german ebay www.ebay.de - there are so many of them over there they go very cheap. P&P from deutschland was about £9 for the pair...my brother has just transferred the cash to his business account so should have the new lights within the week... :dance:
Originally posted by craighuckins@Jan 18 2005, 09:20
QUOTE: If you want, post me a water sample and I'll test it for you. The trouble with the Mag test kit is that it is top price and you may only use it once or twice.
Col
Thanks, Col! trouble is though, it's one thing to know levels then not be able to do anything as I won't be able to measure results of additives.... I though the salifert mag test was about £10 and the alkalinity about £5?
Craig,
20 quid for two kits you will use once a week.... bargain IMO.....
I personally dont advocate running a system without being fully armed with all the information.... its hard enough already ;)
elliot
craighuckins
18-01-05, 12:03
QUOTE: 'I personally dont advocate running a system without being fully armed with all the information.... its hard enough already'
Yeah, I know. But if I was going to wait till I had 'all the information' I would still not have the system up and running. Sometimes you have to make compromises.... I have a 1 year old daughter and money is tight. And before anyone gets on their high horses, and start throwing statements to the effect of there are no compromises in reefkeeping..I can see it on their lips.. It's easy to make judgements when you have the cash available to get what you need when you need it.
Originally posted by craighuckins@Jan 18 2005, 12:03
QUOTE: 'I personally dont advocate running a system without being fully armed with all the information.... its hard enough already'
Yeah, I know. But if I was going to wait till I had 'all the information' I would still not have the system up and running. Sometimes you have to make compromises.... I have a 1 year old daughter and money is tight. And before anyone gets on their high horses, and start throwing statements to the effect of there are no compromises in reefkeeping..I can see it on their lips.. It's easy to make judgements when you have the cash available to get what you need when you need it.
Have a mosey through that.
Lighting compromises (http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=20165)
Matt
Craig
No problems mate. If your mag was ok you wouldn't need to buy a test kit for now, that's all I was thinking.
craighuckins
19-01-05, 09:40
Hi Colin! Oh Yeah, I hadn't thought of that :blink: I have got my friend going to the warehouse so will probably end up with mag. & alk test kits for about a fiver for both which I can't complain about! Thanks for the offer though mate much appreciated. My calcium level is up to about 375ppm now so I'm getting there, pH is still sticking at 8.0 though, so it will be nice to know.....
craighuckins
19-01-05, 12:26
I have ordered alkalinity and mag test kits today. I tested calcium last night and it is now up to 375 ish (test kit only goes in 50ppm intervals and it is between 350 and 400 ppm...going to aim for between 400 & 450...According to andy hipkiss's Kalkulator(sic.) I still need 35 tespoons of calcium hydroxide in the tank- he recommends no more than 20ppm per day rise so 7 teaspoons per day... jeez that's a lot!
Originally posted by craighuckins@Jan 19 2005, 12:26
I have ordered alkalinity and mag test kits today. I tested calcium last night and it is now up to 375 ish (test kit only goes in 50ppm intervals and it is between 350 and 400 ppm...going to aim for between 400 & 450...According to andy hipkiss's Kalkulator(sic.) I still need 35 tespoons of calcium hydroxide in the tank- he recommends no more than 20ppm per day rise so 7 teaspoons per day... jeez that's a lot!
Before trying to raise your calcium levels, ensure your magensium is sufficient, otherwise that calcium additive you wanna chuck in just as well go in at 20 spoons a day, with no effect whatsoever.
Also, if I were you I'd make sure your alkalinity is adjusted in line with the adjustments that your making with the calium, raising calcium without adjusting alkalinity as well, if its needed is pointless, they need to be in balance.
Also, if your calcium test kit, which ever one it is, only shows gradients of 50ppm, bin it, how can you tell if your calcium and alkalinity are in balance if theres no accuracy??
HTH
Matt
You know that you don't add calcium hydroxide directly to the tank, I'm sure, but thought that I should say it anyway.
