View Full Version : Potential Milli problem-please advise
Hi,
I recently bought a stunning pink A.Millipora
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j60/AntsReef/ec6b2931.jpg
In general it seems ok and puts out massive long polyps at night.
However several of the branch tips(for up to an inch) appear to have slightly bleached but more worryingly seem to have a film of brown algae on them.
All my parameters are spot on so I'm beginning to think it may be a light problem. The milli was previously under 400w 20k bulbs and it is now midway under a 10k 250w bulb and a 14k Arcadia 250w bulb. I beleive that a 400w 20k bulb probably puts out less PAR than either a 10k or a 14k bulb even though they are only 250w. In the opinion of any of the SPS experts here could this be a light problem and if so would it be worthwhile changing my 14k bulb to a 20k 250w. I hope this can be resolved because it is a truly special coral and I would hate it to suffer and decline,
thanks,
Anthony
p.s. Lowering the coral in the tank is not really an option as due to its size I really can't fit in lower down
simon garratt
20-07-06, 08:49
If it was previously under 20K's Anthony im guessing light shock from the increased PAR of the 10K's (especially taking into consideration the damage is at the growth tips which is where the most sensitive tissue is.
I doubt changing the bulb at this stage will make much difference as the damage has allready been done. so i would suggest, just cutting your lighting back by two hours for the time being, and snipping off all the damage branches to about 1/2" below the damage lines. New tissue will grow over with a better quantity of protective pigment and the coral should recover quite quickly.
You might find a course of 0.75ml of aqueous iodine / 200gall every 3 days for a week or two helps limit bacterial problems and aids the growth of new pigments... (please use a test kit though to avoid overdose as its nasty stuff if not used properly).
regards
Si.
Thank Si,
I will definately follow your advice.
I am going to change my 14 Arcadia bulb soon anyway as it's due and it's too yellow for my liking. I quite like the idea of a 20k bulb as my personal preference tends to be more towards the "blue" look. My only concern is whether the CV 20k 250w bulb will provide sufficient par to keep my corals thriving. I realise they will grow slower but if the colour looks better to me then that's a compromise I'm willing to make,but not at the expense of my corals wellbeing.
Again any advice gratefully welcomed,
Anthony
p.s. do you get aqueous iodine from the chemist or marine shops?
I am going to change my 14 Arcadia bulb soon anyway as it's due and it's too yellow for my liking. I quite like the idea of a 20k bulb as my personal preference tends to be more towards the "blue" look. My only concern is whether the CV 20k 250w bulb will provide sufficient par to keep my corals thriving.
It can be dangerous to assume a 20k will have a lower PAR than a lower k. If you check out Sanjay Joshi's Reef Lighting site you'll find a number of examples that contradict that. E.g. the Coralvue 250w SE 15k with PAR of 39, and the Coralvue 250w SE 20k with a PAR of 52 (both running on a Magnetek ballast).
HTH
Keith
It can be dangerous to assume a 20k will have a lower PAR than a lower k. If you check out Sanjay Joshi's Reef Lighting site you'll find a number of examples that contradict that. E.g. the Coralvue 250w SE 15k with PAR of 39, and the Coralvue 250w SE 20k with a PAR of 52 (both running on a Magnetek ballast).
HTH
Keith
Interesting,
I think I'll see if I can find out the PAR ratings for the CV 20k,CV 10k Reeflux and 12K Reeflux,all 250w,
cheers,
Anthony
I am really sorry to hear this Ant :(
All I would say that the frag (of the same colony) you gave me is doing fine. If you remember I have it very high in my tank. Although I think my lights are higher than yours and I have egg crate over the top. So this would decrease the lighting.
When I saw Tony's tank, it struck me how high he had his lights.
So another suggestion is to increase the height of your lights on a short term basis.
Dave
Another thought, is that you have been changing your alkanity recently. If you haven't already, I would stop making any further adjustments for the moment.
Dave
Hi Dave,
my alk is steady at 8.3 so not much increase and I am happy at this level:) so no change intended.
I have thought about raising the light as I'm convinced the colony is receiving a lot more PAR than it was at Tony's.
Disappointingly I cannot find any info on the PAR of the CV bulbs(the official site is rubbish in this respect) so I've decided to order a 12k Reeflux today. I'm sure the colony will be ok in the long run,at least I hope so:( as it really is my favourite(at the mo' anyway:D )
rgds,
anthony
theres this website, dont know if it gives you the info you need , but you can select the CV lamps you are thinking of and it shows the spectral plot
http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/select-one-lamp.php
heres one with some comparitive data
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=254667
Thanks for that,interesting reading:D
I'm going to plump for the CV 12k 250
rgds,
Anthony
Updat:
I've just got home and am distressed to find the coral has worsened. I'm about to cut the tips off and pray for the corals recovery:(
cheers,
The photo gives some idea of the problem,do we still thonk it's light damage ?
