URGENT!!! Infection in mouth of Raccoon Butterfly

[triggerhappy]

Hi everyone,
I have just noticed what looks like a brown growth in the mouth of my Raccoon Butterfly. It obviously cannot eat, I am VERY worried about losing the fish, as it is impossible for it to eat anything. Any ideas as to what this may be, and a possible cure?
Please reply on site, or PM me. If someone would like to talk to me, please let me have your number and I will call you.
PLEASE HELP!!!
Andy.

[Wombat]

Probably a parasitic isopod, if so a fw, formalin or copper dip should sort it out.

But look carefully to make sure it is a parasite before you carry out the treatment.

A photograph would be helpful

[triggerhappy]

Hi,
What is "FW"? What medications are there, please let me have some brand names if poss, and let me know how I would go about treating, I have never treated a sick fish with this type of infection.
Tried taking a pic, cant get close enough to show any worthwhile details, but is does look very much like a parasite infection.
Andy.

[guydio]

I think FW is meant to be 'freshwater' dip. Placing the fish in freshwater for a few moments will get rid of any saltwater parasites as the can not osmoregulate, they 'explode' on contact with freshwater. The fish will be ok in freshwater for a dip of a few seconds.

[Wombat]

Fw = Freshwater (do a search on here on UR for how to give a fw dip).

Firstly don't panic, parasites tend to give you a reasonable amount of time before they kill an animal

A question

is your tank a fish only system or a reef system?

If fish only I would personally treat with a copper based medication

If a reef system then the best method would be a bath treatment (the method I use is outlined below)

For a bath treatment to remove an ectoparasite

1 Prepare a suitable container (a bucket's good) with the correct dose of medicine diluted in the correct aqueous medium (sea or freshwater) at the same temperature and pH as the system it has come from and a second one with clean tank water in it. If your are going to use a seawater bath then water from the tank is fine and does not need to be made up fresh.
2 catch the fish
3 Put it in the bath for the appropriate length of time
4 Place the animals in second container of fresh tank seawater to remove any residual traces of medication (very important if the fish is going back into a reef tank as if you use copper the traces of copper will harm your invertebrates)
5 return the animal to the main tank
6 throw the water from the treatment containers away
7 repeat after 24hrs if needed

As Brand names go, hard to say and I don't want to recommend any because I am non commercial (I make my own up). Your LFS should be able to tell you what bath treatments contain formalin.

If you want to use copper based mediation there are many copper based treatments out there Cuprazin, Cupramine, Copper safe etc etc. Your LFS will recommend the one they prefer (or make the biggest margin on ;) )

[Wombat]

Ithe can not osmoregulate, they 'explode' on contact with freshwater. The fish will be ok in freshwater for a dip of a few seconds.

Well strictly speaking they can osmoregulate but not over such an extreme range (never seen one explode though :D)

Most isopods osmoregulate over 35-26ppt seawater below that they loose salts to the environment and take in water they usually die of a shortage of sodium and potassium ions and tissue oedema. They rarely die immediately in the freshwater bath but the osmotic shock causes they to let go an fall off. Where they can be disposed of.

[guydio]

Well strictly speaking they can osmoregulate but not over such an extreme range (never seen one explode though :D)

Most isopods osmoregulate over 35-26ppt seawater below that they loose salts to the environment and take in water they usually die of a shortage of sodium and potassium ions and tissue oedema. They rarely die immediately in the freshwater bath but the osmotic shock causes they to let go an fall off. Where they can be disposed of.


Yeah, that's exactly what I meant!

Let's hope this does the trick and saves the poor butterfly fish?

[dan-the-man]

Moved to fish health :)

[Wombat]

Should do, let keep our fingers crossed

[triggerhappy]

Hi everyone,
Many thanks for al the comments, I have just gone and got some Cupramin copper treatment. Instructions say (if using in a tank, which I wont be, it will be the dip as suggested) 1ml to 40 litres for first day, wait 48 hours, then repeat. Should I use this strength for the dip, or less/more? Also, any idea how long to have the fish in the dip solution?
Thanks,
Andy.

[Wombat]

Use that strength for the dip, but you should leave it in as long as possible (Aerate the bucket if you need to)

remember to keep the fish dark and the bucket covered (they can jump)


I'd repeat after 24 hours rather than 48 but all being well the parasite will have died after 1 go. So there will be no need for a second bath

[triggerhappy]

Hi again,
I thought I would update everyone on the Raccoon.
I had caught the fish twice today without any bother (see later!), and examined it as closely as I could. The first time, I actually had a go at trying to remove the lump (yes, thats what it looked like...imagine the fish holding a small brown pea in its mouth!) with some small tweezers, just to see if it was something that the fish had actually got stuck there. Suffice to say, the lump seemed to actually be attached to the inside of the mouth, and to be honest I did not want to cause any further distress to the fish. Anyway, in my desperation I telephoned Kevin Davies, the technical rep from Aquamedic (A GREAT GUY!), and explained the situation to him. He actually suggested trying to "pop" the lump with a pin; I know this may seem extreme, but, as Kevin said, the fish would die if whatever it was remained there, due to the fish not being able to eat. So, I caught the fish the second time, and actually managed to pierce the lump. Some matter came out of it, but it certainly did not "pop". I then placed the fish back in the tank, and it was then that I took the advice re. treatment. Since then, I have been unable to catch the fish. I have a 200 gallon tank, and the fish got wise to me and my net! I just tried again around 20 mins ago, the fish darted into the rocks. I have just checked the fish...and NO SIGN of the lump! I am wondering even more now what it was, and if the fish managed to get shut of it, or has actually swallowed it. Whatever it was, it wasn't very nice to look at, and even worse for the fish. I hope that, if it has swallowed it, it does not have any adverse effects. Fingers crossed, as Wombat said on the thread.
I'd like everyone's views on all this, and have you any idea at all what the lump may have been?
By the way, I think it is so reassuring that people are quite prepared to help out in situations like this (THANKS IN PARTICULAR TO WOMBAT!!!), I have been in a right state all day since I saw the fish look it did, its an absolutely stunning creature, but I feel a bit better now the fish has hopefully has got rid of whatever it was.
Thanks in advance,
Andy.

[Wombat]

I'd like everyone's views on all this, and have you any idea at all what the lump may have been?


Still betting a parasitic isopod

see http://www.tolweb.org/Isopoda

that middle one's a beaut!

[triggerhappy]

...something that eats ya tongue, and then does impressions of it? Beats Mike Yarwood anyway...