View Full Version : Reef Computer
Changing the subject a little, towards the end of October (at the moment developing another project) I hope to develop a reefing computer. Will be able to have a probe for temp, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, Ph, calcium, red-ox, mg, not sure about dkh. Level switch's for topup. 8 controllable plug sockets for lights top up pump, and switching things on and off with reference to the probes.. If parameters are out of set range will be able to email you or text direct to phone. Also if hooked to a laptop with battery back up it will be able to text you if the mains power goes off. Have all the plans the only trouble at the moment is time.
Approx cost £350 probes will be extra.
What do you guys think, is there a market for it?
Cheers
Sid
http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.p...673&hl=sid8ball (http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=47673&hl=sid8ball)
Following my post on the above link on the IKS thread posted by ~Tony~ as always I'm behind schedule with my current project but there is light at the end of the tunnel and would like to start on the reefing computer around Christmas time.
If anyone has any suggestions what they would like to see from a reefing computer would appreciate if they could post their comments. I Would like to be thinking about any other extras required before I get started.
cheers
Sid
When any sensor is triggered, the program allows any number of pre-defined events to be triggered.
For instance, if I have a water level sensor, I'd like for the software to allow me to be able to toggle on/off any number of plugbars AND include a safety timer, to avoid constant switching on/off. The reason for this is that I may not use it as part of a top-up system but for other pumps within the system.
To expand the water level sensor, introduce a kit like the Tunze where you have a dual sensor, where one is optical. The second sensor supporting the upper limit of the water level would cause an alert state that would allow you to shut off whatever you need to, for a period of time (minimum defined).
Alternatively, or as an addition, have a dual sensor water level thing, where both are set at the same point and the sensor pair both have to be on for the system to accept that the relevant state has been reached.
Additional events could be (as previously mentioned) texting, or voice mail or even an email.
A web interface with real time status reporting (graphs, current readouts, a log of alerts and other triggered events).
TheThingIs
22-11-05, 11:03
a few things spring to mind:
The ability to program the computer yourself. All the info available in constant variables and then a simple language to program it in. So if a variable called %TEMP% gives you the current temp then you could simply write in this:
If %TEMP% > "26C" Then ACTIVATE %SOCKET1% Until %TEMP% <= "26C"
(you could also add in your own variables and make them equal to built in ones to make reading easier ie Cooler = %SOCKET1% )
or
If %TEMP% > "26C" Then ACTIVATE fans And DEACTIVATE metalhalide Until %TEMP% <= "26C" And HASBEENDEACTIVATED > "00:30:00"
The ability is there then too for everyone to share the program they have written but obviously the unit would need a base program that would do most things ppl would want. Get a good base program in plus the ability to reprogram it exactly the way you want and you would have one hell of a system!
Wireless pc interface
External display or a simple neat looking display that can be mounted on the front of your tank and maybe simply plug in a pc keyboard.
Expandability. Would be nice to have no limits to the amount of things you can plug in, either probes or controllable sockets....my IKS limits me to 16 and right now i could do with 1 more :D So rather than plug them all into the main box, maybe daisy chain everything so that would remove the limits. Probes you could have a 4 port connecter that allows you then to add on another 4 port connecter and so on, or that could even work too for the plug sockets.
UPS connection so that the unit can talk to a UPS like a pc does
Ability to use a battery to start a generator....but things like this would be so easy to do with a programming language.
HTH :D :thumbsup:
Lee
multiple probes for temp, pH so you check it throughout areas of your system
temp can vary hugely from the main tank to the sump !!
and pH is handy to have to do both reactors and the main water body !!
makeing the switching wireless like x10 {neptune style} would be very good for us with big tanks :thumbsup:
Some good ideas raised keep them coming. :thumbsup:
Ill just quickly explain how it will work programing wise.
