View Full Version : Balancing Calcium Levels
craighuckins
27-01-05, 11:45
Referring back to my old post 'raising calcium levels',thanks to coling, I now have all the info (I have ordered salifert alk & mag test kits, they are coming imminently. So, levels are:
Magnesium - 1120
Calcium - 320
Alk - 14.4 dkh. 5.14 mEq/l
So, using Mr.Hipkiss's calculator, alk of 14.4dkh should have calcium at 462.85ppm so i guess that isn't too bad, if I slowly raise mag. levels with epsom salts, should the calcium come into line with the alk? Or do I need to raise it with Kalk?
Originally posted by craighuckins@Jan 27 2005, 11:45
Magnesium - 1120
Calcium - 320
Alk - 14.4 dkh. 5.14 mEq/l
So, using Mr.Hipkiss's calculator, alk of 14.4dkh should have calcium at 462.85ppm so i guess that isn't too bad, if I slowly raise mag. levels with epsom salts, should the calcium come into line with the alk? Or do I need to raise it with Kalk?
Quote " isint too bad" Well its not great :unsure:
Fairly new to this myself , but your KH should be around 8 not over 14
and you would be looking for a minimum of say 400 - 420 calcium 320 is a bit too low.
I would try and raise the calcium up slowly .
Im sure you will get a more detailed way to lower KH :thumbsup:
Craig....
WOW you are well off whack.. I think this is to do with the araga powder you are using
The figures are a-typical of serious precipitation... you have precipiatedt calcium and magnesium out of your water.
Bring you Mg up first...... to 1250-1350.
DO NOT add any balanced additive.
Then bring up calcium slowly.... to 400...
Hoepfully by then your alk will have dropped sufficiently for you to be in balance... .tweak with bicarb of soda if needs be.
As I said before.. I would do a large water change to bring you towards normality.
Elliot
I have a friend with test results about the same as yours (calc 360, DKH 14.1, MG 1140)and he was useing epson salts to try and raise his MG 1st but with a DKH of 14.1 i belive it was just precipitating straight back out of solution as it will not go above 1140 so at the moment we're trying to raise the calcium level up using calcium cloride (or kent turbo calcium) to slowly bring this into balace 1st
never had this problem before so i'll be watching this and i'll let you know if getting the calc level up whilst doing 10% water changes to bring the alk down will help make it easyer to get the MG levels up.
mark t
Why would the Mg be precipitating out?????
Thanks
elliot
craighuckins
27-01-05, 15:08
Mark, how much epsom salts was he using? for my tank it's going to take over a kilo of epsom salts to bring things to 1350ppm...Was he using enough?
Why would the Mg be precipitating out?????
i thought due to the high dkh that it might be doing as for the same reason you dond mix kalk and mg together.
Mark, how much epsom salts was he using? for my tank it's going to take over a kilo of epsom salts to bring things to 1350ppm...Was he using enough?
i'm not sure as he's been trying for a while to raise his mg levels but not having much luck but then his tank must be around 300 gallons
mark t
Glenn@home
28-01-05, 09:57
Seems to me that since you Ca and alk are seriousley out of balance and the mag levels are low there are a couple of issues here.
First stop adding anything relating to Ca or Alk for the time being let the Alk drop naturally to a more normal level around 8DKH.
When the alk has dropped raise the mg levels using an apprpriate method, FWIW epson salts is acceptable for smalle changes as i understand it, otherwise use a mix of epsom salts and Mag Chloride (check with Andy hipkiss site for details to maske sure i got the right chemicals and for the proportions)
Once the mag is at a reasonalbe level c.1300 then consider rasing Ca to be in balance with the Alk.
FOrgot to ask the levels normally discussed are based on the presumption that you are running the tank at 35ppt. If your salinity is lower than this then the concentration of mg and Ca you would expect would be lower than this.
HTH
Glenn
little update:
useing kent tubo calcium and doing a 10% water change with kent salt on my friends 300gallon tank we have now over 3 days got the calcium up from 360 to 420 , the alk has gone down to 12.4DKH and the MG as gone up to 1320 with out adding any more so i can only guess that the MG that he had driped in before as now started to move back into solution so it shows on the test kit so we are going to just keep adding kent turbo calcium until we get a DKH and calcium in balance then go back to using kalk then hopefully the MG levels will stay above 1300
mark t
simon garratt
30-01-05, 08:18
Of course the important question is how he got to this position in the first place?. I would be looking at how he is dosing Kalk. Re amount and location of output, not to mention mixing method?
Regards
Si.
hi,
he mix's the kalk in a kent bucket with a maxijet pump on all the time with so much kalk to white vinagar not sure of the rate so its alway white as it drips out at around 1 drip per sec next to the reture to his sump so lots of water movement.
me myself, i don't add vinagar just a 220ltr water butt filled with ro water with builder lime in the bottom and a pump to mix it up for a hour then left to settle and only the clear water goes into my tank via a doesing pump.
he does have a pair of long spined sea herchins (speeling :blush: ) that might put some strain on the calcium levels but other than that we are at a blank.
mark t
Originally posted by mbeast@Jan 30 2005, 11:04
me myself, i don't add vinagar just a 220ltr water butt filled with ro water with builder lime in the bottom and a pump to mix it up for a hour then left to settle and only the clear water goes into my tank via a doesing pump.
mark t
:wave: Mark...
Is builders lime pure?
I would have thought it could contain many un-wanted nastiest we would prefer not to be in the water... ;)
Could you or have you done a full test of the effluent to determine if Nitrates & Phosphates are present?
And what the Ca, KH/Alk from this is too please?
Mark...
Your friends problems are due to adding powder with the kalk solution
e
Originally posted by elliot@Jan 30 2005, 13:49
Your friends problems are due to adding powder with the kalk solution
e
sorry but i'm not sure what you mean as its vinagar hes adding with the kalk not any other powder, may have missed read/ understood :blush: i'm half asleep
mark t
Originally posted by TRAMLINE+Jan 30 2005, 11:38--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TRAMLINE @ Jan 30 2005, 11:38)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-mbeast@Jan 30 2005, 11:04
me myself, i don't add vinagar just a 220ltr water butt filled with ro water with builder lime in the bottom and a pump to mix it up for a hour then left to settle and only the clear water goes into my tank via a doesing pump.
mark t
:wave: Mark...
Is builders lime pure?
I would have thought it could contain many un-wanted nastiest we would prefer not to be in the water... ;)
Could you or have you done a full test of the effluent to determine if Nitrates & Phosphates are present?
And what the Ca, KH/Alk from this is too please?
Mark...[/b][/quote]
i know its not 100% pure but i started adding it 2 years ago after reading a topic about it on here back then by ozreefer IIRC and i've never had any problems with it.
i'll test some in the afternoon and let you know the results but as for bad things buiding up i belive if any is there it gets dilluted when doing water changes to stop it getting to a level that i would be able to test or notice a problem caused by it.
mark t
craighuckins
31-01-05, 08:58
Originally posted by TRAMLINE@Jan 30 2005, 11:38
mark t
:wave: Mark...
Is builders lime pure?
Apparently blue circle calcium hydroxide is 95-97% pure (often lab re-agent grade isn't any better) but apparently kalk is self-purifying, precipitating out unwanted nasties whilst it stands. [/quote]
mark t[/QUOTE] Is builders lime pure?
>Apparently blue circle calcium hydroxide is 95-97% pure (often lab re-agent grade isn't any better) but apparently kalk is self-purifying, precipitating out unwanted nasties whilst it stands.
Hi Craig...
Thank for that...can’t be bad then… :) I no the part kalk has…and its extra advantages on phosphates...but not how the purity was...or how it effects other un-wanted nasties...though being a strong Alkaline...I'm sure it does act as a bug killer sterilizer...builder lime must be cheap & chips as a famous antique veteran often said…be interesting to see what the effluent reads…
Hi Mark t...
The test will be intresting...I look forward to the results later... :thumbsup:
Regards Mark
craighuckins
31-01-05, 10:52
I am going to order 500g Calcium chloride 6-water L.R. from www.beecroft-science.co.uk (they don't charge £12 for delivery like labpak do!) delivery is free! How do I use it? I am going to raise the mag first with epsom salts over four days by mixing required amount with 10 litres fresh RO then using it for top-off (this will riase 50ppm in a 24 hour period.) when this is done can I do the same with calcium chloride (but at slower rate, thought maybe 30ppm/24 hours?
Calcium chloride, epsom salts, builders lime....
Why not use the tried and tested stuff?
For example, a tub of Kent kalk has lasted me about a year, £10.
craighuckins
31-01-05, 11:15
Hi Colin M8, That's only any good to me when my levels are balanced as that will add more alkalinity into the equation...The epsom salt is just to buffer my magnesium. I think the levels are in such a state due to a precipitation incident I suffered a while ago with kalk :blush:
Craig
I didn't just mean kalk (or just you) but I meant using stuff in general to save a few quid.
