Moonlight

[TheThingIs]

Couldn't find much searching so thought I'd ask.

Why have moonlight?

This question has been prompted by a recent post from SiG which brings me to question the use of moonlight. Do we really need it, is it beneficial or a potential problem? Fish require dark to settle properly, corals and inverts too. Life changes from day to night and without dark then those nighttime critters that appear won't be happy. Using moonlight has the potential of causing mass spawning which could wipe out everything in your tank. I've always heard that it's never totally black on a reef so moonlight is required especially with a nem so the fish won't accidentally fall foul to one. Is it really tho? On my last tank (10yrs ago) I never had moonlight and I also had carpet and malu nems, never lost a single fish and everything was very healthy. I've popped moonlight on my current tank, 9 x blue led's, and it does indeed look stunning at night, but is it right?

Plus, without covering the tank, there is also alot of light going off and on from your room lights if the tank is in a fairly busy location, like a living room. What about this causing issues?

If moonlight is needed, then what is the recommendation for the amount of light required? Too little and there's no point, too much and you would be causing stress?

Cheers,

Lee

[pbmdazza]

exactly my thoughts there. alot of peps get moonlight confused with antinics. as far as i can see moonlights are away of lighting the tank so you can watch it at night with out disturbing the inhabitants and in some cases it does help in spawning,
but as you said im sur the lights disturb the inhabitants and prevent them for settlling and if i was to view a tank at night surely red light conditions would be more relaxing for the fish hence why the importers use them to unpack them?

[sid8ball]

I was going to ask the question about red light. Many people use a red filter on a torch to see tank inhabitants at night with out disturbing them, I'm led to believe tank inhabitants carnt see red light. My question is this has any one tried to add a red filter to their halides at night? Is it possible.

As a bonus if your neighbors think your growing weed during the day they will think your running a brothel at night :D Hey maybe my Mrs can earn some extra money to fund more corals :evil: All for the good of the cause. oh I'm defo going to hell now.

cheers,

Sid

[muzzy]

Originally posted by sid8ball@Nov 25 2005, 10:45
As a bonus if your neighbors think your growing weed during the day they will think your running a brothel at night :D

LOL
:lol:

i use moonlight blue LED's from thelebos.com, i think they are great as it helps see the tank when all lights are off, they also came with a small electronics box which auto dim the leds over a 29.53 day moon cycle!
i love gadgets :D

as for mass spawning, havent seen that yet, but ive only been running them for a few weeks

[TheThingIs]

No more thoughts on this?

Lee

[Sean the Prawn]

I've ordered a moonlight off ebay. I'll be using it to gradually lower the light down to nothing at night rather than have it on all night. I think they are too bright to leave on, if you sit and watch the tank with all other lights off they are very bright when your eyes adjust, it must stress the fish.

Sean

[kneival]

My yellow tang gets really upset if the tank room lights are left on. The clows dont seem to care.

Must admit I was looking into using a 12v cold cathode from a PC for my moonlights. Might install one later this week and see how it goes.

How do you use the moolights? Are they on all the time or do they switch on when the main lights go out?

[rockster2599]

Originally posted by TheThingIs@Nov 28 2005, 10:46
No more thoughts on this?

Yes, it sounds like a simple case of fantasic marketing to me.
Rockster

[muzzy]

Originally posted by Sean the Prawn@Nov 28 2005, 10:53
I've ordered a moonlight off ebay. I'll be using it to gradually lower the light down to nothing at night rather than have it on all night. I think they are too bright to leave on, if you sit and watch the tank with all other lights off they are very bright when your eyes adjust, it must stress the fish.

Sean
err on a natural full moon lit night sky does this stress the fish as well then?

[muzzy]

Originally posted by kneival@Nov 28 2005, 11:16
How do you use the moolights? Are they on all the time or do they switch on when the main lights go out?
you can put them on a timer to come on after the halides/T5's go out, but i leave mine on 24/7

[Sean the Prawn]

Originally posted by muzzy+Nov 28 2005, 11:49--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (muzzy @ Nov 28 2005, 11:49)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Sean the Prawn@Nov 28 2005, 10:53
I've ordered a moonlight off ebay. I'll be using it to gradually lower the light down to nothing at night rather than have it on all night. I think they are too bright to leave on, if you sit and watch the tank with all other lights off they are very bright when your eyes adjust, it must stress the fish.

