Is something eating these?

[Corsetts]

Evening all :D

I have a big problem in my tank. For the last 3 weeks or so, it's looked a bit "off colour" nothing definitive, just some of the corals looking a bit brown and not as bright.

I haven't had much time to look at the tank, or investigate further because of work but I got home early today and have found significant damage on a lot of the corals.

When I tested the water last week, the outlet on the Ca reactor had blocked slightly, and the Ca in the tank was off the scale at >500ppm.

Could this be enough to cause this damage? some of it looks almost as if something has had a chew on it?

I shall spend the day tomorrow cutting these down to healthy tissue and remounting, but as I love my acros to bits I'm keen for it not to happen again.

FWIW everything else in the tank, LPS, Montis and nem are fine.

My water params as of last week were:

No3 <1ppm
Po4 <0.03ppm - Ultiphos changed as the kit was showing a hint of colour
Ca >500ppm
dKH 9
pH 8.2
Temp 27.5 deg C
Salinity 34ppt

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2006Q1/Picture 327 (739 x 491).jpg


http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h130/course-its-reefsafe/Picture332739x491.jpg (http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h130/course-its-reefsafe/?start=#imgAnch1)

This one started at the bottom as well as in the middle :(

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h130/course-its-reefsafe/Picture331739x491.jpg (http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h130/course-its-reefsafe/?start=#imgAnch2)

This one has an apparent "bite mark" out of the middle

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h130/course-its-reefsafe/Picture329739x491.jpg (http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h130/course-its-reefsafe/?start=#imgAnch3)

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h130/course-its-reefsafe/Picture328739x491.jpg (http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h130/course-its-reefsafe/?start=#imgAnch4)

It's not affected all of the acro's but most of them seem to have it.

Sorry about the cack pictures but it's the best I could get.

Any help would be appreciated

[Dave_P]

Errrr, your calcium is way too high.

to balance 500 calcium you need an alkalinty of about 20 dKH. Are you sure you tested calcium correctly? If the reactor outlet was blocked, I would have thought you would have a problem with calcium/alkalinity dropping and dropping in balance.

What's your Magnesium?

Dave

[Corsetts]

Thanks Dave, yes I forgot to say that I shut the Ca reactor down on reading the result last week. It's always run on the high side, ~475 and I've never had problems before its just that with the rezctor outlet clogging, it was generating far more Ca than needed. I'll test tomorrow, and I hope it's come down to a more realistic level.

I guess my main concern is as to whether this is down to the Ca? in which case it's my own silly fault i'll cut the corals back and thats another painfull reefkeeping lesson learned for nest time or is there something in there having a crafty chew :confused:

What's your Magnesium?


I don't test for magnesium.

[ickypimp]

it looks like alk inbalance, they are stripping from the base upwards.. typical of alk problems

[Corsetts]

There's one stripping from the base, but mostly it seems to be starting in the middle of the corals. Sorry, the pics don't show it very well.

If it is alk imbalance then can I assume this problem will stop when the Ca drops? or could they be affected for a while afterwards?

Thanks for the input

[Gav Cornwall]

You should test for magnesium as it is important for photosynthesis.

Having high calcium is going to cause something to persipitate out of your water, possibly magnesium and more than likely carbonate, which will create flucuations in alkalinity and PH.

I would recommend doing a 20-30% water change to try and get the calcium down a bit.

[Corsetts]

Thanks for the reply, I'll get some water mixed up tomorrow and test the Ca again.

I decided not to test for Mg after talking to a local reefer who has huge rates of SPS growth and doesn't suppliment or test for anything. That's obviously fine for him as he knows his system inside out, but my testing regime was getting a bit lax, which is why I missed the rising Ca. My pH has always been at 8.2, and the dKH is fairly stable albeit at high Ca.

Can I assume that this problem is down to the elevated Ca then ?

[Red]

ure local reefer proberly does regular water changes and has a good salt mix, with high levels of magnesium, if this is the case he shudn't need too test for it :) but i still advise u do :)

[Dave_P]

I am having similar problems to you at the moment. My prize acro colony has started to strip at the base.

Over the last few weeks I have had a series of equipment failures which have caused my calcium/alkalinity levels to yoyo. This is together with a salinity drop due to a failure of computer which dumped the content of RO reservoir into the tank.

I have managed to stabilise the levels and the stripping has seemed to slow down. I am crossing my fingers that I am over the worst of it.

Over the last few months, I stopped testing for Magnesium as the general view is that it only drops slowly. I tested last week, only to find that my Mg levels had dropped by 200ppm. No doubt contributing to my situation.

I will be testing for it on a more frequent basis in the future.

Dave

[Corsetts]

Thanks for the replies eveyone :D



ure local reefer proberly does regular water changes and has a good salt mix, with high levels of magnesium, if this is the case he shudn't need too test for it :) but i still advise u do :)

er, no he doesn't ;) but his systems been running for many years and he knows it well.

When I intitially set up my tank, I did several months reading and researching and got thoroughly confused by what was needed and what wasn't (before I joined UR ;) )

Anyway, I had to establish a set of ground rules to stick to of what I wanted to accomplish and what was needed. I decided fairly early on, and by listening to the opinions of others, that I wasn't going to suppliment, and just keep things simple by running a decent Ca reactor to keep up with consumption.

