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can sps be kept under a t5 54w luminer consiting of 2blue and 2white 54w tubes or is it just for softies
simon garratt
05-09-06, 22:50
Although quite possible, i wouldnt want to advise it to be honest ( i take it that the tank is around the 4-5ft size.?
Although they may well grow, im hazarding a guess that unless you have exptional water conditions, then you will only end up with brown and at best weak, colonies.:(
Personnaly, i would want to up the lighting to around double that on a 4-5ft tank.
regards
Si.:)
Check out fishmansfrags, I believe he uses T5 and no metal halides, and his corals are the mutts nutts.
It's no problem growing sps under T5's, positioning is important though. Only some Acro's would not do very well even at the top of the tank.
hth
Gav Cornwall
06-09-06, 00:10
Yea i used to grow Acro's under T5 for a short while, not really sure what the effects would be over a long time.
It's fairly easy to grow monti sp under T5.
i agree with Si.
although possable to use T5's for SPS, metal halide will give you much better growth and colour.
simon garratt
06-09-06, 19:23
Just to clarify, Im not saying that SPS wont colour or grow under t5's Im more highlighting the fact that at 4-5ft (even for a 12" wide tank), Porky has got only 54W (give or take) /sqft of surface area. a long, long, way short of recommended minimums for SPS.
personnaly I dont see the point in forking out for expensive corals if your not going to offer 'at least' the recommended conditions. far better to upgrade first for the benifit of your own pocket, and the corals welfare.
regards
Si.
Im no expert, but during my T5 days, my sps's, particularly my birds nest, grew only slightly. No colour change but not much growth as some sites predicted.
When I changed over to Metal halide the difference was amazing, it had doubled its size in less than 3 months. Also, the colour changed to a more purple than pink. Whether this colour change was good, I don't know. But growth certainly increased.
Unless you know exactly what you are doing, wih excellent water conditions and monitor your SPS carefully, I would play safe and pay for a MH unit, you don'thave to listen, but then at least you are giving yourself options. You can then choose which kind of corals you want to keep, not just be limited to softies etc...
Weigh up the pros and cons of the situation, deciede whether you really want a MH unit, are you going to keep a dominantly SPS tank or softy? If SPS then it would be wise to get a MH unit, T5 for Softies.
I wish I'd started off by getting a MH unit 1st, instead of working my way up the lighting ladder...
Sorry to jump in here but lighting is only part of what is needed to successfully keep SPS. T5's are good choice but you'll need the required 'punch' from 'em. Don't let the size of your system dictate your lighting requirements, your corals should;) Just my 2c.
As SiG has said, it's all about watts/enough power to go through the depth of water.
It's not so much about the type of light; a 70w halide would not be very good on a 2ft cube with SPS;) .
There are loads of examples of great tanks using just T5s BUT you might notice they use a lot of them.
As SiG has said, it's all about watts/enough power to go through the depth of water.
It's not so much about the type of light; a 70w halide would not be very good on a 2ft cube with SPS;) .
There are loads of examples of great tanks using just T5s BUT you might notice they use a lot of them.
If we are being correct about things is isnt anything to do with watts, watts is a measure of consumption by the unit... watt per watt halides give more PAR (generally) but then 1 watt of power going through a 10 k halide will yield more PAR than 1 watt in a 20 k system..
As SiG has said, it's all about watts/enough power to go through the depth of water.
It's not so much about the type of light; a 70w halide would not be very good on a 2ft cube with SPS;) .
There are loads of examples of great tanks using just T5s BUT you might notice they use a lot of them.
If we are being correct about things is isnt anything to do with watts, watts is a measure of consumption by the unit... watt per watt halides give more PAR (generally) but then 1 watt of power going through a 10 k halide will yield more PAR than 1 watt in a 20 k system..
If we are being correct about things is isnt anything to do with watts, watts is a measure of consumption by the unit... watt per watt halides give more PAR (generally) but then 1 watt of power going through a 10 k halide will yield more PAR than 1 watt in a 20 k system..
PAR rating is what determines whether or not the lighting is good enough, the higher the PAR the better;)
PAR rating is what determines whether or not the lighting is good enough, the higher the PAR the better;)
??? i am aware of this... i was simply pointing out that using watts as a benchmark for lighting is nonsense, that the amount of PAR from light sources will differ and that the PAR from a lightsource is dependant on the spectral composition of the light
Gav Cornwall
08-09-06, 12:33
??? i am aware of this... i was simply pointing out that using watts as a benchmark for lighting is nonsense, that the amount of PAR from light sources will differ and that the PAR from a lightsource is dependant on the spectral composition of the light
Hmmm, but Watts are a measure of energy intensity and par is a measure of photosynthetic active radiation.
They are linked and you can't say one is more important than the other because higher wave length lighting takes more wattage to produce the same PAR intensity.
