View Full Version : Toadstool advice
eskimoigloo
19-09-06, 08:56
Put a toadstool in my tank on Friday, and he hasn't been happy since I put him in. I thought it was my water, but it wasn't... I'm now suspecting he doesn't like my lighting (T5's)? He improved slightly when I moved him from mid tank to sitting on the bottom, but still isn't happy. He is only partially inflated and keeps changing colour, first he went purple, then he went pink, and now areas of him are turning white :( see picture below.
Seems nothing is happening for me at the moment!
Chris.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/eskimoigloo/DSCF2030web.jpg
give bit time m8,i am sure it will come around,once its settled
sounds like it s sheding , dont move it for aweek or so,
eskimoigloo
19-09-06, 10:15
okey dokey... I'm just used to putting corals in and them doing well straight away (must be something in the water ;) )
Chris.
nah leathers open and shut quiete alot, got loads in mine never all open at same time,lol
they shed mucus so expect to see it floating around
as above, the polyps are a good sign i is coming back to life, wouldn't be surprised if its twice that size by the weekend.
eskimoigloo
19-09-06, 10:51
at what point do I get concerned and think about changing something? Give it til Sunday? or do I need to give it a bit longer? The polyps have always been there even when it was smaller, I haven't seen it shedding anything either (yet). I had seen it in the shop for 2 weeks, so i know it's not dodgy, but it was under T8's there.
Chris
seriously, if you are happy your water params are fine i would leave it indefinately. it will be the light doing it if the polyps have stayed out throughout. it will probably come back darker, almost a reddy colour but given a week or so it will adapt to the new lighting. the only other thing would be aluminium poisoning but it really doesn't look like it from the photo.
eskimoigloo
20-09-06, 13:07
It shrunk back totally again this morning, after it had fallen over. But now it has yellow patches on it as well as being small, and only having a few polyps out.
Chris.
are you using a phosphate remover?
it wont like falling over much :D
eskimoigloo
20-09-06, 13:25
Yes, using Ultiphos from UDA, runs in both my external filters. I have now aquascape puttied him onto a rock to make him more stable.
Any more thoughts appreciated, or is it still most likely the lighting shock?
Chris.
ultiphos is fine as its an FE based absorber not alluminium.
now hes stuck down i would leave him completely alone for a few days, dont touch dont do anything. he should recover provided tank is stable, parameters are good and hes not getting knocked about by you or your tanks inhabitants.
eskimoigloo
20-09-06, 13:31
Looks like this now:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/eskimoigloo/toady.jpg
He is moving about a little bit due to the water flow, but nothing significant.
Chris.
eskimoigloo
20-09-06, 13:33
I have some Phosguard from Seachem in there as well I forgot about, plus Nitrate absorbing granules, and some Purigen.
Chris.
eskimoigloo
20-09-06, 14:18
Just learnt that that Phosguard is aluminium based... not good for softies is it? Ok, so I have aluminium in my water now, how do I get rid of it? Or will it reduce by itself?
Chris.
try putting it in an area of good flow for a bit. sometimes this can give them a new lease of life.
alluminium is bad, especially for leathers. it can bring the surface up in scabs and blisters and will eventually kill the coral.
remove the source of ally from your system.
do a couple of largish water changes inside a week and maybe up your normal ones for a little while.
run a polyfilter if you can, not sure if this removes alluminium but it can't hurt.
run carbon, phosphate free carbon. and change every 3 days for a couple of weeks. your leather 'should' come back to life, at the moment tho it is dieing.
(cheers for the pm)
Sorry for hyjacking your thread eskimoigloo, but just like to ask Scoob a quick question.... I my leathers are sulking ATM, I put it down to too much flow, but I've had my stream off for a few days now. I run rowaphos in a reactor and carbon on my return chamber in the sump could one of these be the problem. My params are fine.
if your paramters are fine, ph is nice and stable etc no ammonia, nitrite or phosphate your leather should thrive. even a fair whack of nitrate, tho not recommended, shouldn't stop a leather doing what it does.
the products you mention are perfectly reef safe and wont have an effect.
if the flow is new, i.e the stream, a leather will close up and sulk, likewise if it has been moved, handled or just that time of the month. 99 times out of 100 they bounce back to larger than their former glory.
as for your stream being off. i would turn it back on and try and aim it well away from the leather at first, then as it comes back out, bring the stream slowly (over days) back to where you require it.
as a general rule sarcophytons and sinularias etc don't like massive flow but what i feel it is, is they don't like sudden flow. if you build them up softly they get a lot stronger in their trunks and can stand up to a hell of a battering. my leathers are doing really well and i ahve 54 times turnover in my tank, was 58 in my last tank, the trick is to make them immune.
