Auto Top Off - Is It Worth It? Part 2

[muzzy]

Hi all
you may recall the post i made last month regarding the problems i had using an auto top up with with RO unit causing high TDS readings.
The thread can be found here (http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=47118&st=15)
To cut it short, i originally ran an auto top up float valve in the sump connected to the RO unit, this meant the RO unit was coming on a few times a day and topping up small ammounts of RO water - this in turn lead to high TDS readings for a couple of reasons
1. The RO unit wasnt being run long enough to bring TDS readings down
2. DI-Resin was being hammered as a result of high TDS in the first 5 minutes of RO production.
3. Membrane wasnt being flushed unless i did it manually.

If you dont run your RO for a few minutes before gathering the "good" water then you will probably get high TDS (total disolved solids) readings as the membrane may have some sediment in it. DI-Resin doesnt like high TDS readings, it will be used up very quickly unless TDS is low coming out of the membrane.

So, i have now re-jigged the plumbing on the RO Unit, putting in some t-pieces and taps and a new storage tank above my sump.

First pic shows the new plumbing.
http://www.amandaslingerie.co.uk/images/topup/ro4.jpg
A - Flush tap for flushing membrane - preferably before each production of RO Water for a few minutes. (this came with my RO-Unit)
B - Tap to stop initial RO water coming out of the membrane from going to the DI-Resin pod as first few mins of RO water has a high TDS reading, this will make the DI-Resin last a lot longer. I keep tap closed for first few minutes, the water then goes to the waste feed to the drain using a "T" and another tap "C" , i then open tap "B" to allow water to go to the di-pod and close tap "C".
D- Waste water after membrane goes to sink drain. Tap is fitted just before the sink, when not in use this is closed to stop dirty water from the sink getting into the RO unit and stops water exiting the RO unit keeping the membrane from drying out.
E - Pressure switch from RO-Man, when the water storage container for collecting RO is full, a float valve in the container closes and puts the RO Tubing under pressure, this pressure causes the switch to close and prevents anymore water being produced as it closes the waste feed "out" and the "good RO water" supply.
I only use this as a back up in case i forget to turn the water off afterwards to prevent a flood. Its not a good idea to leave the mains supply on after you have collected your water as ive heard the membranes dont like being put under constant pressure. The switch can also be connected to the Mains supply "red pipe" and the "ro supply - blue pipe" but i couldnt get it to work in this way, maybe my pressure is a bit low at 45 psi.
F - Feed out for good RO Water connected to float valve in collection tank above sump.
G - Mains in feed.

Full view of RO Unit.
http://www.amandaslingerie.co.uk/images/topup/ro3.jpg

RO Unit in place under sink
http://www.amandaslingerie.co.uk/images/topup/ro2.jpg

Storage tank above sump, connected to RO Unit
http://www.amandaslingerie.co.uk/images/topup/tank.jpg

Float valve in storage tank
http://www.amandaslingerie.co.uk/images/topup/float.jpg

Thanks to RO-Man for the initial help and the guys who heped in the original thread.
If anyone would like to comment on this and offer any advice/critisicm/questions etc feel free.

Muzzy :thanx:

[weegaz22]

how are you getting the water from the resivior to the sump?

[muzzy]

at the moment just using some tubing and syphon down every couple of days a few litres.
im waiting for my new kalkstirrer and peri pump to arrive and will then top off using this on a timer at night.

[waterfalls]

I am glad you started the previous topic.

A few Ts and and stop valve should now make my DI last lot longer.

I need to get an additional T and a stop valve so I can conveniently flush the membrane. At present I have to remove the restrictor and then flush membrane and then reinsert the restrictor.

Is it me or have not posted any picture as I cannot see them.

[muzzy]

its you, the pics are there above :rolleyes:

[curtisi]

It must be me as well cos I cant see any pics!

I also asked this question a couple of months back after getting a TDS meter and noticing how high the readisngs are for the first few minutes and thought it would be better to fill the reservoir periodically rather than on a continual fill via float valve
thread (http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=35238&hl=)

Ian

[max69vk]

The only criticism I might have regarding this (not being funny, more for your safety really). Picture 4..... do you have any way of shielding or protecting that 4 way plug socket? If any water manges to find its way out of the storage container you could be in for a shock (quite literally!) :o

[muzzy]

Originally posted by max69vk@Sep 12 2005, 17:47
The only criticism I might have regarding this (not being funny, more for your safety really). Picture 4..... do you have any way of shielding or protecting that 4 way plug socket? If any water manges to find its way out of the storage container you could be in for a shock (quite literally!) :o
yeah good point, i do have an RCD in place though

[muzzy]

Originally posted by curtisi@Sep 12 2005, 17:34
It must be me as well cos I cant see any pics!

