View Full Version : Tank Computers
Just want a general consensus from most peeps as to whether they think it is justified cause to spend £350/400 on a tank computer.
Cheers
That being said though...
If you need have to end up buying seperate controllers for ORP, PH (often multiple!), temp, level controllers etc then yes it can be just as cheap to get yourself a tank computer
I'd be willing, for the automation and real-time [remote] monitoring. But it is going to end up costing me a little over £400..
I have ponderd this question too. I think if you are serious about the hobby and are in it for the long run it is definatly worth it as stated above you will end up spending much more on individual items! :thumbsup:
no doubt about it.
Stability is key and unless you watch the tank 24/7 you cant beat a computer for keeping thinks on track at all times.
Perfect example.....last night at 9.30pm i glanced at my reactor PH reading on the PC....6.8. Odd, i thought and pulled up a graph over 24 hours - not been over 6.6 all day until 7p when it started to rise. Checked it out in case i was out of CO2 and it turned out it was an iffy one way valve - fixed and by 10.30pm the pc showed reactor PH back to 6.5. Without the pc i would never have known as the CO2 tank showed full - i would only have known when my calcium levels in the tank dropped......maybe something i would have tested for weeks later.
Kev there's a guy who will make you the system you need.
i'll dig out him email address and send it to you.
Kev
Originally posted by Tiggsy@Jan 16 2006, 17:39
no doubt about it.
Stability is key and unless you watch the tank 24/7 you cant beat a computer for keeping thinks on track at all times.
Perfect example.....last night at 9.30pm i glanced at my reactor PH reading on the PC....6.8. Odd, i thought and pulled up a graph over 24 hours - not been over 6.6 all day until 7p when it started to rise. Checked it out in case i was out of CO2 and it turned out it was an iffy one way valve - fixed and by 10.30pm the pc showed reactor PH back to 6.5. Without the pc i would never have known as the CO2 tank showed full - i would only have known when my calcium levels in the tank dropped......maybe something i would have tested for weeks later.
You only need a pH meter to tell you that.
Not knocking the desirability of a comp - just thats maybe not the best example.
Oh - shoudln't u have had it set up to give u an alarm? That would have been a good use of the comp?! ;) :D :lol:
ahhhh...but i can see how long th eproblem has been going on.....anyway- you get the point ;)
oddly....an alarm on the PC is something the Aquatronica WONT do!!!
I think that the answer is for the individual. Yes, computers can save some effort, which is time and hassle.
How much is that worth....depends upon the individual's circumstances. For most, I think that this is the key factor.
Computers can monitor and control many parameters - how important is that ? Depends upon what species the individual wishes to keep, their sensitivity, demands and (put bluntly) cost.
At one extreme, you might have fish only, and at the other corals which have taken 10 years to nurture. The marginal cost of the computer is different in each case.
More important than monitoring parameters (as noted already, there are cheaper ways of monitoring pH than a computer) is the ability to control them. Ie the value of continuous monitoring of pH is (IMO) nice but marginal. You can buy a more accurate manual probe for less than one designed for continuous use via a computer, and it will probably last a lot longer.
But for those using calcium reactors control is usually important and then the manual option isn't acceptable. So, what kit will you be using ?
For many people, computers can save money. Once you decide which parameters are important to control (temperature, time and possibly also water level would be the base minimum), it's easy to work out the cost of a computer versus the individual components.
It's up to the individual to choose those parameters he wishes to control, those he only wishes regularly to check, and the rest is arithmetic.
Plus the choice between one central system or independant components.
kim
Thanks for all the responses so far. Interesting debate :D I think the general consensus is, get one if you can afford it, even if you have to use your flexible friend. :lol:
Kenslovechild
16-01-06, 22:49
Originally posted by aladdin@Jan 16 2006, 17:18
Just want a general consensus from most peeps as to whether they think it is justified cause to spend £350/400 on a tank computer.
Cheers
Expensive toys for gadget loving, lazy people with more money than sense :lol:
Did I tell you about my new sat nav with built in Ipod and remote Phytoplankton dosing unit ??It also creeps upstairs at night and wakes me up if my PH hits 7.9 ??
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Ken
Originally posted by Kenslovechild+Jan 16 2006, 22:49--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kenslovechild @ Jan 16 2006, 22:49)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-aladdin@Jan 16 2006, 17:18
Just want a general consensus from most peeps as to whether they think it is justified cause to spend £350/400 on a tank computer.
Cheers
Expensive toys for gadget loving, lazy people with more money than sense :lol:
Did I tell you about my new sat nav with built in Ipod and remote Phytoplankton dosing unit ??It also creeps upstairs at night and wakes me up if my PH hits 7.9 ??