The user will create a set of rules in a hierarchy of importance in an extremely user friendly way. all rules are read and then checked. This way if two rules contradict each other it will rely on the highest rule in the list to prevent things being switched on and off constantly with contradicting rules. There will be a small screen to stick on the tank which can be programed to show what ever you require. All programs will be able to be saved as diffrent setups and shared with other users if required.
cheers,
Sid
All those different probes that you promised :thumbsup:
Ethernet connection. Webpage for viewing, setup, graphs etc. Alarm messages to email and text msg. This could be an extra optional box, if necessary.
Logging to internal memory; easy download to pc; fully text based for log and programming data; simple programming language for advanced setup with multiple sensor/socket logic statements. UPS aware.
Expandable - daisy-chain socket units. Each socket units contain additional probe connectors etc. Socket units can be a distant apart (no need for x10 then ?). support for multiple probes.
just a few thoughts for now, several already voiced above
Tony
TheThingIs
22-11-05, 12:22
12v Transformers that you could alter the voltage on therefore allowing you to control the speed of a peri pump and the brightness of moonlight led's. Rather than 240v variable power which is a bit useless now that we have streams.
Ability to control streams without having to use the multicontroller?
Lee
Originally posted by ~Tony~@Nov 22 2005, 13:41
All those different probes that you promised :thumbsup:
Ethernet connection. Webpage for viewing, setup, graphs etc. Alarm messages to email and text msg. This could be an extra optional box, if necessary.
Logging to internal memory; easy download to pc; fully text based for log and programming data; simple programming language for advanced setup with multiple sensor/socket logic statements. UPS aware.
Expandable - daisy-chain socket units. Each socket units contain additional probe connectors etc. Socket units can be a distant apart (no need for x10 then ?). support for multiple probes.
just a few thoughts for now, several already voiced above
Tony
nice idea, my thought was that using x10's is a good way to keep the unit cost down and its then a case of buying as many as you need :thumbsup:
but this daisy chaining is that a cable run to the next multi bar ?
as i have seperate sockets above and below the main tank, and some have them in different rooms which is why i like the x10's to give me such flexability :thumbsup:
Originally posted by jimmyjayz@Nov 22 2005, 12:25
but this daisy chaining is that a cable run to the next multi bar ?
Yes, that is what I was suggesting. Each socket multi bar would have its own built-in self-powered controller, so wouild just need a control-data cable (USB bus?)
The control & display & programming head is then just another plugin device.
why not just go down one of the iks/aquatronica routes? those probes you mention would be nice to have but I know for a fact that Ion specific probes like that cost about £350 each!
Originally posted by jimmyjayz@Nov 22 2005, 12:25
nice idea, my thought was that using x10's is a good way to keep the unit cost down and its then a case of buying as many as you need :thumbsup:
but this daisy chaining is that a cable run to the next multi bar ?
as i have seperate sockets above and below the main tank, and some have them in different rooms which is why i like the x10's to give me such flexability :thumbsup:
Hi,
I have the Aquatronica which does allow me to have multiple plug bars up to 3m apart using a USB cable. I run one inside the cabinet and one outside.
Features I would like to see on a new computer are:
Calcium probe
Ability to have programs that only run on input from two or more sensors.
Ability to force minimum or maximum run times for a program. When trying to maintain temp to a very narrow band on the aquatronica you get things swithing on and off every few seconds if you are not careful.
Advanced programming (IF THEN etc)
Real time computer connection.