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j60/AntsReef/b556b397.jpg
Further update,
I have clipped most of the "bad" tips and managed to put the coral at the botttom of my 30" deep tank. I guess it's just a case of momitering it now and hoping for the best,
rgds,
Anthony
Is your temp stable? high temps will lead to bleaching events.
Are you feeding enough? especially meaty foods. I lost some Acro colonies last year due to cutting out frozen foods & only feeding flake/liquids/Cyclopeeze.
Also check your flow around the coral is not too severe as a stream can easily strip flesh from an Acro.
hth's
:)
Is your temp stable? high temps will lead to bleaching events.
Are you feeding enough? especially meaty foods. I lost some Acro colonies last year due to cutting out frozen foods & only feeding flake/liquids/Cyclopeeze.
Also check your flow around the coral is not too severe as a stream can easily strip flesh from an Acro.
hth's
:)
Hi Suk,
thanks for your input.
My temp is stable(thanks to my chiller) at around the 26.5 mark.
I feed formula 1 flakes in the morning,Formula 2 flakes in the evening and frozen food/cyclopeeze a couple of times a week....I would have thought that was ok
I have been careful to not place any coral within 18" of my tunze 6100 pumps. Not easy but I've done it.
What I don't understand is how quickly the tips have got covered in this horrible looking algae as the rest of the tank is clear.
rgds,
Anthony
simon garratt
21-07-06, 08:31
Anthony. Have the tips gone powdery and very soft ? and is it algae and not a brown jelly infection?
regards
Si.
Anthony. Have the tips gone powdery and very soft ? and is it algae and not a brown jelly infection?
regards
Si.
Hi Si,
It's definatley algae and not a jelly. The tips I cut off stayed intact and didn't crumble. In fact if they didn't have this bloody algae on them I would have set them and called them micro frags:rolleyes:
Having pruned it somewhat and placed it in the bottom of the tank assuming that's the right thing to do:confused: How long would you expect it to be before I noticed some improvement. I'm desparate here as I'm finding this all very distressing:(
rgds,
Anthony
simon garratt
21-07-06, 09:39
Its about all you can do at the moment imo. if youve moved it lower down, try to avoid moving it again as this just upsets the colony further. If youve pruned all the damaged tissue away its just case of sitting back and waiting. But Id expect the tips to have sealed over within a couple of weeks in a healthy colony.
Are the rest of your acros/milli's allright ? (plating monti's arnt paling off at all etc). ?
If your still in doubts my old trick if all else was failing was to simply resort to a series of high volume water changes (approx 25-30%) one each week untill the symptoms cleard up. usually this would be enough to turn things round. But without seeing the colony in the flesh so to speak its a difficult call.
If everything else is ok, I think basically this is just a simple case of light shock, UV damage, and tank change causing stress to the colony.
Regards and all the best with it.
Si.
Thanks Si,
Everything else seems to be fine.
I'll let you know how the milli responds,
rgds,
Anthony
If U Do Not Add Iodine Thats What I Would Start To Add Straight Away...
The Reason Is The System Over A Certain Period Has Been Depleted Of Iodine Which Is Essential For Corals To Sheild Them Selfs From The Uv Rays Etc..............
Would the guys recommending the testing and use of iodine kindly give their opinions on the following products:
Salifert - Iodine Test Kit
WMR - Lugols Plus Iodine Solution
If these are not the best to use could you suggest alternatives,
thanks,
Anthony
simon garratt
21-07-06, 16:14
Ok first things to consider.
1. there are some issues regarding sand beds and the use of iodine addatives. In real basic terms, on a sand bed based system iirc you need to halve the recommended dose becouse anerobic activity within the sand bed breaks down the non biologically available parts into biologically active Iodate so you can easily overdose the system if you go too far, leading to algae blooms at best, or total biological collapse at worst. (do some searches and you'll see what i mean. as i may have my iodates and iodides mixed up.)
2. Get a test kit. you dont want to go adding iodine without testing first that you need it. Suffice to say that even with regular water changes most systems run a little below NSW as far as iodine is concerned if running powerfull skimmers but you still need to check regardless.
The one i used was from the chemists, Dark red colour, and comes in a brown bottle with a BP number that i borrowed from Si Clark. so i cant remember wether this was water down or not
Suffice to say i was adding just 0.75ml for 200 gall every third day untill i got a reading on the test kit, of about 0.06ppm and then switched to weekly additions of 0.75ml for the next month - 6 weeks. by this stage the corals had recoverd nicely with very strong pigmentation and all was well. After this, i stopped dosing and there were no ill effects.
Sorry its a bit grey Anthony but its all i can remember at this time. I have detailed notes somewhere covering the reasons etc and method, but im buggerd if i can find them at the mo.
regards
Si.
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