I also asked this question a couple of months back after getting a TDS meter and noticing how high the readisngs are for the first few minutes and thought it would be better to fill the reservoir periodically rather than on a continual fill via float valve
thread (http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=35238&hl=)

Ian
anyone else not see the pics? they are def there on my pc, maybe server was down for a bit where i host the pics

[~Tony~]

I had no problems seeing the pictures --- at work and at home.

[~Tony~]

I notice that the server the pictures are posted on contain the word 'lingerie'. Maybe website viewing protection filters are stopping the access.

Tony

[muzzy]

Originally posted by ~Tony~@Sep 12 2005, 20:01
I notice that the server the pictures are posted on contain the word 'lingerie'. Maybe website viewing protection filters are stopping the access.

Tony
possibly if you are at work

[kitenski]

great pics, I've been thinking about doing something similiar! Did RO MAn supply the taps, or if not, where did you get them from?

>> Its not a good idea to leave the mains supply on after you have collected your >>water as ive heard the membranes dont like being put under constant pressure

I leave mine on all the time, does anyone know for sure about this? I thought you had to keep the membrane wet? I had hoped the pressure switch from RO Man would be sorting this out ;)

regards,

greg

[muzzy]

Originally posted by gregh@Sep 14 2005, 14:05
great pics, I've been thinking about doing something similiar! Did RO MAn supply the taps, or if not, where did you get them from?

>> Its not a good idea to leave the mains supply on after you have collected your >>water as ive heard the membranes dont like being put under constant pressure

I leave mine on all the time, does anyone know for sure about this? I thought you had to keep the membrane wet? I had hoped the pressure switch from RO Man would be sorting this out ;)

regards,

greg
yes, taps came from RO-Man
you can keep the filters and membrane wet by fitting a tap to the waste outlet, this keeps the water from escaping out, i also close the tap after the membrane in my configuration which keeps the membrane wet, i should probably have fitted one after the di pod as well but didnt order enough taps :blush:

[muzzy]

Originally posted by gregh@Sep 14 2005, 14:05
great pics, I've been thinking about doing something similiar! Did RO MAn supply the taps, or if not, where did you get them from?

>> Its not a good idea to leave the mains supply on after you have collected your >>water as ive heard the membranes dont like being put under constant pressure

I leave mine on all the time, does anyone know for sure about this? I thought you had to keep the membrane wet? I had hoped the pressure switch from RO Man would be sorting this out ;)

regards,

greg
... and the pressure switch is just to be used as a safety cut off in case you forget to turn the mains supply off after production.
If you leave the unit constantly "on" when the storage container level goes down the RO will continue to be produced, this will bring you back to the initial reason for this whole excercise as the di resin will be exhausted very quickly due to high initial tds reasons when the ro unit kicks in again

[kitenski]

Mine doesn't trickle, I normally switch the RO unit to "flush" after filling a bucket, then refill my container when the TDS reading drops. I have a permanent waste trickling into an outside drain.

But from what your saying in standard "flush" mode it's still going thru my DI?


regards,

greg

[muzzy]

yes taps from RO-Man, thought i already said that :D

some water will still get into the di-pod even when flushing i have noticed.

i fitted a tap to stop any water getting into the di pod while flushing, then turn flush off and continue to create waste only water for 5 mins until tds stops dropping any further, then open tap up to allow it to get to the di-pod.

[reefclown]

Muzzy,
maybe something to consider for the future, but putting a solenoid on the input,output and waste that is controlled via a dual float switch allows the whole process to be automated and takes out any potential user error. Of course when a solenoid fails, both floats jam, or you get a prolonged power cut it's another game ;) Also quite easy to biwire the solenoids and connect to a timer for scheduled system flushing.

Just another approach to the same problem for the automation minded.

[muzzy]

Originally posted by reefclown@Oct 25 2005, 00:47
Muzzy,
maybe something to consider for the future, but putting a solenoid on the input,output and waste that is controlled via a dual float switch allows the whole process to be automated and takes out any potential user error. Of course when a solenoid fails, both floats jam, or you get a prolonged power cut it's another game ;) Also quite easy to biwire the solenoids and connect to a timer for scheduled system flushing.

Just another approach to the same problem for the automation minded.
sorry mate you lost me there :wacko:
i only run the ro once a week now to fill my reservoir up. i do a manual flush first then switch to ro production but dump the first couple litres before going through the di-pod.
my resin is now lasting a lot longer and im getting zero tds readings after di.
i think adding anything else will just be overkill, waste of money and besides, i dont understand what you said! :D

never was any good with electrics/electronics