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hi guys i'm after some advice and help since returning from hols last thur over weekend couple of the fish didnt look right did a big water change all parameters look ok but all fish seem to have caught wot ever it is white patches and discolouration of fins one perc clown seems quite lethargic i've stopped skimming and started using oodinex wide range marine treatment invert friendly 3 day coarse my lfs says it sounds like oodinium wot do you guys think any help appreciated carl
Guessing Brooklynella, but I would like to see a picture (with marine velvet (Amyloodinum it's not oodinium, which is the old name for piscioodinium fw velvet) the fish tend to die very rapidly Also velvet is more of a sheen starting below the dorsal fin and then spreading out rather than a white patch)
thanks wombat any idea of what i can do to get rid of this my fem perc clown died earlier so things aint looking good any idea guys carl
Brooklynella responds well to freshwater dips.
Copper for marine velvet though (and that's a problem in a reef)
Fingers crossed.
Hi,
I recently, successfully, treated a Premnas Clown for Brook and the literature I found at the time claims the FW dips are only good for the initial parasite knockdown before a course of 5 x 1 hour formaldehyde baths.
If you have a positive ID on Brook let me know and I'll post up the full details of what I did to save the Clown, you'll need to be quick though, some pics would be great if possible, Brook is a very fast killer.
Campbell
P.S I'll keep an eye on this thread but can only do so until 4.00pm today
thanks zeus cant post picsthe problem i spose we all have keeping reef tanks is the amount of rockwork we have in trying to catch a fish is hard and some times impossible without full strip down as i said last night fem clown died last night not seen male today but lights are off yellow tang is still alive saw earlier if this is brook what are the causes of it ??? my mate looked after my tank for 2 weeks while on hols without any probs i'm back a week and this starts bloody typical thanks again to guys who have tried to help it is much appreciated carl
Carl,
Brook is an external parasite, like Crypto or Amyloodinium, but unlike these it's lifecycle is a lot simplier and is carried out entirely on the fish. Attacking the gills it usually kills in 24-48 hours.
Typically you will see white patches/fading, excess mucus shedding off the fish and rapid breathing.
How are your fish now? Lights on yet?
Campbell
instantsquid
25-08-06, 10:54
...if this is brook what are the causes of it ???
It's a parasite so it must have been introduced to the tank with a new addition. Have you added anything at all lately?
- Ian
no lights on yet dont come on till later last fish to be added was a small regal tang about 6 weeks ago and yes that was the fish to die first am i best putting lights on earlier or leaving them in the dark just with natural window light till lights come on carl
must add just given 2nd dose of oodinex as advised by lfs and my friends used it in the past it looks as described by zeus carl
brook is comman on most fish at low levels i have frequently found it on healthy fish, when doing random mucus tests when training staff
it tends to bloome from stress wheter its the move or the enviroment, look to your water quality first imo, keep a nice clean water and the fish well fed, and try treatments if you have the facility to do so
Carl,
I know it's going to be tough but are you alble to get your fish out of the main tank and in to quarantine. The levels of formaldehyde you need can not be used in the main tank.
You are also going to need a few bits and pieces, here a list
Water, mix water to 25ppt about 1.020SG. This eases the fishes osmoregulation and reduces stress but you will need to change 50% every 12 to 16hours for the first 3 days in quarantine because the fish will pee a lot during this time as a result of the lower salinity.
Tank for quarantine, this is a simple affair and you only need a suitable tank of about 20 to 40 litres with a lid, heater, air pump and air stone. You don't need filtration at this point and you don't need lights at all.
Two small bath tanks of at least 10 litres each with lid, I found these at an LFS for £8 each, the highest airflow air pump you can afford (formaldehyde removes oxygen from the water so the higher the airflow the better) small 50 watt heater and air stones.
Interpet Anti-Parasite, this is a actually a pond product but works just fine. PLEASE READ the safety instructions on the side of the bottle carefully, formaldehyde can be nasty stuff.
Anti-bacterial remedy such as Myxazin.
A small syringe, from one of your test kits maybe, that you will never use again.
Don't forget plenty of air line.
Put a heater in one of the small tanks and get some aeration from your big air going. Add 4.5 litres (1gallon) of your 25ppt water in and bring it to the same temp as the QT. Add 1ml of the Interpet Anti-Parasite, measure this EXACTLY from the syringe. Leave this for for a minute or two.