So i would say Wattage is just as important as PAR.
It's quite simple if you want to use 20k bulbs up the wattage to increase the PAR.
Whats in most instances is a measure of what power the unit consumes, not the actual light it produces either wavelenght or intensity. The latter is usually dependant on ballast and reflector and bulb efficiency and distance from target.
Whats in most instances is a measure of what power the unit consumes, not the actual light it produces either wavelenght or intensity. The latter is usually dependant on ballast and reflector and bulb efficiency and distance from target.
which is what i said in the first place.... watts are a poor measure par is important, par is determined by spectral composition and based upon spectral composition 2 different light sources MAY need differing numbers of watts to acieve the same PAR value...
but to address the original question yes T5 can be used for SPS but you need truck loads... get a halide you wont regret it ...
simon garratt
08-09-06, 14:09
It's quite simple if you want to use 20k bulbs up the wattage to increase the PAR.
very sensible answer there imo. :)
..........................................
We can quibble all day if you want about Par and Watts etc and which ones politically correct. it doesnt change the fact that a 400w halide will have a damn site more punch than a 250w or a 150W at equivalant depth and distance from the water surface using the same relector and ballast combo...and unless youve got the kit to test it, then you havent got diddly squat idea of what Par your getting, even taking into account the manufacturers specs etc, becouse there are a million and one variables that will affect that light from the moment it leaves the lamp both in intensity and spectrum as it makes its way through the surface of your water, through a mix of organic dies and light refracting silt etc till finally it hits your unsuspecting coral. probably nowhere near as it started out. .
The same rule applies to two 54w T5s. regardless of spectrum they wont be as good for your corals as a bank of 8 x 54w T5's
Average surface light intensity on a coral reef at mid day with no wave action is the equivelent in man made terms of about 1360W/msq of florescent lighting or Halide in the 6.5-10K range depending on the lamp manufacturer. This then drops to around 55% of this within 1 meter. Ignoring angle of incidence caused by wave action and its ability to increase local Par intensity to more than double its surface figure, then its pretty clear to see that whichever way you look at it, Watts/Msq of suface area is as good a guide as any, taking into consideration that we are all sensible enough to be using reef compatible lighting units and one or more of the commonly available lamps specifically desighed for use on marine aquariums.
Admitedy, yes there is a hell of a lot more to lighting than watts/sqm, but all things considerd, its a pretty damn good benchmark to start out on as a begginner in SPS imo. you can fiddle with colour and Par ratings later if you like, but thats of no use to you if you dont understand the basics.
You could just as easily say 'will my acros grow under a 20K lamp' the answer would be yes, but probably not very well if it was a 150W lamp covering 1 sq/m on a 36" deep tank.
regards
Si.
Sorry Si but i disagree, somebody with 150 watts of T8 arent gonna get the same PAR as someone with a 150 watt halide it doesnt matter what the spectra is, I think that if a reefer feels ready to move into the realms of SPS, clams and nems then watts per gallon or watts per m2 simply arent adaquate it means nothing
simon garratt
08-09-06, 19:17
:D
Means a damn site more to a novice than Par, anyday of the week..probably does to 90% of retailors as well, seeing as few if any of the lamp manufacteres give par ratings on any of the lamps they sell and certainly not T5's or T8s for that matter so what are you going to base your choices on when at the counter or buying online. 'wattage' thats what, the same as 99% of hobbyists do. and thats where the Wattage/sqm principle comes in, its an easy guide that covers most of the bases for most peoples needs.
Now if we were talking/swapping advice and ideas to an experienced SPS keeper with a reasonable amount of awareness for the efficiency of a twin parobolic reflector against a diomond reflector then yes, i fully admit, id be tempted to go further indepth and get all sciency about it for the hell of it..?.
but lets not get caught up in a debate about whats scientifically the most accurate base for measurement. its like arguing inches and mm and thats not what the origional Q was about.
can sps be kept under a t5 54w luminer consiting of 2blue and 2white 54w tubes or is it just for softies
For a start can you tell what the Par output of these two combined tubes is as a 'basis' for further advice on what Par he 'needs' to atchieve, can you even say what amount of Par a couple of Frags of Seriotopora need.? no, neither can I, based on the limited info given. So try explaing to this guy without mentioning the words wattage and without referancing his tank size/depth what he should be asking for when he goes to a shop to upgrade in the hope of dabbling in a few SPS..?
regards
Si..:)
MarineManMercer
21-09-06, 20:20
Im using two 150watt 20k halides along with one marine white and one blue tube on a 5'/2'/2' tank with loads of different sps and they are doing well thou im adding a set of t5 lights this week also for a boost.Now that i have my calcium at 470,mag1380,alk 8 im seeing new growths but my bird nest frag has stayed white so far,but heard thats normal when the are small.
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