Acro problem.

[P.A.D]

Hi Guys,

I am fairly new to SPS corals, and so I started with a couple of monti's to see how I got on.

All seemed fine so I decided to take the plunge and try an acropora. Incidently I have a 150W halide on an 18'' deep tank. I popped along to one of my LFS and saw this really nice specimen in their display tank. I couldn't see any sign of there being any polyps showing so I asked the chap about it.

He said that it had only just been put in the tank and that was the reason why no polyps were showing, but said it would be ok as it was fresh stock. So I bought it for the sum of £45.

This is a pic of it when I first put it in my tank. I placed it about 4'' from the water surface. The halide is 12'' above the surface.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e142/phillipdodd2/REEF342.jpg

I acclimatised for several hours, but to this day I have never seen any polyps showing. After about a fortnight it looked like this.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e142/phillipdodd2/REEF402.jpg

I was told by a friend that it was probably dead when I bought it so I took the matter up with the LFS who asked me to return it. Great I thought they are going to replace it. Unfortunately, they said that yes it was dead and that there was nothing that could be done. 'Its just one of those things with acros' was the response. So I am now £45 out of pocket with nothing to show for it.

Do you guys think it was dead when I got it and do you feel I should be entitled to a refund.

cheers.

[kitenski]

It's really hard to tell tbh.

What are your water params, including kh, calcium, mg, phosphate, ph etc, and how much flow do you have?

Regards,

Greg

[maestro]

Hello, bad sorry to sound harsh but no i dont think it was dead when you bought it, you can clearly see it has flesh and colouration, and unforunately no I dont think you should be entitled to a refund.

Ive had acros do the same, from now on I only buy from stm or frags, personally I find frags are hardier so you recomened you try some of them next time.

[SPS Hoover]

No coral was not dead when introduced in to tank, giving us your tank parameters will help with answer why it died

What is in first pic behind coral? Why is not in second pic?

[fire999]

Introducing an acro 4" from the surface is maybe too close. Next time introduce it lower down and aclimatize it slowly.
Also check your water and make sure its it perfect condition.
How mature is the tank ?

[Quigs]

Looks like that Green Monti is quite close to it! You sure thats the same coral or was the first picture taken in the LFS?

[bristlebasher]

Think it is still the same coral - things have just been moved around inside the tank?

[DannyW]

I had this problem in the past and it was down to phosphate, have you checked your reading?

[kitenski]

Introducing an acro 4" from the surface is maybe too close. Next time introduce it lower down and aclimatize it slowly.
Also check your water and make sure its it perfect condition.
How mature is the tank ?

Too close to what?? He has 150 MHs so IMHO that would be fine.

[maestro]

But if its a TMC coral then although ive never visited im told that they dont keep their corals them under much light at all, the fixtures are many feet above the tanks.

[cdixon]

Without the water parameters it is hard to tell.

A couple of thoughts:-

Is that a heater behind the acro in the first pic ? If so bad idea to have it placed so close.

Secondly The coral look like either a Aqua-culture or Mari-culture specimen. In which case UNLIKE tank frags you should have not put them within 4" of the surface even with 150w lights. Can't comment on Aqua culture but i know that Mari-culture is grown in the wild at a depth of about 7M, so even 150W lighting at such a shallow depth would effect them.

Also a lot o debate about acclimatising corals some people do others feel that transferring them straight in to the tank is a better ploy as due to shipping their is often a lot of toxins built up in the bag. I can't comment as over the years i have had both success and failure with both methods.

IMO if you are new to Acro then i would only touch frags as these are often from specimens that have been in aquariums for years and are more suited to conditions and lighting within tanks. A lot of the sponsors have very good frags in lovely colours.

Can you tell us the following:-

Temp
PH
KH (ALK)
CAL
Nitrate
Nitrite
Phosphate

How big your tank is ?
And do things like Temp and PH change much over a 24 hour period ?
Water flow ? (Tunze Streams, Closed Loops )?

[P.A.D]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the replies, I wasn't expecting so many.

Stats are as follows; tank 40x16x18 inches

Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm
Phos 0ppm
Calcium 420
KH 7dKH

I use Aquarium Pharmaceutical test kits so don't know how accurate they are, but these are the results I get with them.

Regards the lighting, I didn't think there was any need to acclimatise it to my 150w as it was under a 250w halide in the shop. BTW I was told that it was an aquacultured specimen. The shop imports them directly themselves.