a sulking leather, lets say a toadstool should:
shrink in size down to as much as a quarter of original size
go a bluey/purpley/greyey colour
all polyps retract into the crown of the coral
stem may go wrinkly
slime will be seen coming away from the crown.
after a few days it will start to polyp up again and before long be bigger and better than before. patience is key. most sulking leathers take no more than a week but its not unheard of for one to remain closed for a couple of months, tho what the individual circumstances are i'm not sure, point is they bounce back :)
hth
eskimoigloo
20-09-06, 17:56
Thanks Scoob, gonna have to leg it and try and find some RO somewhere then!
eskimoigloo
20-09-06, 20:07
Right, put a bag of filter carbon in a filter, and done a 5g water change, gonna do another 5g in the morning, and then another 5g tomorrow night. That will be about 40% in total, does this seem reasonable?
Thanks again for the help!
Chris.
hey as many as possible, your leather will tell you when it's enough.
try to leave your newly mixed salt water for at least 12 hours before using, 24 is better. a lot of things happen to the water in that time and it's only really ready after a good few hours.
eskimoigloo
20-09-06, 20:17
I usually try to, but this 1st 5g went in fresh (everyone seems happy enough, except the toadstool obviously!), I've already mixed up the next 5g so that will be 12+ hours old when I put it in, and the same tomorrow night!
sorry to hyjack eskimoigloo but,
scoob, remember that phosphate remover that was being sold on here ages ago? how's that for affecting toadies, mines not been right for ages...
kept putting it down to different things but the polyps don't fully extend anymore.
other than that he's nice and fleshy and producing lots of babies!!
I would like to add something to the fray, I have a mostly soft leather tank and I use phosghuard phosphate remover with NO negative effects on my corals.. my leathers and in particularly my medusa are doing really well..
I would put this down to positioning or something else.. perhaps getting use to light intensoty.. I remember my first toadstool, it took a while to settle but now its doing amazingly..
hth
ps, u wanna start worrying when it goes powdery at the base, this is a sign of decay and dieing tissue.
;)
eskimoigloo
21-09-06, 10:58
Well this has been in there a week now, and only seems to be getting worse! I will do my round of water changes, and see what happens.
scoob, remember that phosphate remover that was being sold on here ages ago? how's that for affecting toadies, mines not been right for ages...
hmm do you mean ultiphos as championed by UDA?? if so this is ferrous based as well and will have no negative effect on your corals if used correctly. even then you'd know if you were getting it wrong i.e fluidising at too high a rate causing the tank to be filled with fines, discolouring the water, settling on corals and causing a nuisance.
do you have a picture c10wn?
I would like to add something to the fray, I have a mostly soft leather tank and I use phosghuard phosphate remover with NO negative effects on my corals.. my leathers and in particularly my medusa are doing really well..
i have no personal experience with phosguard but it was mentioned earlier in this thread that it contains alluminium. would you mind checking the tub you have, see if it mentions anything? alluminium poisoning is rife particularly amongst leathers, if it is ally based i would consider changing, unless you've used it constantly for 5 years or something. out of interest you say you have a medusa coral, these are sinularia, most poisoned species are sarcophyton, do you have any of these? maybe sinularias are tougher?
Well this has been in there a week now, and only seems to be getting worse! I will do my round of water changes, and see what happens.
keep with it, may take a fair few days. are you running carbon and polyfilter too?
eskimoigloo
22-09-06, 07:01
We have small polyp extensions and distinct purple patches today. Last night it even started to look good with full poylp extension, and was expanding rapidly until the current changed slightly and it fully retracted again. I guess it is hyper-sensitive at the minute, having come out of a display tank with very little movement and T8's, into mine with 20x water turnover, T5's, and then suspected aluminium poisoning thrown in also!
Will post a picture later when the white's are switched on.
Chris.
keep us updated, sounds like its all going to be fine :)
if it helps i was given one by a lfs that never opened for them-a freebee, as it did not look to be rotting i took it, a month went past nothing, lots of mucus which was being removed by the flow and a turkey baster, then one morn there it was in all its glory, still occasionally it sees its bum and sulks for a couple of days, especially after water changes or i have had my hands in the tank
eskimoigloo
22-09-06, 14:19
Looks like this today... still a long way to go though :(
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/eskimoigloo/toady2.jpg
Chris.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2006Q1/DSCF0810%20(Small).JPG
not a very clear piccy scoob but the polyps are about half the length they used to be
compared to this....
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2006Q1/Picture%20108%20(Small).jpg
hmm do you mean ultiphos as championed by UDA??
nah, there was a guy selling it cheap - no packaging, will try and find a link....
ooops, after searching the archives yes it was scoob, rather embarassing....