Normally you'd use calcium chloride to raise calcium, and the hydroxide (aka kalkwasser) to raise both calcium and alkalinity.
kim
craighuckins
20-01-05, 10:33
yeah kim I know that one but thanks anyway....I add kalk via mixing with vinegar, dilute with 1 litre RO then drip in slowly (takes about 5 hours to empty), using a needle valve to the venturi of a powerhead..works really well for dipersing.
QUOTE:'Also, if your calcium test kit, which ever one it is, only shows gradients of 50ppm, bin it, how can you tell if your calcium and alkalinity are in balance if theres no accuracy??'
I'm stuck with it for the mo! It was from NT labs just so you all know..... It wasn't that cheap and didn't say on the website that the increments were so large....
craighuckins
20-01-05, 11:03
QUOTE:'Also, if your calcium test kit, which ever one it is, only shows gradients of 50ppm, bin it, how can you tell if your calcium and alkalinity are in balance if theres no accuracy??'
ARRGH! I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN! THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 400 & 450 PPM CALCIUM IS 5.6 & 12.6 DKH RESPECTIVELY! I'M GETTING REALLY SICK OF THIS SH!T IT'S NEVER ENDING...IT'S TAKING AWAY THE PLEASURE OF KEEPING THE REEF...
The calcium kit returns results by dropping a third solution in and noting colour change..The colour goes from pink to blue, and I have noted that I can diffrentiate three increments of blue, from a just-a-say change to a pale blue through a strong blue to royal blue, but it would still mean I'm guessing... So, assuming there's no way in hell I can obtain another calcium test kit this month, what is the answer? If I adjust calcium so the change just occurs at 400ppm, it should be fairly close, then go for a dkh of 5.6 and magnesium of 1350 surely this has got to be better than levels that are no-where near? I know it's not ideal but surely it's got to be an improvement? I'm planning a 30% water change this weekend with Kent salt so hopefully this should help levels a bit- once I've got them in balance i'm now using aragamight to kepp them in balance- asuuming that my tank will consume ca, alk & mg at a balanced rate..very unlikely!
Please give me some help on this, I've only been keeping reef 6 month..I know I need a better calcium test kit but what i don't need is telling this.. I need some suggestions for a compromise..... :(
Craig
It's easy to lose your way by chasing numbers.
Did I read earlier that you had a problem when you returned from holiday? In this case your tank will need to settle down again.
I know nothing about argamite or adding vinegar and kalk, sounds way too complicated to me. I simply use calcium, magnesium, dkh buffer or additives IF I need them then drip kalk every night in my top up water.
I haven't needed to add anything but the kalk lately, looks like my system has settled. At one point my alk was droppin to 4dkh.
That offer is still on if you wanna send me a sample.
Col
Originally posted by craighuckins@Jan 20 2005, 11:03
QUOTE:'Also, if your calcium test kit, which ever one it is, only shows gradients of 50ppm, bin it, how can you tell if your calcium and alkalinity are in balance if theres no accuracy??'
ARRGH! I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN! THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 400 & 450 PPM CALCIUM IS 5.6 & 12.6 DKH RESPECTIVELY! I'M GETTING REALLY SICK OF THIS SH!T IT'S NEVER ENDING...IT'S TAKING AWAY THE PLEASURE OF KEEPING THE REEF...
The calcium kit returns results by dropping a third solution in and noting colour change..The colour goes from pink to blue, and I have noted that I can diffrentiate three increments of blue, from a just-a-say change to a pale blue through a strong blue to royal blue, but it would still mean I'm guessing... So, assuming there's no way in hell I can obtain another calcium test kit this month, what is the answer? If I adjust calcium so the change just occurs at 400ppm, it should be fairly close, then go for a dkh of 5.6 and magnesium of 1350 surely this has got to be better than levels that are no-where near? I know it's not ideal but surely it's got to be an improvement? I'm planning a 30% water change this weekend with Kent salt so hopefully this should help levels a bit- once I've got them in balance i'm now using aragamight to kepp them in balance- asuuming that my tank will consume ca, alk & mg at a balanced rate..very unlikely!
Please give me some help on this, I've only been keeping reef 6 month..I know I need a better calcium test kit but what i don't need is telling this.. I need some suggestions for a compromise..... :(
First step, check your magnesium levels, as has been said earlier, no point chucking shed loads of calcium or carbonate in if the magnesium is low.
