View Full Version : Maybe the future lighting systems
Maybe in 5 to 10 years time.
http://www.pfolighting.com/Aquarium-LED-Lighting.aspx
Martyn ;)
Aha, I've been wondering when LEDs would be adapted for the main lights reefkeeping. Sounds good, but how much, I ask myself?
Edit: just found out - only $1600 - odd for a 4ft tank.
One for the future ! It's good to see a major manufacturer taking the lead, can only help (and is a sign that things are coming along).
I'd love to see the spectrum. An individual LED (AFAIK) only emits light at a single wavelength, so you not only need a lot of them, you need quite a few different ones too. With two, you could get any correlated colour temperature you wanted by changing the output of either, but it would be a strange animal !
But once they are small enough to pack in, yes, it should be possible to choose your own spectrum by adjusting output of the various colours(though that in reality means reducing output from the maximum, so you need some "extra" to begin with). Plus a bit of UV too ?
Quite exciting.
No more discussions on 10,000 K versus 14,000 K....just "where's your dial" ? I can imagine the gadgets they could sell us - nice yellow light morning and evening, blue at midday, very yellow at night (why does everyone go for blue......ever seen a blue moon ?) and suspect that PFO Lighting are thinking the same ! Good for them.
:)
kim
i'd be up for some of that, price may well dictate who can/cannot afford them though.
like anything, once the competition takes off and they have established themselves the price will start to drop. in theory anyway i can't see why once these work and are popular you wont be able to buy a basic set up for a couple of quid. they are just led's afterall.
They cost about around the same as arcadia or guiseman MH pendants.
I think PFO have got it right this time. They have also had loads of help from Lumiled (LED specialists) who have thrown loads of money into solving problems. Looks like this is going to be the future
just wondering how they compare to metal halides?
i.e wattage and light output(fair enough being a lower wattage but do they emit proportionaly more light?)
also how do you go about higher wattages over smaller areas?
i.e 150w halide over a tank of softies and a 400w halide over the same size tank for sps!
hope that makes sence:D
Nick
petergillett
03-05-06, 11:48
Would be nice if they sell it as a pendant plus separate controller and standardise the interface! That way people like Aquatronica/IKS can add control to their software via a suitable interface. That way if you've already got "computers" you can eliminate all the cost of the software/hardware/controller and keep the overall control in one place.
craighuckins
04-05-06, 13:10
Don't forget thought folks the life expectancy of those LED's is 7.6 years for the white's at 12 hours a day - Assuming no-one is daft enough to be paying more than £30 per halide bulb (150w), and that you'd run two over a 4' tank and change tham every 18 months, In that time you would go through 11 halide bulbs at a cost of £330. Plus the LED's won't drop intensity and be a hell of a lot more energy efficient!!! So it's not looking that costly after all....
craighuckins
04-05-06, 13:12
...good point peter! hadn't taken those costs into account...!
craighuckins
04-05-06, 13:14
Nick, there are 5mm LED's out now that are too bright to look at with the naked eye without causing damage. Don't forget that LED's have integral lenses that fire out at a relatively small angle (IRO 15-30 degrees) so you won't lose light with reflectors, cover glasses etc. and can position them a couple of centimetres off the water surface!
are they going to be readily sold in the UK. It might be worth a distributor in the UK going for it now to buy these in so we as UK reefers can have some.
Very interesting! I wonder if you'll get the shimmer you get with halides?
i wouldn't have thought you'll get the ripples like with halides due to led's not requiring reflectors, nor having all the light from a single source.
mind you if you had the output pulsing, you may be able to get slight ripples, but you would be able to create cloud coverage and storms, technically.
There's been a number of documented tries at LED lighting on various forums, i've yet to see a successful attempt whereby LED's don't lose significant output or go completely after a realtively short amount of time.
Granted this is a professional attempt, but I'd want to see evidence of long term success before I invested that kind of money.
It's interesting stuff though, and the ability to change kelvin with a control module would be amazing.
There's been a number of documented tries at LED lighting on various forums, i've yet to see a successful attempt whereby LED's don't lose significant output or go completely after a realtively short amount of time.
Granted this is a professional attempt, but I'd want to see evidence of long term success before I invested that kind of money.
It's interesting stuff though, and the ability to change kelvin with a control module would be amazing.
Exactly!
BTW; If one LED, or one strip of LEDs stop working, you will probably have to replace the entire unit. Although LEDs are cheap, these units (if replacable at all) will likely be very costly...
One for the futute though!
Very interesting! I wonder if you'll get the shimmer you get with halides?
I think you may get far more of a ripple than with halides, as in theory, the point source should be a lot smaller.
Bring it on :D
Cheers
Chris :)
waterfalls
07-05-06, 10:07
The biggest problem with LEDs is heat dissipation. Colour temperature is not a problem as the White LEDs are not monocromatic. Osram already has introduced red, blue and green chip on one LED. They already have colour sequencing device and also by individual dimming and mixing the three primary colours, any colour or colour temperature can be obtained.
In a cluster of LEds, the ones in the middle has the biggest problem of heat dissipation. What happens if the ones in the middle fail. Are they interchangeable?