Net the fish and place it gently in to the formaldehyde bath, cover the bath and set your mobile phone alarm for one hour. Watch the fish carefully for signs of distress. When the time is almost up get the 2nd small tank and add some of your 25ppt mixed water, enough so the fish fits in comfortably, this is your rinse bath. When the alarm goes off immediately net the fish in to put it in the rinse for 5 minutes, don't woory about aeration or heat, the fish won't be in there long enough. After 5 minutes net him and put him back into the QT. Disgard the entire contents of the formaldehyde bath and rinse the tank, heater, air line and air stone in fresh tap water.
Repeat this dip procedure no earlier than, and as close to 24 hours after the previous bath. To make sure that Brook is gone you need to give the fish 1 bath per day to a total 5 baths.
Also, I added Myxazin, a broad sprectrum anti bacterial remedy, to the QT to avoid any secondary infection as a result of the broken skin the Brook parasite causes as it leaves the fish.
Keep this fish in QT for a week aftert the last formaldehyse bath, until the Myxazin, or whatever anti-bacterial remedy you chose has run it's full course as directed by the manufacturer. And keep up the 50% daily water changes.
I know this is a lot but this is how I did it. Just make sure you have plenty of water mixed, at 25ppt, and ready to go.
If you have any questions, please get back to me.
Campbell
brook is comman on most fish at low levels i have frequently found it on healthy fish, when doing random mucus tests when training staff
I agree you often find low numbers of ciliates in mucus scrapes, personally I'm not convinced it's Brooklynella in these samples, more often these are just commensal organism that look similar like Uronema sp and these are just hitching a ride.
You really need a good PCR or Nomarski phase microscopy to be sure of an identification for the ciliates that are there in low numbers. As you know when a fish is infected with Brooklynella there are more ciliates than mucus in a skin scrape.
I think you need to treat urgently if you want to save these fish and Zeus plan should work just fine
I agree you often find low numbers of ciliates in mucus scrapes, personally I'm not convinced it's Brooklynella in these samples, more often these are just commensal organism that look similar like Uronema sp and these are just hitching a ride.
You really need a good PCR or Nomarski phase microscopy to be sure of an identification for the ciliates that are there in low numbers. As you know when a fish is infected with Brooklynella there are more ciliates than mucus in a skin scrape.
I think you need to treat urgently if you want to save these fish and Zeus plan should work just fine
not sure i totaly agree with that, at the end of the day
i personaly find that under a 200-300 times magnification fine for identifying it, use of the oil filters helps as well imo, and use of a good stain is handy but a good bench microscope can identify them fine imo and ime.
agree with the treatment menthod but has he actually identified the problem yet ? as it may not even be this, and you may end up stressing the fish even more to the point where what you do is having an adverse affect on the fish !!!
agree with the treatment menthod but has he actually identified the problem yet ?
it looks as described by zeus carl
Carl seems to have ID this from the info provided by us all. But without nipping out for a hobby science kit with microscope how else can he be sure?
Campbell
I guess, generically speaking, if you see 1,000s of ciliates it the skin or "brittle fins", superficial skin lesions etc. most of these symptoms will respond to formalin/fw dips etc regardless of them being Brooklynella, gyrodactylus etc.
Treating the symptoms is an important aspect of fish health, knowing the enemy helps target the treatment more accuratly
I'm lucky I work in a Marine Biology Lab with a good fish health programme and I can access a lot of the tests, but an investment in a cheap microscope (even the kiddy ones give ok images these days (those intel digital ones for the PC were great for that) and this is a big help in identifying these kinds of problems)
Jimmjaz: On a technical issue what stain and morphological markers are you using to differntial brooklynella from other ciliates? I usually go on the shape of the oral tube under DIC
Phloxine have a small very old glass tub of the powder that i came accross at some point, find it good for general staining enabling me to see the actual parasites,
i personally feel that from diagrams gerald bassleer has drawn in certain books i use alog with others that what im looking at is brook, the microscope i use is far from a kids toy but its not probably to your standards :D
A horrid Olympus BX60 and a nice Leica DLMB
i used to have a nice attachment to allow me to process the item into a photo, but i lost a part of it and only use digi cameras now :D
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