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Ken [/b][/quote]
or people with little money who are jelous maybee ? :rolleyes:
i think they are, as you never know how far you plan to take your system {you can plan all you want but you will want more}
if you want sps you need a ph probe to controll the co2 injection well thats about 280 then you need all the plug in timers and contactors, and it wont give you the flexability of a computer
my neptune is set
so lights come
and temp goes up due to this, then it turns on fans, then if it continues to rise it turns on a chiller, if it gets hotter the lights reduce saving me my livestock !! how can you do that without a computer if your nt at home all day !!
Originally posted by Kenslovechild+Jan 16 2006, 22:49--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kenslovechild @ Jan 16 2006, 22:49)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-aladdin@Jan 16 2006, 17:18
Just want a general consensus from most peeps as to whether they think it is justified cause to spend £350/400 on a tank computer.
Cheers
Expensive toys for gadget loving, lazy people with more money than sense :lol:
Did I tell you about my new sat nav with built in Ipod and remote Phytoplankton dosing unit ??It also creeps upstairs at night and wakes me up if my PH hits 7.9 ??
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Ken [/b][/quote]
[QUOTE]
On a more serious note what happens when it stops working?
I prefer independent components to a central system, if my PH controller dies I’m not left topping up manually, turning my lights on and off and making sure that my tank doesn’t overheat at the same time as setting the bubble rate on my calcium reactor.
Plus I must admit the price does put me off,
My PH controller was £130
Temp controller £30
Auto top up was £25 (diy job but you can get one for £60)
Timer + relay for lights £30
Total£215
At this price I can afford to buy two of everything so that I always have a backup and it still cost less than a computer.
but it wont give you the flexability of the computer, with a classic example being of what i said about temperature !!
Originally posted by jimmyjayz@Jan 16 2006, 23:31
but it wont give you the flexability of the computer, with a classic example being of what i said about temperature !!
[QUOTE]
My ingenuity gives me flexibility :thumbsup: One £30 temp controller for the fan second controller connected to a relay which turns off the halides at 29 degrees.
This is what it must have been like talking to owners of typewritters in the early 80's
"but if i want to delete something i use this tippex.....why would i need a computer on my desk?"
:D
Originally posted by Tiggsy@Jan 16 2006, 23:57
This is what it must have been like talking to owners of typewritters in the early 80's
"but if i want to delete something i use this tippex.....why would i need a computer on my desk?"
:D
[QUOTE]
And at that time they were right because computers were so expensive and unreliable :ph34r:
Originally posted by Adam C+Jan 17 2006, 00:31--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Adam C @ Jan 17 2006, 00:31)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Tiggsy@Jan 16 2006, 23:57
This is what it must have been like talking to owners of typewritters in the early 80's
"but if i want to delete something i use this tippex.....why would i need a computer on my desk?"
:D
And at that time they were right because computers were so expensive and unreliable :ph34r: [/b]
yep......and now they cheap and work :D (you can now get rid of your typewriter and buy a tank PC at the same time ;))
Originally posted by Adam C+Jan 16 2006, 23:42--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Adam C @ Jan 16 2006, 23:42)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-jimmyjayz@Jan 16 2006, 23:31
but it wont give you the flexability of the computer, with a classic example being of what i said about temperature !!
My ingenuity gives me flexibility :thumbsup: One £30 temp controller for the fan second controller connected to a relay which turns off the halides at 29 degrees. [/b]
okay but not all members on here would have the skills to do this, but they way i have mine setup is far more complax than that, im afriad, the halides get shut off one bulb at a time as heat increases, and the cooling process has a different level ie fans chiller, extractor fans :thumbsup:
michael wareing
17-01-06, 09:50
I am just in the process of buying a Marine set up. I toiled with the idea and then i thought by the time i have spent money on timers, top up system etc then i would only have to spend a bit more to get a comp. At the end of the day i can control everything from the skimmer to the temp and the level of the water......The hobbie moves on.....some people are always going to be stuck in there ways...My mum still cant use the remote on the tv!!!
I wouldn't be without a computer on my tank - it does put all your eggs in one basket though if you do have a breakdown, but so far I've found that if you do have problems the manufacturer will often bend over backwards to get you up and running again. As far as stability, hassel, flexibility, ease of change to parameters and general monitoring are concerned (general monitoring at the glance of the screen for multiple measurements is a major plus factor IMO) you just can't beat them.
I've found that the majority of people who critisise them either don't need one as their systems are as Kim suggested could be FO systems so don't need a sophisticated level of control or they can't actually afford one so they **** them off.
I get the impression most people want them because they need to have the latest gadgets rather than necessity.
And £400 for a extremely basic computer, its a complete utter rip off, you can get a brand new pc and monitor for that price nowadays, how do these companies justify that price?
probably due to low manufacturing quantaties !!!
and £400 nowadays is not that much money when you look at the cost of setting up a good marine tank :thumbsup:
Originally posted by maestro@Jan 17 2006, 09:58
I get the impression most people want them because they need to have the latest gadgets rather than necessity.
And £400 for a extremely basic computer, its a complete utter rip off, you can get a brand new pc and monitor for that price nowadays, how do these companies justify that price?