Test it, re-post the results.
Why are you doing a 30% water change, if theres nothing that you KNOW of thats wrong why mend it?
30% is actually quite large, and if unnecessary will stress the inhabitants with no need. If youre spending that much on salt, divert your funds to quality test-kits.
Matt
craighuckins
20-01-05, 15:28
I was going to do the 30% change to try and balance out levels as Kent salt is known to be high regarding ca, mag, alk, just thought it might help? I get my salt at £35 for a 25 kilo bucket, just bought one as I had run out ...I normally do 10% change every week/fortnight. A kind friend from ultimatereef has offered to test a sample for me (thanks colin!)- will get a post up when I know results. Thanks all.
craighuckins
27-01-05, 11:50
>>BUMP<< I have ordered salifert test kits for alk & mag but still have not arrived (they weren't in stock..) so in the meantime coling has generously tested a sample via post :thumbsup: thanks, mate! results were:
Magnesium - 1120
Calcium - 320
Alk - 14.4 dkh. 5.14 mEq/l
Using Mr.Hipkiss's calculators, alk of 14.4dkh would require a calcium level of 468ppm. If I slowly raise my magnesium levels with epsom salts, should the calcium rise to this level? Or do I need to raise this with kalk?
Originally posted by craighuckins@Jan 27 2005, 11:50
>>BUMP<< I have ordered salifert test kits for alk & mag but still have not arrived (they weren't in stock..) so in the meantime coling has generously tested a sample via post :thumbsup: thanks, mate! results were:
Magnesium - 1120
Calcium - 320
Alk - 14.4 dkh. 5.14 mEq/l
Using Mr.Hipkiss's calculators, alk of 14.4dkh would require a calcium level of 468ppm. If I slowly raise my magnesium levels with epsom salts, should the calcium rise to this level? Or do I need to raise this with kalk?
Get your Magnesium up FIRST.
Then check the levels of your Calcium and DkH.
See if theyre in balance.
Report the findings and take it from there.
Matt
Originally posted by craighuckins@Jan 27 2005, 11:50
>>BUMP<< I have ordered salifert test kits for alk & mag but still have not arrived (they weren't in stock..) so in the meantime coling has generously tested a sample via post :thumbsup: thanks, mate! results were:
Magnesium - 1120
Calcium - 320
Alk - 14.4 dkh. 5.14 mEq/l
Using Mr.Hipkiss's calculators, alk of 14.4dkh would require a calcium level of 468ppm. If I slowly raise my magnesium levels with epsom salts, should the calcium rise to this level? Or do I need to raise this with kalk?
Add epsom sault will have little impact on calcium.
e
craighuckins
27-01-05, 13:24
Quote:Add epsom sault will have little impact on calcium.
So what should I do then, Elliot? I was planning on raising the mag. by 50ppm per day (maximum recommended by a.hipkiss) then when I have a level of about 1325 starting to raise calcium with kalk addition (30ppm increase in calcium per day). What effect would you expect this to have on the alkalinity? regards, craig
Craig..
Yes and no! ;)
Yes get your Mg up...... that is first
Second - you need to tweak your calcium and alkalinity into balance... for you with such a high dKh - it would be easier to raise calcium up - using calcium chloride... as recommended by Andy.
Once things are in balance.... (use the calculator), then and only then used a balanced additive.
Hope you dont take this the wrong way... but do you understand what is meant by a balanced additive?
elliot
craighuckins
27-01-05, 14:49
quote:Hope you dont take this the wrong way... but do you understand what is meant by a balanced additive?
ermm, sort of. I think. I assumed it added calcium,alkalinity and magnesium in near to Nsw levels? Or are things a lot more complex?
WAY more complex... during calcification alkalinity and calcium are used up in ratio....
Therefore, al lyou need to do is get things in balance first... then you will know alk and ca will drop in the same ratio.
Now.. with kalk or a ca reactor.. these are balanced - as they replenish calcium and alk in the same ratio..... hence balanced :)
Mg is not related to the balanced additives.. and such you need to add it seperately... as MG is just as critical as alk and ca in reef chemistry.