Sean
err on a natural full moon lit night sky does this stress the fish as well then? [/b][/quote]
Don't know mate, my fish are in a 2 foot deep tank. I could be wrong but I think the ocean is a little deeper. I've also noticed something strange about the moon, it seems to only be very bright for a few nights a month. Weird that.... <_<



What i was saying was that i think the effect most moonlights have on a tank is brighter than the effect the moon has on the ocean, and therefore could stress the fish as 24hr lighting is unnatural.



Sean

edit:grammar

[rockster2599]

Originally posted by Sean the Prawn@Nov 28 2005, 12:09
What i was saying was that i think the effect most moonlights have on a tank is brighter than the effect the moon has on the ocean, and therefore could stress the fish as 24hr lighting is unnatural.

Totally agree.
The problem with moonlights is that people think they somehow simulate the moon wheras I dont feel they do anything of the sort.
I personally dont want bits of unnecessary electrical equipment on my tank and feel adding nightlighting has the potential to cause more problems than it solves. Just my opinion though :thumbsup:
Rockster

[rockster2599]

Oh and having a tank in a busy room can cause issues with easily stressed species.
Some of my fish are certainly woken when I leave for work, disrupting their sleep pattern.
Rockster

[muzzy]

Originally posted by Sean the Prawn@Nov 28 2005, 12:09
I've also noticed something strange about the moon, it seems to only be very bright for a few nights a month. Weird that.... <_<


yes, thats why i use the moonlights from www.thelebos.com, it comes with a circuit board in a box that is based on NASA readings of the moon cycle, it auto dims after a full moon very gradually until it goes out alltogether, then it gets brighter gradually again until a full moon again, this takes 29 days
take a look at their web site :thumbsup:

[hairyduck]

Muzzy, do they do one with a UK power supply? or did you just buy the US one and replace it?

Kev

[muzzy]

no they dont supply a uk power supply, i had to get one off ebay for about 6 quid
here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-x-AC-DC-Mains-Adaptor-Variable-Voltage-Power-Supply_W0QQitemZ6825021155QQcategoryZ64471QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[hairyduck]

cool, thanks!

[TheThingIs]

hmmm, could do with some "expert" comments *cough* SiG *cough* :D

Lee

[Sean the Prawn]

I've looked at the website before but I still wouldn't have it on all night. I just think moonlights are too bright to leave on, although, granted I have not seen the nasa one in operation.

Sean

[mysticwave_2]

Tunze do a moon light / combined light sensor as part of the TS24 kit. The moonlight works on a natural cycle of new to full moon.

Seems to work quite well. Fish seem happy
:)

Jim

[TRAMLINE]

Originally posted by TheThingIs@Nov 28 2005, 14:53
hmmm, could do with some "expert" comments *cough* SiG *cough* :D

Lee
Really being technical here :lol: and not a expert :o Well I would have thought it’s because, there is a real one in the real world, not always visible mind, and its one of the more simplest things to mimic we can do...I read it helps in the breading because its more natural, to have a dimmed moon effect light at nights, I can be convinced of that :D

Mark :)

[Tiggsy]

cant see it myself......in the ocean the moon is effected by things you have no control over in a tank...cloud, depth in the water the fish chooses to swim, amount of night time hiding space, etc, etc.

its quite possible a fish sleeping under a large overhang will never the see the moon.

just seems a liitle gimicky for me......nice if you like it but i expect if the fish can cope with living it a tiny glass box then a "moon" is the least of their issues.

[rockster2599]

Originally posted by Tiggsy@Nov 28 2005, 17:48
cant see it myself......in the ocean the moon is effected by things you have no control over in a tank...cloud, depth in the water the fish chooses to swim, amount of night time hiding space, etc, etc.

its quite possible a fish sleeping under a large overhang will never the see the moon.

just seems a liitle gimicky for me......nice if you like it but i expect if the fish can cope with living it a tiny glass box then a "moon" is the least of their issues.
I have to aggree.
I also think some of the benefits proposed to be gained from simulating a lunar cycle may be nothing to do with light. They could also be effects of the tidal influence of the lunar cycle.
Rockster

[TheThingIs]

A little dissappointed, I thought this would be a more enlightening thread. Thanks to all those that have contributed but the answer hasn't really been given. I'm switching mine off for now, atleast until I can find a good reason why they should be on.

:thanx:

Lee

[TRAMLINE]

Originally posted by TheThingIs@Nov 29 2005, 17:00
A little dissappointed, I thought this would be a more enlightening thread. Thanks to all those that have contributed but the answer hasn't really been given. I'm switching mine off for now, atleast until I can find a good reason why they should be on.

:thanx:

Lee
Hi Lee...

I’m not sure what you really what to hear for as a answer, I thought its been answer to best of our thinking knowledge, all I can really add, to what I’ve said, is a repeat really.