Originally posted by coling@Jan 31 2005, 11:03
Calcium chloride, epsom salts, builders lime....
Why not use the tried and tested stuff?
For example, a tub of Kent kalk has lasted me about a year, £10.
What do you reckon kalk is ????.... way cheaper and often purer to go lab grade
e
craighuckins
31-01-05, 12:22
Having thought about things, I'm planning to deal with the problem by first raising the mg levels with epsom salt, then doing a large water change (30%) to remove some of the sulphates in the water, then hopefully as the mg will be up to a proper level, the calcium and alkalinity will fall a bit closer into equilibrium? Then tweek from there?
What do you reckon kalk is ????.... way cheaper and often purer to go lab grade
And builders lime?
builders lime is calcium hydroxide
e
Would you use it in your tank?
Yup I would consider it ...... the Aussies are mad about it.... even lab grade kalk has a % or two impurities....
The important thing here.. is if you dont know what you are doing... buy off the shelf...... otherwise you will not save yourself cash
E
Fair do's, I'll shut up then.
craighuckins
31-01-05, 13:54
Originally posted by elliot@Jan 31 2005, 12:55
Yup I would consider it ...... the Aussies are mad about it.... even lab grade kalk has a % or two impurities....
>>>Yeah but are they smoking or snorting it?
Yup I would consider it ...... the Aussies are mad about it.... even lab grade kalk has a % or two impurities....
>>>Yeah but are they smoking or snorting it Elliot? :D :D :D
If it gives me a beautiful reef?.... who cares!
e
Originally posted by elliot@Jan 31 2005, 14:45
If it gives me a beautiful reef?.... who cares!
e
does this mean i'm not the only one in the uk useing builders lime?
does the job for me.
test results =
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
calcium 720
photphates <0.1
DKH should be tested with 5ml and 1 drop + 1dkh but got the feeling i would need a few bottles so put 1ml of lime water and 4ml of RO water and had to put 20 drops in so i belive that would make it 100DKH but on andys site it shays it should be around 50DKH so not sure on how correct my test was for that.
HTH - mark t
Mike,
If the limewater you tested had even a tiny number of undissolved lime particles in it, that could explain the result. As you run the test, you use up alkalinity, so more lime will dissolve to replace it. That would be a false test of the initial water quality.
Thought I would pop this in....something someone pointed out to me once :blush: , and it's useful to remember. Getting the little bits out isn't easy, btw !!!
Hth,
kim
Originally posted by mbeast+Jan 31 2005, 17:23--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mbeast @ Jan 31 2005, 17:23)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-elliot@Jan 31 2005, 14:45
If it gives me a beautiful reef?.... who cares!
e
does this mean i'm not the only one in the uk useing builders lime?
does the job for me.
test results =
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
calcium 720
photphates <0.1
DKH should be tested with 5ml and 1 drop + 1dkh but got the feeling i would need a few bottles so put 1ml of lime water and 4ml of RO water and had to put 20 drops in so i belive that would make it 100DKH but on andys site it shays it should be around 50DKH so not sure on how correct my test was for that.
HTH - mark t[/b][/quote]
Mark...
To add to Kim’s statement above...on bits of lime getting in the solution...did you filter the effluent threw some coffee or other filter media first? And you are looking at around 30-40 meq or 100+dkh figures
Mark...
Hi,
the water was ran through some filter wool so was clear as far as i could see.
the DKH was 100 not sure what it is in meq.
not sure on ph as found out my ph probe only goes to 10 then says HI
mark t
Originally posted by mbeast@Feb 1 2005, 02:05
Hi,
the water was ran through some filter wool so was clear as far as i could see.
the DKH was 100 not sure what it is in meq.
not sure on ph as found out my ph probe only goes to 10 then says HI
mark t
Hi Mark...
Well a calculation of 10.2 dKH x 10 = 102 same as 3.66meq/L X 10 = 36.6
So it looks around 35-36 meq/L effluent...sound about right I think... :wacko: :D
That’s a nice polite pH probe then... :lol: Needs a pH test kit then to find that out...I'm sure it be high...
Mark...
Glenn@home
02-02-05, 15:38
I believ saturated kalk effluent shold be around 40meq/l so if your getting in this region your effluent is ok.
If your trying to remove fines from a sample to test using a double layer of paper coffee filter will be about the best you can do short of going and buying some purpose made filtration papers.
HTH
Glenn
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