They justify it because they are selling to people who's time is vaulable to them beyond the £400.
If i buy an Aquatronica i can spend 2-3hrs setting up and then be able to control ANYTHING on my tank based on ANYTHING my probes/timers tell me......this level of control is clearly a million miles from the concept of pluging a heater into a thermostat. In addition i can record/review any number of readings to monitor ANYTHING at ANYTIME......again, a PH meter is fine but it wont tell you that by 3am the PH is too low only to rise before you realise.
Now the above is usefull......even those with no PC (and no intention of getting one) would have to say there are some major benifits to the above.
or.........i can go to PC world and buy a middle of the road PC - then what? If i spend a day working on it it still wont be as user friendly as what i have and i've just blown a day which effectively doubles the price of the PC in lost time!
My life is full of "gadgets" that many would say are not required (ipods, satnav, sky+, wirless home networks, etc, etc) and the reason i buy them is that i dont need to spend time sorting my own soloution. My time is worth enough to me that i'll leave Apple to sort out my stereo and Aquatronica to sort out my fish :D
T
JasandJules
17-01-06, 10:18
My main concern at this point in time is what if the software on the computer has a glitch and decided to leave my heater on and pump the heat up? Computers go wrong, far too often IMO and I am concerned that relying on one little box is going to be a nightmare waiting to happen...
But the gadget side of me says get one now...
michael wareing
17-01-06, 10:25
Originally posted by jimmyjayz@Jan 17 2006, 10:01
probably due to low manufacturing quantaties !!!
and £400 nowadays is not that much money when you look at the cost of setting up a good marine tank :thumbsup:
Exactly ive just shed out 2k and more money is needed. If your going to do it lets do it properley. You only live once!
stan.the.man
17-01-06, 10:27
OK, yes I have thought about buying one of these. But what have people really spent on them to make them useful. It seems to me that you don't get much for the initial £400. Or am I wrong.
Stan
michael wareing
17-01-06, 10:28
Originally posted by JasandJules@Jan 17 2006, 10:18
My main concern at this point in time is what if the software on the computer has a glitch and decided to leave my heater on and pump the heat up? Computers go wrong, far too often IMO and I am concerned that relying on one little box is going to be a nightmare waiting to happen...
But the gadget side of me says get one now...
IT has an alarm! and if there is a power cut a battery is a backup. Telling you how long the power was down. Fantastic i think!
Originally posted by JasandJules@Jan 17 2006, 10:18
My main concern at this point in time is what if the software on the computer has a glitch and decided to leave my heater on and pump the heat up? Computers go wrong, far too often IMO and I am concerned that relying on one little box is going to be a nightmare waiting to happen...
But the gadget side of me says get one now...
good point- i have 3 heaters all run of the pc (2 in sump 1 in tank) - all have their own built in thermostat set at 27....the PC runs the tank at 26 .
if my PC ever showed a temp of 27 i would know something had failed.....i would need a failure of both the PC AND the heater to cause an issue.....if that happened i have a £10 digital probe that alarms at 27.5 (although you could "what if" forever...."what if a plane crashed on my house...i have no plane probe- i'm just risking it ;)
Originally posted by stan.the.man@Jan 17 2006, 10:27
OK, yes I have thought about buying one of these. But what have people really spent on them to make them useful. It seems to me that you don't get much for the initial £400. Or am I wrong.
Stan
Your right...i have over £1k of Aquatronica bits but then i control twice as my items and monitor twice as many levels as you may need to. £400 is a good start.
Originally posted by stan.the.man@Jan 17 2006, 10:27
OK, yes I have thought about buying one of these. But what have people really spent on them to make them useful. It seems to me that you don't get much for the initial £400. Or am I wrong.
Stan
Playing devils advocate :)
I think they are great but overpriced and as said even tho you can pick a system up for £300 but its not going to do much without spending another £200 - £300 on it.
the built in thermostats in side the heater are far more likely to break than the computer ime but as stated above set them up tat way and have no problems
with regards price imo they are not overpriced at all, its just a typical exampleof ur peeps being cheep !!!
they have the lowest margin out of all products that shops sell, by a long way !!!
the shops only sell them as a service not to make money
if you are going to be holding stock and setting up a marine tank, i think you should dig deep as most of the livestock is wild caught and for us money shouldnt be a factor whats best for the livestock should be !!
Intresting thread,
Price comparison (sp?)
(AM = Aqua Medic)
AM Temp control = £130
Habistat Fan control = £30.25
Quality Digi timers x 6 = £120
AM Top up = £80
AM Density / conductivity = £197
AM ORP control = £143.76
AM ORP probe = £ 65
AM Ph control = £143.76
AM Ph probe = £46.35
TOTAL = £956.12
Aquatronica
Base + 6plug bar + temp = £338.98
PH = £107.98
ORP = £117.98
Top up = £20.99
Density = £177.98
TOTAL (no PC Interface) = £763.91
PC software = £59.99
PC Interface = £24.99
GRAND TOTAL = £848.89
So in my case the cheaper option is the Aquatroinca, with the added bonus of more flexiblity and control...................
Gog
"with the added bonus of more flexiblity and control"
very much the case- i'm not sure people that dont have a tank pc really realise the benifits of one in terms of stuff it can do/track.
no I see liitle point and I have one.
Dont use it though.
Got a seperate PH monitor (use this).
Lights all on timers (cheap)
Streams all controlled by Tunze controller.
What else is there.
I'd sell mine but I'm a lazy git and cant be arsed to calibrate it all to test it and then pack it all up to fleebay it.
Craig
Also I think alot of people buy them because its a computer therefore its never wrong is it? yeah right.
No substitute for good husbandary IMHO.
Test kits etc Only test kit that is cack is PH and I use my PH controller to control my Calcium reactor, with out which I wouldnt even bother with the PH controller.
"No substitute for good husbandary IMHO"
its not about substituting good husbandary.....its about being able to monitor and control a much wider range of varibles on a tank to facilitate the running of it and lessen the time spent doing so.
T
for many it it though....they think that if I have a computer then my tank will be more stable and much easier to keep.
How would a newbie know if there was a problem if they just reply on a computer telling them there was a problem, computer go wrong (I should know I'm in IT).
I spend 5 mins a day on my tank (feeding etc), and maybe 1 hour on a saturday doing a huge 50 gallon water change and replace the kalk.
What would a computer do to help or reduce that.
Short an curely is you do NOT need a computer to run a fish tank.
Good set of timers (mine are digital), Refractometer, etc is all you need.
Yes maybe I'm lucky and dont need a temp monitor as I have a chiller to save me and I dont need a thermostat in my tank due to the size and lighting. But my tank is 7.5ft, SPS, LPS etc. And I dont need a computer.
If you like yours then great. I'm not saying dont have one, what I'm saying is you dont NEED one in alot of cases.
CRaig
"How would a newbie know if there was a problem if they just reply on a computer "
thats not a newbie - thats an idiot ;) i'm new with a computer but can still tell if somethings up.
no one is saying you NEED one anymore than you need Sky + (bad example....i do NEED that ;0)
Originally posted by evilervin@Jan 17 2006, 11:06
Intresting thread,
Price comparison (sp?)
(AM = Aqua Medic)
AM Temp control = £130
Habistat Fan control = £30.25
Quality Digi timers x 6 = £120
AM Top up = £80
AM Density / conductivity = £197
AM ORP control = £143.76
AM ORP probe = £ 65
AM Ph control = £143.76
AM Ph probe = £46.35
TOTAL = £956.12
Aquatronica
Base + 6plug bar + temp = £338.98
PH = £107.98
ORP = £117.98
Top up = £20.99
Density = £177.98
TOTAL (no PC Interface) = £763.91
PC software = £59.99
PC Interface = £24.99
GRAND TOTAL = £848.89
So in my case the cheaper option is the Aquatroinca, with the added bonus of more flexiblity and control...................
Gog
That's not really a fair comparison.
You'd likely need an extra plug bar for the aquatronica.
And a habistat thermostat is only £30.
And you can pick up a pH controller for £90 including probe.
ORP is not something that is top of the list to monitor unless you are using ozone.
So you've fudged the figures in the favour of the aquatronica.
BUT having said that it is still a useful exercise to do the sums rather than just assume that separates will work out cheaper.
"That's not really a fair comparison.
You'd likely need an extra plug bar for the aquatronica."
Would you? I have 2 but dont really need it.
and its not a like for like comparsion as the PC will do many times more than the list of seperates. its like saying a type writter, a dictionary, a calculator, a pack of pens and a hi-fi costs £500 - a PC cost £600.....i think most would still opt for the PC!
Originally posted by ccraig
If you like yours then great. I'm not saying dont have one, what I'm saying is you dont NEED one in alot of cases. It is a tool, and it is a useful tool. Unfortunately, you've persuaded yourself otherwise.
JasandJules
17-01-06, 12:54
I would need three plug bars at this point just to run the reef and FO tanks from my rough calculations of odds and sods I would run from it.
Also, my point about it failing was more, if the heater fails, and I have a habistat controller, then hopefully the habistat will switch on a fan i.e. a failsafe. If the habistat went wrong and left the fan on then hopefully the heater would kick in and keep the temp up. Soo, both of them need to go wrong to cause me a problem. But if the one computer goes down, I would lose control of two tanks, all the lighting and heating and cooling........
Also, in respect of an alarm, all well and good, but we leave the house at 7am and get back around 7.30pm. You need to be in to hear an alarm.
Also, in respect of an alarm, all well and good, but we leave the house at 7am and get back around 7.30pm. You need to be in to hear an alarm.
I believe an sms alert system is in the pipeline :lol:
It is a tool, and it is a useful tool. Unfortunately, you've persuaded yourself otherwise.