I would read Andy's pages over and over... as once you have this sorted .. reef chemistry is a walk in the park....
e
Dunno if I've said this or asked this before (sorry if I have). I always thought that kalk Maintains levels rather than raises them.
I raised my levels with the correct buffers etc and I now drip kalk every night, the result being that I haven't had to buffer for ages now. At one point my alk was dropping to about 4dkh but I s l o w l y sorted things out.
Try dumping 5l liters of kalk into your tank and see what happens.....!!! NO DONT!
Coling - I answered your question above......kalk adds a "balanced" amount of calcium and alkalinity.....
Elliot
Btw Craig, if you wanna quote someone hit the 'Reply' tab.
Matt
craighuckins
28-01-05, 09:22
Cheers, guys. Thanks for the elucidation, Elliot! You can't tell my BA is in art history, not chemistry, can you? :D
So Elliot, what do you reckon of aragamight? the blurb is here:
http://www.mops.ca/products/WTCS-00520.htm
Is it going to do any good when I have levels balanced - or have I been sold something I really don't need?
What difference does it make to kalk if mixed with vinegar to form calcium acetate in relation to ca/alk balance? Are these just rendered more soluble in seawater?
Thanks all for your help! regards, craig.
Craig
Looks dodgy to me... may well be a balanced additive.. but it does not say it is..
Use kalk or a calcium reactor or a two part balanced additive.....IMO.
Using vinegar and kalk can be a good idea - increases the "potency" of the kalk solution
e
Glenn@home
28-01-05, 09:51
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 400 & 450 PPM CALCIUM IS 5.6 & 12.6 DKH RESPECTIVELY!
Not sure what this means? Calcium and Alk are linked but not to such an extent that the one is directly proportional to the other in the way suggested here at least i dont believe so i.e your level of Ca could be one figure and the alk is not necessarily going to be x.
For a good explanation of the relationship between alk and Ca you could do a lot worse than Andy Hs site and the Randy Holmes Farley paper (Or is it Farley Holmes, i still cant remember :lol: ) a link for which i think can be found in the faqs or else from the reef chemistry forum on RC.
The paper on Rc gives a diagramatic view of the relationship between Ca and ALk and shows that for a given level of Ca or Alk the other parameter is acceptable across a range of values.
THe RFH paper gives solutions to all balance problems related to these two parameters and simple ways of correcting.
Regarding Kalk only being able to maintain levels this is a widely reported myth imho and is probably related to poortly setup/running kalk stirrers producing unsaturated lime water.
Having fiddled with my DIY stirrer i can get close to a saturated kalk output and it impacts signficantly on my kalk and Ca in my 750 litres system if i dont replenish the CaOH regularly.
HTH
Glenn
Originally posted by Glenn@home@Jan 28 2005, 09:51
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 400 & 450 PPM CALCIUM IS 5.6 & 12.6 DKH RESPECTIVELY!
Not sure what this means? Calcium and Alk are linked but not to such an extent that the one is directly proportional to the other in the way suggested here at least i dont believe so i.e your level of Ca could be one figure and the alk is not necessarily going to be x.
Glenn, what is being said there I think is that Calcium and alkalinity are not directly linked, BUT that there is a balance between the two of them. In other words, just because one is running at one level doesn't automatically mean the other one is running at the balanced and correct level.
If they are in balance then they will adhere to their own individual levels, but that level will depend on what level the other one is running at.
The comment was related to the accuracy of a test kit being used to measure one of them, Calcium in this case, and if it was accurate enough when it could only be measured roughly by gradients of 50ppm.
If this is the case, take an example whereby the calcium testkit gives a reading of 400, but you dont really know how accurate that is as the next level of concentration it determines is 450ppm, what is the balanced alkalinity at that level, bearing in mind the test kits inaccuracy?
Matt
craighuckins
31-01-05, 09:01
Matt, that's exactly what I was getting at :thumbsup:
......And BTW those figures came from mr.Hipkiss's calculator! (still think the calcium one should be re-named kalkulator.. :lol: )
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