Very bright LEds are not very far. Work has already started on LED as headlight units for cars.
Its the costs. Still a few years away.
craighuckins
09-05-06, 13:19
Yes you do get the shimmer with LED's. I was using 5mm hyperbright blues and violets for moonlights for a while and you got a pronounced ripple virtually identical to halides.
You'd get a shimmer from a single LED, but once you use a couple of hundred, each creating their own pattern, a lot of the ripples will cancel out and disappear.
I'd still like to see the spectrum emitted by that product. Sure, dialling in a colour temperature might be easy, but it's really the spectrum that's important, and it could be very limited.
kim
kim,
How about one of these? http://www.pro-design.com.au/product_info.php?product_id=504
16 million different colours, totally waterproof, will light a building from 150 feet away.
Link it to the stereo and let the disco begin:D
Andrew,
That's 16 million colours perceived by the human brain, not a continuous spectrum of light. Looks like it has three sets of LEDs, so the light will be emitted at three different wavelengths only. You don't shift the wavelengths, you have only those three to choose from, to create the visual perception that you desire. Just like a colour TV.
Corals don't have eyes and so (I would guess) have a reduced aesthetic sensibility. No good for them....they are interested in the wavelengths, not the overall impression of colour.
:)
But it would be quite groovy ! Think the neighbours might complain.....
kim
Glenn@home
09-05-06, 17:12
Shouldnt the cost savings be realised in the running too?
Since most of the erngy for a halide and a lot of the energy for a tube be wasted in lots of heat, so a 400w lamp consumes 400watts but doesnt give out 400watts in light.
As i recall with LEDs the relationship to energy consuemd versus output is very favbourable.
Glenn
Kim,
You don't actually mean you would pick the spectrum to suit the corals do you:eek: What ever happened to "it looks pretty" and "mine's got a higher K than yours"? :p
I just liked the idea of "auto rotation through 16 million colours" and "bands of sweeping colour" (much more fun than boring ripples!)- sorry I'm a 70's mirror ball man at heart:cool:
As you say most of these LED's have one peak in their spectrum not several. But the white ones usually have two or three peaks.
There's a nifty comparison of floro tubes/metal halides/sodiums and LEDs here: http://www.ccs-inc.co.jp/eng/bio/technology/
As you can see to get a "halide-like" spectrum you are going to need several colours of LEDs, but it could be done. Just not AFAIK with three sets of LED's. Edit: almost forgot-look where those LED peaks are in comparison to PAR.
Andrew,
I bet it could be done, just before buying I'd want to see that it had been done (as you say, details could get lost in the race for K !). And you might want some near-UV to make your sticks nice and colourful, I guess. I wonder if anybody makes those ?
:)
Nice link, happy looking lettuce !
kim
hmmm not wanting to get into the lighting and colours again been well discussed and argued over for years lol.
I found 400w for irridance and 10k was fine gave a natural colour to my corals as I compared them to when sunlight falls on my tanks when the door is open.
How they can look under 400w 10k with decent large reflectors
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/Mh019%20mid%20tank%201.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/Mh023%20tank%202%20swaps.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploads/Mh024%20crop%20sec.jpg
Regards
Martyn
Show off !
Martyn,
Five years ago LEDs were about half as efficient as halides (lumens per watt of power), now they are about twice as efficient as halides (they claim), and people are hoping for similar leaps in performance over the next few years.
Still a lot of issues involved....life, heat (in a tiny lamp running on a semiconductor this is still a problem). But if you could (one day fairly soon) swap your 400W for 50W LEDs, with fantastic reflectors built into them so all the output hits the tank and doesn't spill everywhere, and with much reduced heat issues, you'd be pretty excited !
Not yet, I think ! But worth watching.
kim
LOl Kim why you think I added this thread.
For my situation it will be very useful indeed when much research has been done and then maybe a change over.
i could allways test on 1 of my tanks when the prices are right and a little more is known and of course when they are available in the UK.
I do use a selection of MH 400w and 250w and 150w but all 10k
Regards
Martyn
BTW Kim how can you upload pics here nowadays ??
Martyn,
The board was upgraded a short while back so the uploader isn't yet working.
When I say a "short" while, ask yourself how short is a piece of string !
kim
Oh thanks for the info Kim.
I will have to work on a different way of getting pics up then arg that uploader was a useful tool.
Martyn
Oh thanks for the info Kim.
I will have to work on a different way of getting pics up then arg that uploader was a useful tool.
Martyn
You will have to use a site like
http://photobucket.com/
John.
Thanks a million John
This is a pic of one of my Mh 400w 10k and reflector on my bank of top row tanks.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h31/MartynHul/MH006a.jpg
I bought the 8 reflectors for the top row ready made the remaining 12 reflectors I bought 4 large sheets of the same material that the ready made ones where made of and custom built them to fit into the middle row and bottom row of tanks.
2 reflectors cover a 72"L X 30"W tank giving full lighting to all corals even getting good light to the side of corals that are near the glass and glass facing sides.
As you can see from some of the pics I added a few posts back.
Martyn
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