I believe the artificial light acts partly of what our own moon does on the reefs, in the real world, as you well know, the moon itself light intensity is different depending on the day of the month, and this also reflects differently in the time the moon is shinning due to its distance and curvature to earth, and cloud cover, the only difference the real one has over a artificial light, is gravity, tidal change and seasons of course.

What can be said, as I pointed out earlier, it’s real and its there, and it’s shining all the time, and to mimic this partly with a small light at night on our home reefs, may have some benefits in some way, cannot be doing any harm anyway.

I’m not sure why, I don’t really understand and if the truth be told, the best of the great scientist don’t either, but all life form, be it animal, Plant’s, sea creatures including the corals, grow and breed, spawn on particular days of the year, sun ova sly influences this, some only do this on a full lit moon night.

So my thinking on the matter, we all know life wouldn’t exists without our sun, I’m pretty sure life would be different if our moon and it light, gravity effluences on earth was not present either, its a personal preference anyway, so know one needs too have one, it's running cost is minimal as a excuse not too, I'm sure, even if we don’t quite understand the science behind it, I do still believe it has a similar effect as our real moons light, and if not, then IMO it looks normal and nice, allowing a nice peak-in the tank now and then :D



Mark... :)

[raym]

Hi guys.....I have to say that I was intrigued at the solution offered Muzzy regarding lunar lights offered for sale at www.thelebos.com
so much so that I ordered one of their 2 light units. It arrived today, 3 days after posting. There was no charge for vat, customs etc. Plugged it in with a uk power supply and away it went.....I cant wait to see the effect of it dimming throught the lunar cycle. Lets see ahat happens...... :wave:

[hairyduck]

Fossa and Nilsen do a chapter on the effect of moonlight in one of their books and they say it is a major factor in the breeding success of corals sometimes being the only trigger for spawning, it does however have to follow the moons natural cycle, hence why I just bought the lebos one too, though I did get stung for £10 in customs charges :(

[Jonesii]

What Tramline was saying about animal species using the moon for breeding purposes is correct; Corals in particular use the lunar cycle in conjuction with particular tides (usually the smallest and calmest) in order to synchronise their mass spawning. It's essential that corals of the same species all spawn at the same time (within a day or two if not simultaneously) in order to fertilise each others eggs. Without being synchronised spawning corals would spawn at different times of the year and it might never coincide with the spawning of other corals of the same species resulting in possible extinction in time. Mass spawing is also beneficial from the point of view of reducing predation from fish and other planktivores as there's so much of it released at the same time, they predators can't possibly get it all.

The lunar cycle is probably one of the most stable natural indicators of time , it's not dependent of weather (even on cloudy nights, it's brighter with a full moon that with none and in the tropics you get a whole load more clear nights than cloudy) and it's predicatable year in, year out and that's what I believe is the reason so many things use it as an indicator for synchronicity.

As for moonlight in a tank, unless IMO you use specific timers/computer equipment to simulate the lunar cycle and it's varying intensities then you're wasting your time. One thing to consider also, do you really want a spawning even in your tank? Personally I don't, it's likely to be one of the fastest ways of wiping your tank out through an overload of sperm and eggs breaking down the next day.

As a comparison of tanks, people keep saying fish, particularly tangs need total darkness in order to thrive and that corals need a pitch black night in order to survive - pardon my French but that's CRAP. (et pas d'offence des francais - j'habite avec une francaise)
My fuge is behind my main tank and it's lit 24/7, the main tank at night is lit to to extent that you can watch everything without a torch, that includes the fish sleeping in their caves, corals with their polyps extended and cleaner shrimp releasing their larvae. The difference is, that although the min tank is dimmly lit, in comparison to the main ligyhts on during the day, it might just as well be dark.
The light doesn't fluctuate in intensity or change at all so it doesn't emmulate the lunar cycle either so doesn't affect spawing cycles either IMO.

I do agree though with an earlier comment about fish being disturbed if the room lights are switched on or accidentally left on, this isn't something that your tank is used to, it's normal for them to get stressed by this. If they are used to a low level background light they take absolutely no notice of it.
If however fish and corals are left in full 24/7 light, this is extremely detrimental to their health and after not too much time they die.

[Will]

will help with coral breeding but as others stated this is dangerous, afaik it has no affect on fish breeding at all !!

just incase people wanted it for that, but if your raising fry then its essential imo {but not to a lunar cycle} to have a very low level so its never totaly dark, helps with keeping broods of fry high :thumbsup:

but imo on a reef tank its a gimic to help you see at night and make the tank look good :rolleyes: