View Full Version : Clowns And Introducing To Nems
hi panel,
I have recently added a bubble tip nem to my 13 month old tank, which also houses a small tank bred Percula clown which I have had for 7+ months.
I guess others will also face similiar issues.
How can I encourage the clown to discover the delights of the anemone?
If he never will, what other options do I have open to me?
I'd love to see some form of clownfish frollicking in my anemone!
Thanks,
Greg
Greg
Your clown will amost certaily go into the anemone by its self, just be patient.
I'm not a betting person, unless there is a dead cert, this would be something I would bet on.
Regards
Martin Lakin
JasandJules
12-12-05, 13:51
Originally posted by Acropora@Dec 12 2005, 11:40
I'm not a betting person, unless there is a dead cert, this would be something I would bet on.
LOL.
So, sitting on the fence then... ;)
thanks Martin,
regards,
greg
After lights out try a couple of small pieces of raw prawn dropped in the tank after main lights out,worked for me and happened within seconds,my clowns were grabbing the prawn pieces and stuffing them into the nem fascinating stuff to watch :lol:
Now these two ways are a last resort and I personally dont reccomend them and would NOT use them myself. I think time is the key to this one... but....
You can try and get a pin clip or a toy of a "nemo" (yes yes I know) if possible smaller than the clown fish.
Put this toy (should be reef safe!!) into the tank next to the nem and hopefully the other fish will see and get jelous if you are lucky and will venture into the nem.
Another cruel way you really should not use is to catch the fish and push it into the nem.
simon garratt
13-12-05, 09:36
Its quite a common problem that tank bred clowns take a long time to move into an anemone. But as martin said, its quite often just a matter of time. One peice of advice i would give though is to avoid the urge to move the anemone. The fish must come to it, and not the other way round.
In many cases where clowns have been kept away from anemones for some time, they may have a reduced mucous coating, in which case they will take sometimes weeks, to gradually acclimatise themselves by occasionally toching the anemone with the tips of the fins or nose prior to moving in fully.
One method of getting them back to commensualism is to introduce a less potant stinging coral as a temporary substitute, such as a hammer coral/frogspawn or pearl bubble. (The latter is my preferd method). in such cases the clown will happily move into the coral which can be moved into an area the clowns commonly reside. once they are used to this, gradually move the coral nearer to the vacinity of the anemone (wihout it touching obviously). and at some point the clowns will move across.
On the raw prawn front: I havent tried this, however dont forget to take into account the size of your system and its ability to deal with any left peices. ie have you got a good clean up crew to take care of any chunks of prawn quickly without it being left to polute the tank overnight possibly causing an ammonia spike.
regards
Si.
SPS Hoover
13-12-05, 10:07
I'm not a betting person, unless there is a dead cert, this would be something I would bet on
Don't bet on my two then, they currently reside in my cat before that they lived in a clam all attempts to house them in an anem have failed. TMC tank breds are a bit thick IMO
Good luck with your two
Si
I found the same with the first pair of captive bred ones I introduced. I then added some more captive ones which were living in anemones in the shop and so they all end up in one anemone or another.
Mind you, with one large green BTA, and half a dozen rose BTAs, a couple of them still spend part of the day in a Euphylia or a Gonipora, but sleeping the night through in the safety of the anemones.
thought i'd add my experience:
I had a pair of black oynx (wild caught) percs that i collected direct from TMC so they never saw a dealer and would (i assume) have not been long out of the wild.
However, when i added a GBTA after 2 weeks they showed no sign of going anywhere near it. They stayed in their corner of the tank or chasing food but did no "tank investigations" like, say my flame angel does who covered every inch of the tank in the first day!
It seemed they had no intention of ever going near it- so after 2 weeks i netted the female and placed the net in front of the nem - the only way out of the net was into the nem and after a couple of brushes against it she dived in with gusto - soon joined by the male.
This (to me) seemed to indicate that the clowns had no idea the nem was there and, had they, they would have gone in sooner. It wasnt a case that they knew of it but didnt want to go in. Is it possible that with a big enough tank and a nem living in a part of the tank that the clowns dont visit.....its only a bit of luck that they bump into each other that one is waiting for?
Perhaps my clowns were shortsighted and didnt like exploration! but i am pretty sure they lack of nem action for the 2 weeks prior was as a result of not knowing it was there as opposed to deliberatly avoiding it.
Tiggsy
should add - if you dont like the netting idea then that is a perfectly valid reason for never using such a technique yourself- i post this to indicate the potential reason for clowns not hoasting as opposed to a recommended solution to that issue.
Originally posted by Tiggsy@Dec 14 2005, 02:03
thought i'd add my experience:
I had a pair of black oynx (wild caught) percs that i collected direct from TMC so they never saw a dealer and would (i assume) have not been long out of the wild.
However, when i added a GBTA after 2 weeks they showed no sign of going anywhere near it. They stayed in their corner of the tank or chasing food but did no "tank investigations" like, say my flame angel does who covered every inch of the tank in the first day!
It seemed they had no intention of ever going near it- so after 2 weeks i netted the female and placed the net in front of the nem - the only way out of the net was into the nem and after a couple of brushes against it she dived in with gusto - soon joined by the male.
This (to me) seemed to indicate that the clowns had no idea the nem was there and, had they, they would have gone in sooner. It wasnt a case that they knew of it but didnt want to go in. Is it possible that with a big enough tank and a nem living in a part of the tank that the clowns dont visit.....its only a bit of luck that they bump into each other that one is waiting for?
Perhaps my clowns were shortsighted and didnt like exploration! but i am pretty sure they lack of nem action for the 2 weeks prior was as a result of not knowing it was there as opposed to deliberatly avoiding it.
Tiggsy
should add - if you dont like the netting idea then that is a perfectly valid reason for never using such a technique yourself- i post this to indicate the potential reason for clowns not hoasting as opposed to a recommended solution to that issue.
Edited by Si'G (ref questioning the validity of Tiggsy's response and the panel allowing that response............. :)
simon garratt
19-12-05, 09:42
Matt. far be it from us to limit a reply if done in honesty and with good intent, its education we are all interested in, even the education of tiggsy maybe............. :)
However............
I didnt get a chance to reply to Tiggsy's post untill now so heres my answer. (im sure the other guys will chime in if need be.
Forcing clowns into an anemone can be a decidedly dodgy move and should be avoided, especially after netting them or capturing them in any manner that may have damaged the protective mucous coating. Remember that clowns themselves are not imune from the stings, they simply desguise themselves by way of a thickened mucous coating in an effort to appear invisible to the anemones chemical receptors. Its not unheard of, for clowns to become another meal for the anemone in such cases or where they have been introduced to an anemone that has a significantly stronger sting (carpet anemones for one). so on the whole i would trust your clowns judgement more than your own and let the clown do its own thing. there is usually an underlying reason why a clown wont dive strait in to an anemone, be it wrong species match, or damage/ lack of protective coating. the clown usually knows best imo.
Regards
Si.
I've posted on the netting method before - I wont go into it again, you can search for it (it went along the lines of what Si G has just posted), but I would never recommend this as a method of getting your clownfish into anemone.
If you are that impatient, then you have not reasearched your species enough (ie, would know the dangers of doing such a thing).
The relationship between clown and anemone is still not fully understood, and untill such a time, the best advice anyone can give is to let them get on with it themselves. Sure, get the natural hosting right first to give them a head start, but at the end of the day, it's they who should decide where they live not you. :rolleyes:
:thumbsup:
"it's they who should decide where they live not you"
I suppose its a scale of acceptance- at one end you have people that feel wild clowns should be left in the ocean and wont accept anything else (and to be fair, they may be closest to the truth), you then have people that accept them being caught but want them treated in a certain way once caught (your avergae fish keeper), next you have me who is happy to have them caught, and happy to have them ushered into a nem....continue on and you have those with no concerns about ill treatment of the fish.
IMO the biggest "wrong" is removing them from the ocean, beyond that i regard the netting* as a minor issue in relation to what the clowns have gone through thus far.
Its interesting what fishkeepers select to be their "social acceptable" practices, for example - i will happily usher a clown into a nem in my 200g system - but wouldnt think of putting a clown in a nano.......however, i would never tell a nano owner they are wrong because their nano is closer to my tank then mine is to the ocean - once again, the real "wrong" has been done already.
* just for clarity, the clown was not "netted" like some carp on the river bank! She swam to to surface, had the net scopped under her and was "ushered" to the nem - where she swam into it - the fish never left the water and had minimal contact with the net - at no time did she shown any sign of panic or stress, on the contary, once in the nem she looked very happy indeed :D
Tiggsy
get an old copy of pfk, find a pic of two clowns frolicking in a nem and stick it to the outside of the tank, looking in, opposite the nem in the tank.
ime they get all territorial and flick about a bit and eventually host the nem. as si says they have to acclimate to the stings and they may nuzzle and mouth the tips of the tentacles.
if the pic doesn't work after a couple of days remove, as it may stress the clown.
I have a pair of false percs, one wild caught orange..one TMC black and white.... the wild was the first marine fish i bought... the b&w went in a while later, they paired within the month and started hosting a frogspawn...
i put in a malu... the malu attached in a matter of 10 minutes, the clowns were hosting it within 1/2 an hour....
luck i guess...
scuse the crap photo
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/Ickypimp/clowns.jpg
On the raw prawn front: I havent tried this, however dont forget to take into account the size of your system and its ability to deal with any left peices. ie have you got a good clean up crew to take care of any chunks of prawn quickly without it being left to polute the tank overnight possibly causing an ammonia spike.
regards
Si.
I don't recall ever getting notification regarding this post,and seeing your quote Si..but now i have and for what it's worth after all this time..with regards to the prawn this would have been maybe a quarter(1cm) which would have been chopped into 4 pieces,after half an hour i removed what was left ..allthough i had sufficiant clean up crew i didnt want it floating around:D ..
just thought i would clear that up and respect the fact you quoted me;)
bearindrag
22-08-06, 17:57
hi i have a large green bta for about 2 yrs and clowns for about a year but my clown still don't go into it they will try other thing euphyllia but not the bta might get anothr one to try chris
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