New Tank

[millermilla]

Hiya Guys,

Im just starting to get all my gear together for my reef tank in which I will keep soft corals and fish. Im hooked on the eco system approach and this is how I plan to filter the tank with live rock, miracle mud and calurpa. Im very new to reef's but have kept marine fish before so any pointers along the way will help thanks.

I currently have or will have:

4X2X2 Seabray Tank and cabinet (drilled)
3ft Sump which has yet to be built
Giesemann 150 watt halides with blue actinic
Ehiem sump pump (1050)
300W Heater
Kent RO Unit
Test Kits etc.

Not to scale but this is my plan for the sump

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/1filter.jpg

Will I need a cirulation pump in the sump and is the main tank pump big enough for the job?
How much MM and live rock would be required for filtration purposes?
What sort of lighting will be required in the sump?

This is where the tank will be situated, beside the TV. The radiator will be blanked off and ive lived in this house for 2 years and at no part of the year does that corner get direct sunlight.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/room.jpg

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Deanobeano]

is that a daewoo plasma in the pic?

deano

[millermilla]

Its an LG Flatron probably the same screen as a Daewoo though.

[Deanobeano]

i have the daewoo lol

as for the tank looks good matey, sump 2 for the rquire amount of mm for a sump i think theres a link on the mm section on the stm web site that tells u what amount u need, as for the light i've heard different things some people use house light some t5. i'm staring a refugium on my main tank and i'm using t5 compact by interpet to help grow my cheato and caupluea.


deano

[clarky72]

big welcome to UR :wave: I think youll need maybe 10-20kg of live rock


:thumbsup: jord

[millermilla]

A little more progress. I got a second hand RO and set of test kits today so ive plumbed in the RO and tested the water before and after. Im currently running the RO to fill approx 20 gallons to be stored before the tank arrives

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/RO.jpg

15/08/05 15/08/05
Tap Water Salt mix

Calcium mg/l 120 500
Ammonia mg/l 0.00 1.00
Nitrate mg/l 25 12.5
Phosphate mg/l 0.25 0.1
PH 7.4 8.0
Magnesium ppm <30 1200
SG 1.027

Im a bit worried about the ammonia, none in the tap water but 1.0 mg/l after RO and salt. The salt im using is Kent sea salt. Never used an RO before and have no instructions, I have the pipes connected yellow to mains supply, orange to waste and blue to storage. I seem to be getting 10X more waste than I am good clean water. Does this sound right?

[bigray]

i would change your ro membranes before you start it will work out alot cheaper in the long run have you got a tds tester

[millermilla]

Thanks bigray. I tried looking for new membranes but could not find any and found the RO unit was too slow really. I was only getting about 5 gallons a day and being that it was second hand I really was unsure if it was working ok or not so a mate gave me a link to RO Man and I ordered a new 4 stage unit and TDS :D
I ordered it online and bought a few extras to make it up to £100 and free delivery. The quoted time for free delivery was 7 working days but how pleased I was that it arrived next day. The unit looks great with good instructions. Ive plumbed it in and it churns out RO at a very good rate. I invested in a TDS that does temperature aswell and am getting 310ppm from the tap water, 19PPM after the RO and 0PPM once it's gone through the DI. Very happy indeed :lol:
The plan was also to build my own sump but a quick chat in the LFS today and they are building one to my spec 36X15X12 for £60 which seemed cheaper and far less hassle that doing it myself. The current all in budget is now reaching £1000 and thats with alot of second hand stuff too.

I plane to run an eheim 1250 main return and a 1050 running a closed loop with a tunze stream 6060 inside the tank. Does this sound enough?

Heres a piccy of my new RO B)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/129-2985_IMG.jpg


Thanks for looking, should have some tank shots soon :D

[narthur]

Keith its all coming on nicely.. Keep us update on the tank.. I'm not sure if you've sorted out tank circulation but i'd be looking towards tunze equipment or perhpas a wave box but there a bit priccy for what they are. Glad the RO unit worked out and i guess its just time to get it filled and settled. I contacted DES- ONG for u the guru of ESM design and filtration so i'll forward the e-mails to you.
Regards and keep up the good work it all looks promising.. Nic :thumbsup:

[john27]

Hi,
I would use a larger pump for your return, a 1250 will be a trickle. I would use a Ehiem 1262.

[clownboy]

If you are planning on using the Ecosystem approach have you considered buying one of their sumps instead of getting one built?

The sump you have is basically the same design and you can get the three foot sump for about £65. Think you will struggle to get one built for significantly less than that.

Try Steve at Coral Garden or the following link - you would need the 3612 model.
http://www.thecoralgarden.co.uk/product_in...5e4f51cc813de6d (http://www.thecoralgarden.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=568&osCsid=fd849a46f9a1087465e4f51cc813de6d)

FYI I have a 4x2x2 tank and run the 3612 sump. It has been running for about 5 weeks and all is well so far :)

No nasty skimmer either :ph34r: :ph34r:

Good luck, John

[millermilla]

Time for an update!

Ive been very very busy over the bank holiday weekend and picked my tank up from a fellow reefer Saturday afternoon. To cut a long story short I had purchased a 4X2X2 Seabray tank from a fellow reefer along with an eheim pump, gueisman 2X150W Halides + Actinic and a cabinet. The cabinet required some repair due to water damage but the guy I bought it off was more than happy to pay for the materials required. I quickly asessed the water damage and made a list of materials to buy from my local B&Q. Not much of the cabinet could be salvaged but it made a very usefull template and a good few hours later and a bit of sweat and I had a cabinet that was probably stronger than new and will last the test of time.


A Veiw of the rot that had taken place

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/rot.jpg

As you can see I only used the top and rear section of the old cabinet. The rear section was also water damaged but as this would no longer be a load bearing part I decided to retain it as a template

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/Allthatwasleft.jpg

The reinforcement was 8 4X2 uprights and an upper and lower 4X2 frame which should be stronger than the original design and last the test of time

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/brace.jpg

Nearly finished. All of the bracing is complete and all that is left is a bit of beading to add to the top lip and tidy up the center brace with a bit of conti board.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/almstfinished.jpg

Cleaning the tank before placing on the stand. This tank is bigger than I thought. I had to put on my swimming trunks and quite literally get inside the tank to give it the once over! Ive spared you and put a picture of just the tank minus me in my speedo's

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/cleaningtank.jpg

Very nice set of Guiesman metal haildes but they do weigh a bit! Luckily my house is new ish and built to modern standards i.e very little artex on the ceiling so it was easy to work out where the ceiling joists were and mount the halides.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/Lights.jpg

Tank on the stand! Lifting the tank nearly killed my father in law but it was worth it LOL! You can see here ive been measuring up the closed loop system.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/tankinplace.jpg

Couldnt resists it! Im always seeing people and kids inside new tanks to show the size but I dont have a baby or child so the cat had to do!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/130-3010_IMG.jpg

After installing the closed loop system I thought I would check that it actually sprays out at enough pressure to have an effect and I think you can see my calculations were just fine.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/closedloop.jpg


There is more to come but I would just like to say thanks to Alex (Chew) for selling me his tank as I know he's already missing the setup!

[millermilla]

Once the tank was in place it was time to start planning the aquascape. Its the sort of job the wife would enjoy so I let her loose on the rocks while I concentrated on the electrics. Ive never given aquascaping much thought before. Ive usually just stacked rocks on top of each other and hoped they looked good and didnt fall but this thim the rocks were planned and once in the tank siliconed together to prevent any accidents. Its still a bit bare but the idea is to leave plenty of space for the live rock rather than crowd it to much.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/mrs.jpg

This is how it should look once in the tank. Well sort of anyway!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/rocks.jpg

The next job was to leak test and fill the tank which didnt take too long as I had 30 gals of stored RO and the RO is a 50 gallon a day unit.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/filling.jpg

The tank is now filled and salt mixed to an SG of 1.025 at a temp of 28 degrees. When I placed the tank on the stand I couldnt bare the thought of those horrible polystrine ceiling tiles but I couldnt find black neoprene anywhere so white poly it was. Once the tank was full I simply ran a bead of black silicone around the base to hide the white poly tiles ;)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/ready.jpg

Just cant wait to put something in it now and hopefully should be picking up around 20KG of live rock this weekend.

Any comments good or bad are welcomed. I need all the advise I can get. So far ive just read on here and tried to follow the good ideas people have already proven to work!

[bluem00n0]

Like the tank.

When's the cat going back in?

Are those rocks ocean rock or reef bones? Is the idea for the live rock to seed them?

I like the look of them anyway.

Nice one.

:thumbsup:

Scott

[BadBoy]

What did you use to finish the top of the tank?

[millermilla]

Its all ocean rock. The lfs guy told me it would be ideal and the live rock would seed well with it. I hope he was right?

[millermilla]

Another busy weekend! As the tank was mainly finished as regards to plumbing and electrics I decided to start looking out for live rock. I was a bit cautious about buying second hand as im new and could quite easily be buying anything but at £6 per kilo I at least had to buy some to see what it was like! First trip was to Brighton to buy 3 large peices totaling over 14KG which look great, had loads of life including a small blenny and a big crab! I then went to my first ever regional meeting and met up with some very nice and very clever fish keepers who were only to happy to pass on a bit of knowledge and the host was very kind and donated a nice peice of LR for the tank. On Sunday I made a trip up to Guildford to by another 10KG of live rock from a UR member and this live rock was absolutely superb and the guy was more than happy to let me hand pick the bits I wanted out of the tank :thumbsup: Many thanks!
My miracle mud turned up at the weekend so ive now added that to the sump and it recommend leaving it for 2 weeks before adding macro algae. I ordered 30lbs but could only fit about 25lbs in the sump. Ive also added some moon lights which I got from e-bay. Not sure if they are of any importance but they do make the tank look very good at night!

As you can see the live rock has plenty of stuff on it! There was one small bit with a single aptasia but I soon killed that with a big screwdriver!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/liverock.jpg

Side veiw up the tank. I could probably still do with another 10-20KG of LR

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/side.jpg

Front veiw of the tank. Its looking pretty good now!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/fron.jpg

A picture of my sump for Fay. Still need to add some mangroves and macro algae

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/sump.jpg

I done some water tests tonight, I know the temp is high but it was very very warm today and ive yet to setup any fans which I may have to do soon!
I have a very high Mg reading, does anyone know why?

Temp: 29.5
S.G: 1.0245
PH: 8.2
Nitrate: 10
Ammonia: 0
Phosphate: 0.1
Mg: 2500ppm
Calcium: 500
TDS: 716 (is it worth me measuring this in the salt water?)

Im concerned about the Mg so please advise me


Thanks

Keith

[millermilla]

Anyone know why the Mg reading is so high?

[craigg]

no, no point in tds'ing salted water.

Magnesium must by wrong surely.

Phosphate needs addressing to.

Other than that looks good, oh and to my knowledge (which could be wrong), but ocean rock isnt very porous therefore does not really seed like live rock.

People dont tend to use ocean rock unless for a base level maybe.

Craig

[instantsquid]

Originally posted by craigg@Sep 5 2005, 07:30
ocean rock isnt very porous therefore does not really seed like live rock. People dont tend to use ocean rock unless for a base level maybe.
Yeah, agree with Craig - in fact I've just spent the weekend pulling out the ocean rock I added when I first set the tank up. It wasn't contributing to the filtration and was taking up valuable space that could be better utilised by more water! I've now got the same amount of live rock in the tank, but more swimming space for the fishes.

It just depends what kind of "look" you're after - but don't imagine that ocean rock will ever become "live".

Ian :thumbsup:

[millermilla]

The magnesium tests were taken twice and an average of the two is stated. In all previous tests before filling the tank and adding LR and miracle mud the Mg level has been fine?

[millermilla]

It seems that by filling the tank with RO water rather than adding a salt mix along with all the new coral gravel the RO water has absorbed all of the calcium in the gravel giving a very high calcium reading. Im hoping that Calcium and Magnesium are in some way related so it would explain this problem however I could still do with someone confirming this. To lower the Calcium and Magnesium ive started doing 10 gallon water changes which I will continue daily until it drops down to an acceptable level. I suspect I will be changing 50 + Gallons so it was quite an expensive mistake!
The water temperature has been a real pain to sort out too. Even though my room temperature was a steady 25 degrees yesterday the tank tamperature kept rising up to 30 degress until to halides turned off then started to drop very slowly. I bought two small fans from B&Q today and wired them into the same timer plug as the halides so they switch on and off automatically with the halides and it's worked perfectly. The fans are also individually switched, high, low and off so I can adjust them acordingly in the winter :D With the fans on they stop the halides heating the water and infact actually make the water temperature drop.


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/fans.jpg

[millermilla]

Sorry couldnt resist posting a picture of Benny! He's a tiny ickle Blenny :wub: (about 2CM) that came in a piece of LR. I sort of feel sorry for him cos he's in that huge tank by himself and he's gonna have to get through the cycle and my mishaps. I would try to get him re-housed but there is very little chance of catching the little thing. For now he seems very happy exploring all the new LR.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/Benny.jpg

[FaysieUK]

Found you! Think I agree about the ocean rock, I got a little bit with a nice sized hole in it to hold an airstone, and it never did anything except gather a bit of a green tinge.

I am hoping to get some stuff to try to make some live rock though, which is completely artificial but will be seeded and become live rock in the end. Have recipes for this and some good pictures too, all contained in a pdf file that some very kind gentleman emailed to me, let me know if you want to have this.

I also spoke to a guy in Barnsley (damnation, I was there last week and could have collected it myself if I had only ruddywell remembered - sodding altzheimers!!) who has a bag of stuff which I think is called natcem, or something like that, its a natural cement which isn't harmful to fish, so I was hoping to get some of that, but they are only up north. Unfortunately my uncle was ill in hospital at the end of August and we dashed up there in an emergency visit and the bag of stuff went straight out of my head.

Anyway, I do think its a great alternative for several reasons.

1. made from oyster shell, so no pulling real rock from the ocean.
2. Shapes can be created to suit particular aquascaping needs - not need for a sledge hammer!
3. its got to be less expensive than the real thing.
4. I understand if you get the water right (using very, very little) then its more porous than some kinds of true live rock.

I definitely want to have a go this winter but would really like to get the stuff from the Northern chap to try.

Ive just checked, it was Phil Richardson of Barnsley and the product was called Natcem35 (35 minutes open time). He reckons a local (to him) solicitor used it in his koi pond with no detriment to his fish. Its the Natural Cement Distribution company that make it. Anyone planning a trip to Barnsley, do let me know :D

Tank is looking good, watch out for that blenny though, mine tries to bite me - talk about territorial, after all, i am the hand that feeds him :D

[millermilla]

Still waiting! It seems like forever but its only 2 weeks now since ive filled it up and the water test have stabilized and the Ca and Mg readings now seem to be normal but ive yet to have an ammonia or nitrite increase indicating the start of the cycle. Ive not seen the blenny for a few days now so I suspect he might have died :( and I did have a 1" black crab in there who also seems to have died underneath the egg crate. I was worried about his rotting corpse but I surpose it may help mature the filter so ive left him rather than rip apart the tank to get him out? All the mushrooms and sponges on the LR seem to have doubled in size and are doing very well. I also noticed a new bigger crab today probably 1.5" across the same as the last (just black) and he seemed to be picking bits off the LR after dark. I have had problems with lots of brown dusty algae but I have reduced the lighting to 13hrs actinic, 5hrs Halides and 2hrs moonlights and its not to much of a problem now. I will of course increase it over time.
I need to fill the miracle mud with caulerpa now is there a particular type I should use? and when should I start adding a clean up crew? I seem to have loads of large bristle worms i.e 50 or so and probably 15 of which are over 4 inches. They come out a night in force. I know bristle worm are good for a reef tank but can you have to many?
For now here is a piccy of my tank under actinic light.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/130-3082_IMG.jpg

[FaysieUK]

Hi, have just come back from Portsmouth and discussed live rock with a couple of Simons down there. The outcome was that the ocean rock will only become 'live' insofar as the surface is concerned. The rock is not porous enough to sustain the bacteria within the rock itself. They agreed that many people use it in combination with live rock in order to pad out the aquascaping at not much cost, but it won't add significantly to the filtration effect, just the decorative one. So hope that answers that question.

Maybe the blenny will show up again as mine sometimes disappears from view for long periods. Is he being fed?

BTW my Portsmouth trip was to get a few frags, I did email around, so hope I have your right email - and I have some lovely new polyp colours, including barbie pink - am in seventh heaven. I only got a tiny cube of it (5 polyps) because the rest is already on ebay. Thinking about going and bidding for it just as an excuse to get another trip to look at Simon's mega tank - u would love it!

[millermilla]

Hiya,

Just a quick update. I had a small cycle which consisted in a spike in ammonia for one day and a slight rise in nitrites which went in a couple of days. Its now just over three weeks since the tank was filled and LR added and all the water parameters seem good bar a slight amount of nitrate at 12.5 mg/l which has been the same since the tank was filled and a slowly lowering of the KH dkh which is now down to 6-7 from 9. How do I raise the KH dkh back the the recommended level of 8-12. Both magnesium and calcium have settled now at 1320ppm and 520mg/l respectively.
I currently have the fuge lighted 24/7 and have the main tank lit by actinics for about 13 hrs per day and 5-6hrs by the halides and the algae build up seems to be controlable for the time being.
The first inhabitants went in at the weekend. 4 Turbo's, 4 Sand snails( sorry ive forgotten the name of them but the spend 99% of the time burrowing through the gravel) and 2 tank bred percula clowns (Max and Paddy :D ) The clowns seem happy enough and are feeding but they rarely venture from the corner in which they were first introduced into the tank. I also have a black crab who is about 2 inches across that came on some LR but he's very shy and only comes out at night. Luck because the Mrs thinks he looks very scary and is worried he will eat the fish!
Ive also got a bit more life in the fuge now. I am growing grape caulerpa which seems to grow very fast, saw blade and leaf caulerpa along with 1 mangrove but I plan to get a few more in the future. Ive also got some chaeto coming. Is it a problem mixing the types as I just figured which ever one grew best will do?
Ohh ive also started to get nice pink coraline algae growing all over my ocean rock so it's starting to look more natural

Heres a few pics:

Max and Paddy!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/fish.jpg

The Eco Sump

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/millermilla/Sump2.jpg

Thanks for looking


Keith

[narthur]

Keith its all coming together nicely now.. You'll just have to be patient now and watch as the corraline starts to pick up and thing start to take off.
Have you decided what route your going to go with regards to fish and corals?

Tanks looking great just keep up the good work. If you ever need anything give me a shout.. Nic