Honestly I cant be bothered to react to that.
Hang on yes I can.
How about you have persuaded yourself that a computer is necessary.
I have one and used one and came to the conclusion that I dont need one, through experience.
the computer is not there to substitute good husbandary,
heres what the computer does for me and what it saves me in the long run.
controls ph and saves wasting any co2 (not much money saved on co2 but it adds up)
controlss temp, saves me haveing to by an expensive chiller as i can set numerouse amount of fans to come on as the temp reaches rises.(saveing around 4-500 pound on a chiller)
controls ozone stop me overdoseing (save my health and life priceless)
plus all the other controlls it possess
i still have to check on the tank mate every day and perform water changes (although i coukd automate them) clean the glass feed them ect ect ect , and it allows me to know whether any thing has happend dureing the day and to check the diffrence between last week and this week , and by keeping all the temps ph sg at a stable level its reduces the risk of stress ect on the tanl inhabitants,
all priceless if you ask me,
besides if its such a bad thing why do fishfarms,wholesallers,public aquariums, all use them?
I believe an sms alert system is in the pipeline
Great all you need when 200 miles away etc is a sms message to say your tank is fooked :lol:
Originally posted by Tiggsy+Jan 17 2006, 12:40--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tiggsy @ Jan 17 2006, 12:40)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> "That's not really a fair comparison.
You'd likely need an extra plug bar for the aquatronica."
Would you? I have 2 but dont really need it.
[/b]
Yes - to maintain my current control/functionallity I would
halides x1 or 2 (currently on timer)
actinics x1 (currently on timer)
calc reactor x 2 = pump + solenoid (both currently on timer - ideally would also have pH control)
kalk reactor x2 = pump (currently under pH control + timer) + stirrer (currently on timer)
heater x1 (currently on habistat)
top up pump x1 (currently tunze)
cooling fan x1 (currently habistat)
So that makes nine without having redundancy for extra heater and also no ORP control or SG control of water change mixing etc)
<!--QuoteBegin-Tiggsy@Jan 17 2006, 12:40
and its not a like for like comparsion as the PC will do many times more than the list of seperates. its like saying a type writter, a dictionary, a calculator, a pack of pens and a hi-fi costs £500 - a PC cost £600.....i think most would still opt for the PC! [/quote]
No but I was just pointing out it wasn't a fair cost comparison. If I was on a desert island with no power I'd go for the pens, typewriter. NOT trying to be pedantic - but its horses for courses and depends on what you need - or in some cases what you think you need. I'm not anti them at all - I think they can be very useful if you use them to their full capacity. But again having multiple devices does give an added level of safety in the event of failure.
Originally posted by craigg@Jan 17 2006, 13:11
I believe an sms alert system is in the pipeline
Great all you need when 200 miles away etc is a sms message to say your tank is fooked :lol:
Lol very true! but at least you know and depending on what has gone wrong with the LAN interface they are developing you might be able to log in remotly and fix it (depending on what the problem is of course!!) :thumbsup:
You'd likely need an extra plug bar for the aquatronica.
You failed to read this bit: "So in my case the cheaper option is the Aquatroinca........"
And a habistat thermostat is only £30.
And you can pick up a pH controller for £90 including probe.
Okay, fair enough; but that still makes the Aquatronic cheaper.
ORP is not something that is top of the list to monitor unless you are using ozone
I was thinking along the line of "future proof", but okay if i removed the orp:
Seperates = £647.35
Aquatronica (no pc interface) = £645.93
" " " " (with pc interface) = £730.91
Personal i DONT own one....... but oviously thinking about it, mainly for "space saving" reasons, would rather one unit, as apposed to 3 or 4.
So you've fudged the figures in the favour of the aquatronica
No afraid not, like i said, I'm just trying to deside weither to get one or not............ prices are off STM or Aqua-World web sites
Gog
Originally posted by craigg@Jan 17 2006, 13:11
I believe an sms alert system is in the pipeline
Great all you need when 200 miles away etc is a sms message to say your tank is fooked :lol:
so so true!!
:lol:
i removed that from my burglar alarm system on my house for that very reason!
:angry:
besides if its such a bad thing why do fishfarms,wholesallers,public aquariums, all use them?
All very true HOWEVER I'm sure there are just as many that dont use a computer and are just as succesfull.
And I'm not saying there bad, I'm saying you dont need them, thats all.
It would be wrong of me when someone has asked if they are necessary or whatever if I dont put my findings up.
I have through experience come to the conclusion that I dont need a computer, therefore if I dont then others dont, I'm sure there are many that do need or reply on them as well.
They have there uses for some but not everyone.
Most of the reefers I know do use PH controllers etc but DO NOT have a full aqua computer. Some of these tanks are the most amazing you will see.
Great, if you want one, get one but and its an important but you dont have to have one to run a succesful reef.