Graham
okay cool, i get it similar to the new aquatronica
i would prefer to have something similar to x10's as this gives you more flexiability, for example my chiller is situated outside and i have an x10 to switch it on and off, you can also double plug them as to get more control, so you can have one function doing one thing and another doing somehting else but unless both factors agree it wont work
i know kevin douglass has this on a couple of plugs, i think its with reference his kalk stirrer but am unsure :thumbsup:
i would use it as if to say, dosing ozone, i only want to dose it for 3 hours a day but when my redox is low, so i set one x10 to be timmed for 3 hours between 10 and 1 and then one to switch on if the redox is to low, i find it very flexable :thumbsup:
Originally posted by jimmyjayz@Nov 22 2005, 12:58
i would prefer to have something similar to x10's as this gives you more flexiability, for example my chiller is situated outside and i have an x10 to switch it on and off, you can also double plug them as to get more control, so you can have one function doing one thing and another doing somehting else but unless both factors agree it wont work
i know kevin douglass has this on a couple of plugs, i think its with reference his kalk stirrer but am unsure :thumbsup:
i would use it as if to say, dosing ozone, i only want to dose it for 3 hours a day but when my redox is low, so i set one x10 to be timmed for 3 hours between 10 and 1 and then one to switch on if the redox is to low, i find it very flexable :thumbsup:
Hi,
You can have both,
you can purchase an X10 device that activates another one when two contacts are joined together. You wire the two contacts on a relay plugged into the computer bar. When the bar socket is turned on the contacts are closed and a message is sent to turn on the X10 device. When the socket turns on and the contacts open the X10 device is sent an off command.
Or we could have a computer that does both the X10 and daisy chain plug bars :D which would be really cool.
Graham
Or we could have a computer that does both the X10 and daisy chain plug barsÂ* which would be really cool
I am now thinking that way. one would have controllable plug sockets and input probe sockets, the other with just probe sockets but can control x10's.
edit: Sorry both versions with switch inputs for top up as well
Thats no real problem.
Daisy chaining may be possible upto 3 times I think
cheers
Sid
hose probes you mention would be nice to have but I know for a fact that Ion specific probes like that cost about £350 each!
In discussions with suppliers and hopefully probes will be a lot lot cheaper than that.
TheThingIs
22-11-05, 13:24
I realise that quite a few of you use x10's and found them good. I use them for controlling my house lighting and tbh have found that they sometimes do not work 100%. It could be due to interference on the line of which I beleive there's a filter to help with that but I've not tried it. Personally I wouldn't trust certain things to be on x10 although for others it would be fine. As you've said, having the option of using both would be a major plus.
Lee
ion specific probes will not work in an ongoing setup they can be used for checking samle water but not left in situe they will contaminate with even a single bacteria and give false readings i looked into this :thumbsup:
Currently in discussions with probe manufacturer about these types of issues and there is a way around it. but carnt give away trade secrets yet :D
Sid8ball,
How much do you see the Calcium probes being? My main drag at the moment with my new tank is sitting there with the test kit dripping in the reagent until the colour changes. A real time read out would make tuning the calcium reactor so much easier.
Calcium too low, turn on the gas, get to the right level, turn off the gas.
Graham
Ill get a rough idea on calcium prope price either Tomorrow or Thursday if thats OK.
cheers,
Sid
Originally posted by ScubaMan@Nov 22 2005, 12:57
Hi,
I have the Aquatronica which does allow me to have multiple plug bars up to 3m apart using a USB cable. I run one inside the cabinet and one outside.
Features I would like to see on a new computer are:
Calcium probe
Ability to have programs that only run on input from two or more sensors.
Ability to force minimum or maximum run times for a program. When trying to maintain temp to a very narrow band on the aquatronica you get things swithing on and off every few seconds if you are not careful.
Advanced programming (IF THEN etc)
Real time computer connection.
Graham
Just FYI....
The calcium probe is due very shortly from Aquatronica, I also asked them about wait states to stop things being turned on/off rapidly & they said it was already being built into the next software release
Cheers Shelton.
So basically, everything the IKS, Neptune, and Aquatronica do + some more.
Better than the competition and/or cheaper. :D
Foremost - reliable. Fail safe code. Redundancy. Multiple probes. etc
I've never thought x10 resilient enough, but I now see they could have uses. Don't need the stacked x10 method if the program language handles it (Neptune like). I see that Neptune now have a 'direct connect' plug-bar option.
I really like the Aquatronica concept - but I'm sure you could make it even better. :thumbsup:
What's your timescale? I'm still concerned over the reliability of the IKS.