:D :D that dodgy andy at uda, you wanna watch him :D
that top pic is obviously under halides, is the bottom one too? and are your halides 250w?
bleedmarshall
27-09-06, 18:35
any update dude? mine is shedding atm :)
eskimoigloo
28-09-06, 07:08
My yellow tang keeps pecking at it and making it close up!!! I just don't know what to do with it at the moment??? I've tried different flows and levels in the tank but it doesn't seem to like it anywhere, it's never been more than 1/2 open. Could do with someone local coming around and having a look at the tank, seeing if I'm doing something blatantly wrong! But saying that my pulsing xenia, and Zoas are doing great???
Chris.
eskimoigloo
30-09-06, 09:33
it flopped over yesterday and isn't looking well at all. Have taken a pic of the stalk, as that looks like where the problem could be sourced - almost looks like either bits are falling off or something is eating it:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/eskimoigloo/DSCF2090.jpg
Any ideas?
Chris.
bleedmarshall
30-09-06, 12:47
woaw!!! that looks knackered.......... if it was me id remove it ........
but wait till someone like scoob makes comment on it ;)
Scott
eskimoigloo
30-09-06, 13:02
Am contemplating cutting the head off and gluing onto a piece of rock and discarding the stalk. If I look at it closely it looks like there were 2 heads on the stalk, and one was cut off in the shop (maybe) looks like an infection or rot eminating from the cut.
eskimoigloo
30-09-06, 13:10
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/eskimoigloo/DSCF2090-1.jpg
Am contemplating cutting the head off and gluing onto a piece of rock and discarding the stalk. If I look at it closely it looks like there were 2 heads on the stalk, and one was cut off in the shop (maybe) looks like an infection or rot eminating from the cut.
Yes, I'd give that a try - when I've fragged ts they've always grown from a cut stalk and the remains of the stalk will even grow a new head (though maybe not in your case!).:(
eskimoigloo
30-09-06, 15:30
chickened out on the cut, took it back to the shop and he is gonna give it a go in his tanks. He said my Phosphates were too high at 0.015ppm??? I thought that was good! Ringing him on Tuesday to get an update!
Chris.
bleedmarshall
30-09-06, 20:40
hey ........:(:(:( awch well such as good.........
double check the salanity of the water and make sure its stable! i noticed leathers dont like flucuations in salanity :(
whts it at atm?
Scott
eskimoigloo
30-09-06, 20:52
my LFS said it was phosphates... so massive clean up under way. I have set my skimmer producing "wet" foam, I have hoovered my gravel and rocks, and I am slowly (on a week by week basis) gonna remove the biological media and sponges from my external filter (I have 20kgs of LR in 40 gals so should be ok), and just leave ultiphos, carbon, and filter wool in there. Sg at 1.025, and rises to 26 before I do a top up.
Chris.
bleedmarshall
30-09-06, 21:07
do you have problems with cyano ??
wht u using to mesure salanity?
Scott
eskimoigloo
01-10-06, 15:59
I just use a floating arm one, and verify it every now and again with a brewing hydrometer, always ok. Have had a bit of cyano recently in the "dead" areas of the gravel bed where the flow was low. Skimmer adjustment seems to have been the key i think, it's now ripping loads more scum out!
eskimoigloo
04-10-06, 07:07
Alas, the toadstool it died yesterday (in LFS)! Am working on a phosphate reduction program at the minute, as that is all we could put it down to!
eskimoigloo
08-10-06, 10:12
Hey Bleedmarshall... had my Sg tested by a refractometer on Friday... 1.032!!! my floating hydrometer and my swing arm hydrometer have both been reading too low! Problem solved! Thanks
Chris.
i got lots of leathers and toadstools im useing t5 too i moveed one of mine the other day and now it wont open but i no it wiil soon as it feels safe. softys do sulk alot u get used to it in the end
bleedmarshall
08-10-06, 21:23
good news dude! lol
I went to a guys house the other week and he was having no luck with softies, toadstools in particular so i take "the case" ;) ;)
Tested the water (saliferts) MG CA NO3 PO4 etc..... all came back with the expected responce i was like eh :confused: :confused:
But the fish were fine ..........
Then i took out the refracometer just incase. I though "awk ill try it but i doubt thats the preblem" and boom 1.019 :(
I was like ahh!!! lol I with i never bothered wasting a go of each of my test kits
But hey ........... i hope hez good now :) no erd from him
good to see your on the mend!! Get yourself a refractometer and take care in calabrating it asap!! lol
Scott
eskimoigloo
09-10-06, 07:18
Aye, just need to splash out the 30 quid now... DOH! wish I had done that in the 1st place instead of paying a tenner for a swing arm one!
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