Things have gone very well, although I've had nitrate problems for over a Year which stopped me adding any colourfull SPS frags, the formosa, pavona and small monti's have been growing very well. Now the nitrate has been at <3ppm for several months I've started adding some nicely coloured frags.

Hence, I don't test for Mg as I have no intention of supplimenting it untill my colonys get large and it may be needed.

I was just questioning whether an elevated Ca would cause this damage or if it was down to predation.

I will get an Mg test kit, and monitor the levels though just in case I need to act, but I've never done so before and everything was fine untill this Ca problem.

Thanks for all the input :)

[Corsetts]

if this is down to water conditions, should I still cut back to healthy tissue or will the "decay" stop when conditions improve?

[Gav Cornwall]

Decay will stop once the conditions improve but bare skeleton will normally attract algae to form and could grow up and smuther the rest of the coral.

I would wait a few weeks before removing the dead part as you don't want to cause further stress to the coral.

[Corsetts]

Decay will stop once the conditions improve but bare skeleton will normally attract algae to form and could grow up and smuther the rest of the coral.

I would wait a few weeks before removing the dead part as you don't want to cause further stress to the coral.

Will do, Thanks for that :)

[Corsetts]

Hence, I don't test for Mg as I have no intention of supplimenting it untill my colonys get large and it may be needed.


:rolleyes:


Just want to issue a quick "public apology" for being such an arse :o


I now realise the importance of Mg, apologies to those whose good advice I ignored :o


Anyways, my Mg is at 1240, I'm bringing it up to 1350 :)

[hihat]

Hi Chris,

I've just noticed a similar problem with one of my acros:( (not one of the frags you'll be pleased to know:) ).

Have yours started to return to health after sorting out the water?

My Mg is at 1250, alkalinaty 9dkh and Ca at 450

I'm going to dose some iodine, when the wife eventualy brings it home:rolleyes: (asked a friend to lend us some who works with her, so she could pick it up at work (I get the feeling it would have been quicker to walk to STM)). I will obviously be buying some as well:) .

Cheers, Jim.

[Corsetts]

Hi Jim :)

Yes I guess they have really. I have a problem with 2 of the montis which may have been down to damage by a camelback shrimp, but the "bite marks" seem to have stopped.


FWIW I think that some of the problems were caused by one of the streams slipping down. It was blowing onto a frag too hard, which was causing it to strip, it then developed a small amount of Brown jelly infection which got blown around the tank and effected any corals it landed on. Coupled with the high Ca and low Mg I guess damage was inevitable :o




There's a good write-up on the use of Iodine on Simon Garrets site "Reef Eden" which you may want to read before dosing :)



I hope that yours improves, you have some lovely specimens there. Its very frustrating when they take so long to grow and flourish yet if somethings not quite right you can lose months of work.


ATB :)

[Reef bloke]

I tell you what though Chris loads of us in Kent started to suffer SPS probs at that excat time i.e Sept last year.As you know i think i found the root of mine but i have always found it strange that quite a few reefers around teh country suffered at the same time.Conspiracy? maybe.....

[Corsetts]

I tell you what though Chris loads of us in Kent started to suffer SPS probs at that excat time i.e Sept last year.As you know i think i found the root of mine but i have always found it strange that quite a few reefers around teh country suffered at the same time.Conspiracy? maybe.....

Thanks Tony, I did wonder if it was Iodine related (ref Reef Eden) and a seasonal depletion but I'm now starting to think it was/is something in the water?

[hihat]

thanks for the reply Chris,

it looks like I'm going to have to frag it (on the advice of Jez) to save it, as the tissue has been lost around the base:( ,

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2006Q4/DSCN0038 (Medium).JPG

Well it's my first acro fragin' ahead so I'm of to search the other threads, anyone got any recomendations?

Cheers, Jim

[Corsetts]

With regards the fragging, just chop into it with sidecutters :)

It seems very harsh but it'll be fine. IMO, cut back into the living coral and remount it.

I'm sorry to see thats happened :( as per the advice given to me, whats your dKH?

[hihat]

dKH is 9

Ca 450

Mg 1250

Once cut with the side cutters, do you mount the frag straight onto or into millliput?

i.e. do you cover any of the tissue on the side of the branch with the milliput?

The thing that annoys me most is it took about 6 weeks to aclimatise it to it's hight under the 250w MH and it's been fine for about 2 months there until now:( . I take it, I will be able to place the frags where the parent coleny was:confused: ?

I haven't been able to fine any threads on acro fraging in the forums as yet.

Thanks for your help,

Jim.

[Corsetts]

Jim, I'm far from being an expert but the best thing I found IMO is to drill a hole in the rock and place the frag in there. It seems to form an encrusting base more quickly this way.

Most of the time thats not possible though, I've personally had no problems pressing the frag into milliput and covering healthy tissue anyway.

HTH :)

[Corsetts]

The thing that annoys me most is it took about 6 weeks to aclimatise it to it's hight under the 250w MH and it's been fine for about 2 months there until now:( . I take it, I will be able to place the frags where the parent coleny was:confused: ?



I don't see why not, I really don't think that its a light issue, but by the same token, not sure what caused it.

[hihat]

Ok, thanks for the help Chris.

Looks like I'm off to B&Q tommorow for some cheap side cutters (don't want to use my trainee sparky ones :) )

Cheers, Jim.