Craig
Originally posted by evilervin@Jan 17 2006, 13:14
So you've fudged the figures in the favour of the aquatronica
No afraid not, like i said, I'm just trying to deside weither to get one or not............ prices are off STM or Aqua-World web sites
Gog
Well - if you were looking to acheive what you want in as cheap (but still reliable) a way as possible then I still think its not a fair comparison - but as i said I think it is a valid comparison to make - it's just that the sums will not be the same for everyone.
michael wareing
17-01-06, 13:24
Originally posted by JasandJules@Jan 17 2006, 12:54
I would need three plug bars at this point just to run the reef and FO tanks from my rough calculations of odds and sods I would run from it.
Also, my point about it failing was more, if the heater fails, and I have a habistat controller, then hopefully the habistat will switch on a fan i.e. a failsafe. If the habistat went wrong and left the fan on then hopefully the heater would kick in and keep the temp up. Soo, both of them need to go wrong to cause me a problem. But if the one computer goes down, I would lose control of two tanks, all the lighting and heating and cooling........
Also, in respect of an alarm, all well and good, but we leave the house at 7am and get back around 7.30pm. You need to be in to hear an alarm.
true true, but at least you would know at 7! rather than do other stuff and then realise something was wrong just as you were going to bed. Maybe you should buy the sms option so you know what is happening when you are at work
Well - if you were looking to acheive what you want in as cheap (but still reliable) a way as possible then I still think its not a fair comparison - but as i said I think it is a valid comparison to make - it's just that the sums will not be the same for everyone.
Doesnt matter now, just had a rethink, I DO need 2 plug bars, so thats another £139.99
Seperates = £647.35
Aquatronica (no pc interface) = £785.92
" " " " (with pc interface) = £870.90
Now im buggered! :lol:
Gog
Do they come with 6 plugs on each bar? I think even with my modest set up it will be borderline wether I need 2 or not :angry:
steve,
dont forget some things dont need to be on the pc plug bar.....my calc reactor has 3 plugs, the fluidiser - the co2 and the peri for flow. Only the co2 is plugged into the PC - the peri runs on a digitimer and the fluidiser is on all the time on a normal socket. You only hook stuff up to the pc if you want to control it based on a level the pc can monitor......TBH time is such an easy thing to monitor if all you want is a fancy timer its not worth it...its about more than that.
for example- when the calc probe is out i will plug in my peri to the PC and have it drip based on calc needs.....until then theres no need.
james,
as above- do you have more than 6 things to automate?
Originally posted by evilervin@Jan 17 2006, 13:25
Well - if you were looking to acheive what you want in as cheap (but still reliable) a way as possible then I still think its not a fair comparison - but as i said I think it is a valid comparison to make - it's just that the sums will not be the same for everyone.
Doesnt matter know, just had a rethink, I DO need 2 plug bars, so thats another £139.99
Seperates = £647.35
Aquatronica (no pc interface) = £785.92
" " " " (with pc interface) = £870.90
Now im buggered! :lol:
Gog
Oh - go on you know you want one!!
Actually one thing to bear in mind is not to spend money on all the separates and then end up buying a computer on top of that several months later!
Anyway it's an interesting discussion - like most things in this hobby there's lots of ways to skin the proverbial cat!
michael wareing
17-01-06, 13:33
Originally posted by Stevielad+Jan 17 2006, 13:12--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Stevielad @ Jan 17 2006, 13:12)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Tiggsy@Jan 17 2006, 12:40
"That's not really a fair comparison.
You'd likely need an extra plug bar for the aquatronica."
Would you? I have 2 but dont really need it.
Yes - to maintain my current control/functionallity I would
halides x1 or 2 (currently on timer)
actinics x1 (currently on timer)
calc reactor x 2 = pump + solenoid (both currently on timer - ideally would also have pH control)
kalk reactor x2 = pump (currently under pH control + timer) + stirrer (currently on timer)
heater x1 (currently on habistat)
top up pump x1 (currently tunze)
cooling fan x1 (currently habistat)
So that makes nine without having redundancy for extra heater and also no ORP control or SG control of water change mixing etc)
<!--QuoteBegin-Tiggsy@Jan 17 2006, 12:40
and its not a like for like comparsion as the PC will do many times more than the list of seperates. its like saying a type writter, a dictionary, a calculator, a pack of pens and a hi-fi costs £500 - a PC cost £600.....i think most would still opt for the PC!
No but I was just pointing out it wasn't a fair cost comparison. If I was on a desert island with no power I'd go for the pens, typewriter. NOT trying to be pedantic - but its horses for courses and depends on what you need - or in some cases what you think you need. I'm not anti them at all - I think they can be very useful if you use them to their full capacity. But again having multiple devices does give an added level of safety in the event of failure. [/b][/quote]
And how much did that all cost ???? A computer is just condensing everything!