Tony
Hope fully prototype early Feb.
Made a mistake with daisy chain as well. can be daisy chained 60 times.
cheers,
Sid
Originally posted by Shultz@Nov 22 2005, 14:31
Just FYI....
The calcium probe is due very shortly from Aquatronica, I also asked them about wait states to stop things being turned on/off rapidly & they said it was already being built into the next software release
Cheers Shelton.
Hi,
Can you define 'shortly'? This year, spring '06?
An when is the next software release?
:thanx:
Graham
What microprocessor are you planning on using? Is the firmware going to be open source?
FWIW - I setup the 'reefputer' (crap name, I know) project on Sourceforge a while back. As is always the way with these things, never got around to doing much with it. Do still have some scribblings on A4 outlining the functionality of what I wanted to accomplish though.
If you are planning an open source project I'd be interested in helping out (particularly if you're using Atmel AVRs and C ;)
Chris
I have to be a bit cagey at this stage about the development and language as I have been stung big time before but there will be 2 versions of software. One version will be a lite version that will be completely open source probably include all the x10 functions as well. You will get both versions when u purchase.
Will probably release lite version before product release to give people an idea of the functions available.
Cheers,
Sid
P.S. Would also Like to thank everyone for the input and support so far. :thanx:
Chris Simmers
23-11-05, 00:17
For people that don’t have a lot of room around their tanks, have all the sensors plug into a wireless/RJ45 hub so they can communicate with the computer stored in a cupboard, study this also keeps the main computer away from any water.
Sorry for the delay, at this stage i have to say Calcium and nitrate probes are £249. But dont gasp yet, I hope to get these prices greatly reduced.
Cheers,
Sid
Originally posted by sid8ball@Dec 7 2005, 18:36
Sorry for the delay, at this stage i have to say Calcium and nitrate probes are £249. But dont gasp yet, I hope to get these prices greatly reduced.
Cheers,
Sid
When you get set up, I would be very interested in selling/ distribution rights if that is the way you want to go. Obviously promotion etc also. Mike
Close enough in Birmingham :thumbsup:, and still have all my old contacts in the USA
Found Nemo, what now?
07-12-05, 20:00
All the ideas mentioned above I agree with, could it handle more than 1 tank?
And can it put the kettle on? :lol:
Bit worried about the text message if readings low, I get stressed at work as it is without a message at 10am saying my lights have fused and I can't get away from work!
This sounds great, I was looking into a sight that said they had the FULL Aquamedic computer-in-a-case (including basic probes) for £900 and can get them with only 10 days leadtime...
But this sounds amazing!
If you want volunteers for testing - (hand in air schoolboy style)
:thumbsup:
(Please tell me this won't involve anything Windows-based or Microsoft in general?) :ph34r:
How about a light meter, that could be placed in the tank? It could tell you what the PAR was wherever the probe was situated, could give you an indication of when your bulbs were degrading, and could also let you know if your water is clouding up...
Does this already exist?
Do I now look really stupid? :unsure:
Cheers
Rich
I will look into measuring light, the only problem i can see is calibrating the sensor.
I will do a bit of research and find out.
thanks
Sid
Hi,
Would it be possible to do a UPS interface that was compatible with the signaling standards of the main makes of UPS (i.e. APC)?
You could then have a program that waited for 5 minutes to see if the power was going to come back on and if it didn't then shutdown all non essential equipment to make the UPS last longer.
Could also link up to some form of SMS interface to warn if the power had gone off.
Graham
In reply to rich
The quick answer is yes it can be done, but it’s a bit of a minefield and I may need some one to provide me a crash course in lighting and light waves. Also the cost, it may be an expensive add-on that people may not require if they follow a good maintenance routine.
I will do some more research
Thanks
Sid
Adding Light Sensor approximately in the £150 range. But would be an awkward thing to mount constantly. Sensor and lights must be level with each other.
cheers,
Sid
Edit to clarify. If they are not at the same angle there will be error in the reading. For example if the sensor is at 45° this will give a massive incorrect reading.