Yes it is the same coral in both pics, the black bar in the first pic is the spraybar from the external filter. Things have been moved about mainly to make abit of room. Incidently the tank is now a year old so I think it must be mature enough now for some acros.
As to flow I currently have a 900 maixijet with hydor rotating nozzle attached and a seio 1100 as well as the filter spraybar.

If you guys think that it was alive when I got it then thats fair enough, I shall just have to accept that something went wrong once it was in my system.

Cheers for your help.

[Stevielad]

I would say that your ALK is on the low side - I would be angling for 10dKH or above. But having said that - whether that would cause it to die off quite so quickly - I don't know - perhaps it could with the additional stress of change in tanks. Will let one of the SPS guru's comment further!

Are you running at "full strength" salinity? 35ppt? If you are running lower than this, then upping it will effectively increase dKH/Calc.

I would agree with other comments to try frags first - they do grow very quickly under the right conditions, are hardier and if they do die off you are less out of pocket. Either blag one off another reefkeeper in your area or buy online (e.g. reefworks, fishman's frags) - there are some really cracking frags to be had online.

[kitenski]

just relooking at your 2nd picture, there still appears to be colour low down on the colony, so maybe it can be saved.

I'd also recommend getting your dkh over 8 at a minimum.

How close was the spray bar to the coral? It looks like the tips which the spray bar output "hit" seem to be the ones that are dying off?

Regards,

Greg

[cdixon]

The fact that the coral was under 250 MH at the shop is not that important as didn't the shop keeper say it was new in ? How long has he had it ?

Also pharmaceutical test kits are not always that good IMO... Salifert and Deltec for Phosphate are the best.

How long was the spray bar against it ? These things and power heads can give sprays of water that is to direct and the corals don't like that. They prefer a more surge effect that is given by streams and correctly positioned closed loops. I have had corals damaged from water flow that is to directed.....

IMO that coral is dead but was fine in the first picture.

Cheers,

Chris

[P.A.D]

Sorry forgot to mention I keep the SG at 1.024

The spraybar was only about 3 inches away from the coral but the flow was directed at the surface and not directly at the coral inself.

As for how long the LFS had had it, I believe they put them out on sale as soon as they collect them from the airport. I am not aware of them having any quarantine facilities on site. As they direct import they get some really nice stock in, so there usually is abit of a rush as to who can get the decent peices first.

I will try and get the KH up abit. Thanks for the advice. I think I will also just be buying frags from now on, as £45 is too much to lose.

Thanks again.

[cdixon]

Once you get your parameters sorted out. Try Reefworks (sponsor) for frags... i have used them many times and not lost a coral yet.....

Also you can put them staght under the lights (final position) as they are tank raised....

[P.A.D]

Once you get your parameters sorted out. Try Reefworks (sponsor) for frags... i have used them many times and not lost a coral yet.....

Also you can put them staght under the lights (final position) as they are tank raised....

Cheers, I have looked at their webbie and it looks very impressive, so will probably try them when I've saved up some more dosh.

[steve@ cambridge coral tech]

hi mate, soz if i mssed it, whats your mag+ph, thanks:)

[P.A.D]

hi mate, soz if i mssed it, whats your mag+ph, thanks:)

pH is 8.2, but I haven't tested for magnesium as I can't find any test kits round here in any of the LFS. Will keep looking tho.

[Dave_P]

pH is 8.2, but I haven't tested for magnesium as I can't find any test kits round here in any of the LFS. Will keep looking tho.
Try Coralculture as they are normally cheaper than the LFS, but you have to pay postage. So it normally evens itself out.

http://www.coralculture.co.uk/shop/index.php?cPath=33_58

Salifert is normally recomended by people, except for phosphates which is D&D .

Dave

[Dave_P]

I have bought quite a few of the mari-cultured (I think they are) corals which seem to be hitting the LFSs at the moment.

I have left all of them on the bottom for 1-2 weeks, then placed them in final position. All have survived without problems.

Is your temperature stable, i.e. between night and day?

Dave

[steve@ cambridge coral tech]

with the greatest of respect mate, if your gonna try your hand at sps you really ought to know where you are with your mag level as its very important for them, chances are if you've never tested it, am guessing if your not testing for it your not adding it so is prob low,as most salt mixes are normally deficient at some point:(