Originally posted by Tiggsy@Jan 17 2006, 13:28
steve,
dont forget some things dont need to be on the pc plug bar.....my calc reactor has 3 plugs, the fluidiser - the co2 and the peri for flow. Only the co2 is plugged into the PC - the peri runs on a digitimer and the fluidiser is on all the time on a normal socket. You only hook stuff up to the pc if you want to control it based on a level the pc can monitor......TBH time is such an easy thing to monitor if all you want is a fancy timer its not worth it...its about more than that.
for example- when the calc probe is out i will plug in my peri to the PC and have it drip based on calc needs.....until then theres no need.
james,
as above- do you have more than 6 things to automate?
Yes - but if you read the thread my issue was with the cost comparison for separates vs all in one. I'm not saying I would actually run it that way.
Originally posted by Stevielad+Jan 17 2006, 13:33--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Stevielad @ Jan 17 2006, 13:33)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Tiggsy@Jan 17 2006, 13:28
steve,
dont forget some things dont need to be on the pc plug bar.....my calc reactor has 3 plugs, the fluidiser - the co2 and the peri for flow.Â* Only the co2 is plugged into the PC - the peri runs on a digitimer and the fluidiser is on all the time on a normal socket.Â* You only hook stuff up to the pc if you want to control it based on a level the pc can monitor......TBH time is such an easy thing to monitor if all you want is a fancy timer its not worth it...its about more than that.
for example- when the calc probe is out i will plug in my peri to the PC and have it drip based on calc needs.....until then theres no need.
james,
as above- do you have more than 6 things to automate?
Yes - but if you read the thread my issue was with the cost comparison for separates vs all in one. I'm not saying I would actually run it that way. [/b][/quote]
AM Temp control = £130
Habistat Fan control = £30.25
Quality Digi timers x 6 = £120
AM Top up = £80
AM Density / conductivity = £197
AM ORP control = £143.76
AM ORP probe = £ 65
AM Ph control = £143.76
AM Ph probe = £46.35
would that need more tha 6 plugs to replicate though?
you are looking at a heater, fan, top up pump, co2 solenoid.....2 plugs left for Orp- no idea how that works but one plug should do it?
michael wareing
17-01-06, 13:38
Originally posted by james141@Jan 17 2006, 13:27
Do they come with 6 plugs on each bar? I think even with my modest set up it will be borderline wether I need 2 or not :angry:
Well it depends how big your tank is. As we all know the bigger the tank the more the cost. I have one Halide ,one heater,one top up,one skimmer,and one return sump pump.Thats 5! Yippee
Originally posted by michael wareing@Jan 17 2006, 13:33
And how much did that all cost ???? A computer is just condensing everything!
halides x1 or 2 (currently on timer) actinics x1 (currently on timer)
calc reactor x 2 = pump + solenoid (both currently on timer - ideally would also have pH control)
kalk reactor x2 = pump (currently under pH control + timer) + stirrer (currently on timer)
heater x1 (currently on habistat)
top up pump x1 (currently tunze)
cooling fan x1 (currently
One high A rate timer for halides = £25 from ebay
6 normal timers digital ones from argos = 14 x 3 twin packs = £42
Habistat cool control = £25
Habistat pulse thermostat = £35
pH controller + probe = £95 (ebay)
Tunze osmolator = £110
£332
Having a multicomponent system that maintains excellent husbandary = PRICELESS... ;)
I have:
1 x Thermometer
2 x Set of T5's
1 x Set of led's (night)
3 x powerheads
1 x Skimmer
1 x Set of pc fans
I guess all powerheads can go on an extension lead to 1 socket on the aquatronica, even then I dont need this I just wanted a nice option to turn all 3 off for feeding etc :)
Thinking about it thou I guess the skimmer doesnt need to go on there nor do the LED lights
So 1 should be enough to start with :thumbsup:
Edit: unfortunalty I have spent £70 on an autotop up which works fine so that can stay on its own. Just goes to show I could have saved that 70 quid had I gone for it sooner!
Originally posted by michael wareing+Jan 17 2006, 13:38--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (michael wareing @ Jan 17 2006, 13:38)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-james141@Jan 17 2006, 13:27
Do they come with 6 plugs on each bar? I think even with my modest set up it will be borderline wether I need 2 or not :angry:
Well it depends how big your tank is. As we all know the bigger the tank the more the cost. I have one Halide ,one heater,one top up,one skimmer,and one return sump pump.Thats 5! Yippee [/b][/quote]
Not really - my tank is small but it still sucks up the calcium so needs the pH control etc associated with a Kalk stirrer and Calc reactor.
Originally posted by james141@Jan 17 2006, 13:39
Edit: unfortunalty I have spent £70 on an autotop up which works fine so that can stay on its own. Just goes to show I could have saved that 70 quid had I gone for it sooner!
There's always ebay!!
stan.the.man
17-01-06, 13:42
Its not just a case of what is the difference in costs, most of us have all the equipment already. It would be another matter if I was starting over from the beginning.