What do you think about the option of a web cam socket? As well a viewing all your parameters and making changes remotely if required you could also view the tank remotely. Great if your on holiday
Found Nemo, what now?
06-01-06, 14:00
Originally posted by sid8ball@Jan 6 2006, 13:58
Great if your on holiday
Sounds familiar!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
almost but just coincidence :) just done a fair bit of work on the project today getting all the parts ordered and am gonna add a usb socket for a web cam me thinks.
Found Nemo, what now?
06-01-06, 14:08
Originally posted by sid8ball@Jan 6 2006, 14:06
almost but just coincidence :) just done a fair bit of work on the project today getting all the parts ordered and am gonna add a usb socket for a web cam me thinks.
Do you have an ETA yet?
or is it still "soon"
:D
unfortunatly i can only say soon at the mo because im flitting between 2 projects. But it will be worth the wait :thumbsup: Bit worried if there will still be a market left thou looks like aquatronica are cleaning up.
cheers
Sid
Hi,
If you can add the advanced programming options and address the 'single computer, multiple tanks' partitioning I think you would still have a market.
Graham
Just out of curiosity, does any one know on the aquatronica if you can control auto topup measuring sg or ppm or only via float switches?
Originally posted by sid8ball@Jan 6 2006, 14:17
Just out of curiosity, does any one know on the aquatronica if you can control auto topup measuring sg or ppm or only via float switches?
Can't answer you Q re Aquatronica, but it looks like your device could well be better. I will watch this space and may well become a customer of yours in the future... Calcium probe Mmm! Just what I would love (a reliable one!) :lol:
Tony B
I am thinking of an aquatronica at the end of the month but yours sounds way better :)
Do you have an update on the ETA?
aquatronica can control any plug via any sensor - so yo can have it top up with RO based on a level switch or/and SW based on a SG sensor.
JasandJules
06-01-06, 17:56
I was also told that Aquatronica can deal with multiple tanks as well, i.e. one temp probe in each tank, with each tanks fans coming on when that tank hits 27 degrees for example....
Originally posted by JasandJules@Jan 6 2006, 17:56
I was also told that Aquatronica can deal with multiple tanks as well, i.e. one temp probe in each tank, with each tanks fans coming on when that tank hits 27 degrees for example....
yes- i have seperate probes and heaters in my display tank and sump- both are monitored and control independant of each other (although i could also run them as a single unit if i wanted)
Unfortunately I have been trying to complete another project at the same time so this has dragged a bit. But all is not lost, I'm nearly there and plan to post some images of the software and the full spec in the next 2 -3 weeks to give you guys an idea of whats coming.
cheers
Sid
Not initially but it will be ported to linux and mac.
cheers,
Sid
Link to preview of system thread.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=185364
cheers
Sid
Could you consider porting the software and control to a handheld computer running windows interface?
Reason being, I'm concerned about the extra costs of running a PC 24/7. Plus, the small handheld screen would look great recessed into the cabinet door, with the software controlled by touch screen.
Fingers crossed. Tim.
PS. End of November has a big red cross on it in my calender - have already instructed missus/kids etc that I expect one under the christmas tree.
how about the probes lasting more then a year and not haveing to keep being calibrated every 5 minutes.
Could you consider porting the software and control to a handheld computer running windows interface?
Reason being, I'm concerned about the extra costs of running a PC 24/7. Plus, the small handheld screen would look great recessed into the cabinet door, with the software controlled by touch screen.
Fingers crossed. Tim.
PS. End of November has a big red cross on it in my calender - have already instructed missus/kids etc that I expect one under the christmas tree.
Yep,this is definately something in the pipeline as thats how i would like to use the system.
how about the probes lasting more then a year and not haveing to keep being calibrated every 5 minutes.
Unfortunately this is the nature of measuring probes and we are stuck with it until some big wig scientist can find a better way.
thanks
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