Stan
Originally posted by james141@Jan 17 2006, 13:39
I have:
1 x Thermometer
2 x Set of T5's
1 x Set of led's (night)
3 x powerheads
1 x Skimmer
1 x Set of pc fans
I guess all powerheads can go on an extension lead to 1 socket on the aquatronica, even then I dont need this I just wanted a nice option to turn all 3 off for feeding etc :)
Thinking about it thou I guess the skimmer doesnt need to go on there nor do the LED lights
So 1 should be enough to start with :thumbsup:
james,
you would plug in your heater, T5's, powerheads (all on one socket) and fans.
you now have 2 spare plugs!
your heaters and fans control the temp, your t5's are on a timer and shut down if it overheats, you can shut of your pumps for feeding......not sure what you do with the 3 spare - maybe plug in your hifi so it plays Yellow Submarine when the fish wake up?
you would plug in your heater, T5's, powerheads (all on one socket) and fans.
you now have 2 spare plugs!
your heaters and fans control the temp, your t5's are on a timer and shut down if it overheats, you can shut of your pumps for feeding......not sure what you do with the 3 spare - maybe plug in your hifi so it plays Yellow Submarine when the fish wake up?
This is what I was thinking :)
I am adding a sump so I am sure I will be able to find a use for the other 2 plugs, I will probably use a level switch to add some failsafe's in to the system :)
Originally posted by james141@Jan 17 2006, 13:46
I will probably use a level switch to add some failsafe's in to the system :)
thats what i have- i have level switches in the display to protect against flood, the return to protect against the pump running dry and another for RO top up.
michael wareing
17-01-06, 13:56
Originally posted by Tiggsy+Jan 17 2006, 13:42--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tiggsy @ Jan 17 2006, 13:42)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-james141@Jan 17 2006, 13:39
I have:
1 x Thermometer
2 x Set of T5's
1 x Set of led's (night)
3 x powerheads
1 x Skimmer
1 x Set of pc fans
I guess all powerheads can go on an extension lead to 1 socket on the aquatronica, even then I dont need this I just wanted a nice option to turn all 3 off for feeding etc :)
Thinking about it thou I guess the skimmer doesnt need to go on there nor do the LED lights
So 1 should be enough to start withÂ* :thumbsup:
james,
you would plug in your heater, T5's, powerheads (all on one socket) and fans.
you now have 2 spare plugs!
your heaters and fans control the temp, your t5's are on a timer and shut down if it overheats, you can shut of your pumps for feeding......not sure what you do with the 3 spare - maybe plug in your hifi so it plays Yellow Submarine when the fish wake up? [/b][/quote]
if you plugged the heater and and the fan in one socked how would the fans cool everything.Am i being thick!?
lol- i meant one socket each :D
sorry not sure how to qoute but going back to the refrence regarding sms and not being able to do something about it, if i received an sms from my tank while at work or away at least i can phone and ask the key holder/wife to have a look and talk them through rectifying?
Originally posted by pbmdazza@Jan 17 2006, 14:11
sorry not sure how to qoute but going back to the refrence regarding sms and not being able to do something about it, if i received an sms from my tank while at work or away at least i can phone and ask the key holder/wife to have a look and talk them through rectifying?
YOU can...but i expect some on here still use telegrams ;)
Hmm,
To be honest I've never used most of the monitors that many seem to use and have never needed them. I think we often look at way too many variables when a simple approach is often just as good.
You can monitor almost everything these days but do we really need to?
I have only ever tested for PH/Temp/Salinity/Nitrate/Amm. Very occasionally test calc/DKH.
Thats it really. The look of the tank and experience will tell you more than a probe for dissolved oxygen etc etc.
I'll wait to get flamed now :lol:
Just my opinion.
Mark.
"The look of the tank and experience will tell you more than a probe for dissolved oxygen etc etc."
yes and no.....how it looks wont tell you if temp drifts too low at 3am or shut of your return pump if your overflow blocks.
the concepts of good husbandry and "looking" at the tank are not being replaced by pc's........we are simply using them in addition.
There are things i can see that the PC cant and there are things it can detect that i cant.....as long as i have my eyes and my pc i have all bases covered!
Originally posted by Tiggsy@Jan 17 2006, 15:59
"The look of the tank and experience will tell you more than a probe for dissolved oxygen etc etc."
yes and no.....how it looks wont tell you if temp drifts too low at 3am or shut of your return pump if your overflow blocks.
the concepts of good husbandry and "looking" at the tank are not being replaced by pc's........we are simply using them in addition.
There are things i can see that the PC cant and there are things it can detect that i cant.....as long as i have my eyes and my pc i have all bases covered!
Any way - you must REALLY need a tank computer - the amount of time you spend on here you can hardly ever see your tank! :D :D ;)
I have my PC in front of me and the tank in the next room :D So i can opt for eyes or probes....choices, choices.
T
ps- its Tues....who works on Tuesdays? I'm still winding back up after the weekend :D
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