View Full Version : Sick Fish
My poor Damsel is sick.
He has been in my newly cycled tank for 5 days and was well until yesterday when he styarted swimming strangely. He hardly uses his tail to swim and seems to float around in the current.
I've switched off the powerheads to allow him to rest.
On inspection today I noticed a distinct black patch over his right eye and mouth as per the photo.
http://www.fizzwizz.net/ebay/fish.jpg
NH4 = 0
NO2 = 0
NO3 = 5
PO4 = 0
pH = 8.2
SG = 1.024
Any ideas?
Thanks ... Fizz
Shaun, I would not switch off the powerheads, it will reduce the oxegen content in the water. Sorry I cannot hepl with your problem and Damsels are usually very hardy. How is the clown?
Hi David
Sudued and hanging around in one corner, though I have been told this is normal.
Best wishes ... Shaun
Shaun, I would not switch off the powerheads, it will reduce the oxegen content in the water
The skimmer is still running, should I still switch on the other powerheads?
how old is the tank setup?
how old is the tank setup?
4/5 weeks
you tank has not had a chance to settle down, who said add the fish so soon, you will find they have been subjected to high nitrate, nitrite and ammonia.
Most people set there tanks up and then let them settle down for around 8 weeks in most cases.
Did you do water tests ect before adding the fish?
How big is your tank?
What are you using for filtration?
Hi
I was told to add fish when N02 & NH4 were 0
I test the water everyday and there had been no rise in any of these parameters.
Filtration is by 20 KG of live rock, a bed of aragonite sand with 10KG of live sand, and a schuran media filter containing bioballs (until we have more rock)
As I said, params have been 0 since the tank finished cycling.
The tank is 400L
Best wishes ... Fizz
you should see a rise in them first then they will slowly drop, you do need to use something to seed the tank, some people buy from there lfs a marine seed product others add a fish but the knock on effect is what you have found, you fish is now in the tank process of being seeded and is probably very unwell and in most cases will not recover but some do so fingers crossed, what did you lfs give as advice?
Hi Arrows
The tank has completed cycling. Drop off from the live rock added at day one caused a spike in NH4, which was converted to NO2 by proliferating bacteria in my rock and sand. A second NO2 spike was then seen which dropped as other bacteria proliferated and converted this to NO3.
When the NO2 and NH4 were recorded at 0 the fish were added, after which no further spikes were observed meaning the natural filtration is coping with the biological load.
What you are saying doesn't make any sense to me. Can you please clarify?
Best wishes ... Fizz
what you have found is true, you have found that the live rock has to some point seeded the tank, you have then added a fish that is now starting the cycle over again, the bacteria doubles and this usually covers any new fish but when it is the first this usually takes some time, have you checked those readings again i bet you will see a rise on one of the three stages.
Hi again,
There has been no rise in NO2 or NH4 since adding the fish. I have also done a 10% water change.
What about the black patch on my fish?
you hae done everything correctly mate don't worry. if you aren't seeing a rise in ammonia or nitrite and your nitrates are stable your tank is mature enough to cope with fish. it is true it is still maturing and during this process things happen we can neither measure or control but this will be happening over the next couple of years. whatever it is a tank goes through in this time, only the things you are testing for have an affect on fish.
right, now to get to the problem. do you have a better picture of the dark areas. are they just blackened scales, a black blemish over an area or a raised or open blackish cut?
scoob, what do you think, any chance these could be burns?
fizwizz, Have you got your heater in the tank?
slow down arrows mate. lets find out a bit more about it first. if we're going to go down the burns :eek: route then there's a whole host of other things it wont be first :D
Hi Scoob
I've put the lights back and and am now waiting for him to come out for a photo. It'd definitely not a cut, it looks like a discoloration of scales and seems to not be localised to a particular tissue type as it extends across the side of the mouth.
I doubt it's a burn. The heater does not get hot enough under water.
Best wishes ... Fizz
has he fed at al today? when you say he isn't swimming with his tail, is he still using his pectoral fins ok? apart from the dark areas is his colour vibrant throughout the rest of his body? eyes clear?
fiz,
You say the heater does not get hot enough, for you or the fish, is it in the main tank?
scoob,
not sure if you meant me but i have seen friends tnaks who have had fish that has been burnt by a heater and it has made the side of the fish look black, the owner of the tank saw it happen, just trying to cover all aspects as i am sure you would agree.:)
yeah? no fair's fair, we do need to think of every angle.
The rest of his body is vibrant in color, but his eye is also black.
He hasn't fed properly, but I think he has a go.
http://www.fizzwizz.net/ebay/fish2.jpg
I forgot to say, his pectoral fins are the only ones that seem to work properly
with a bit of luck wombat may be able to comment further onthe dark patch. is it dark or does it look like scales have been removed to expose are skin. tough to say from that pic but it doesn't look good, if what i can see is what is there.
I forgot to say, his pectoral fins are the only ones that seem to work properly
sounds about right, imo the tail is more for steering, starting in a burst of speed. pectoral fins are for cruising and swimming about.
I definately think there are no missing scales
If it were me and its not I would add an airstone and maybe consider lowering sg down to around 1.21 which should give him more energy to recover. Less salt to shed from his body, he maybe dehydrated
http://www.fizzwizz.net/ebay/fish3.jpg
fizz,
sorry to keep asking but is the heather in the tank, is there a chance that the fish has stuck its nose in near the heater and got burnt, this does look like my mates fish who did this, stck his heater near some rock only to find a fish wanted to get past the rock and heater, got burnt went black then got an infection:confused:
hmm, possible head and lateral line erosion? is the black mark both sides? does it appear down his lateral line at all. good pic by the way.
The black is only on one side.
I can place my hand on my heater and it feels only luke warm due to the cooling effect of the water. It is also high in the tank.
Also, I have only noticed the black today, but he started to swim strangely yesterday. He spends most of his time vertical.
Hi
just seen this thread,
That looks like a bacterial lesion
Are the scales raised at all in the dark area? I think the skin has gone necrotic (dead and hence dark)
It's hard to get a good look, however he does look symmetrical with no obvious oedema.
Would this be an opportunistic infection from commensal bacteria due to some rubbing or trauma, or is it likely there is an unfavourable organism at work?
Hard to say without cultures
I think horse29UK means an SG of 1.021 (1.21 is 10x the normal SG for reef fish and is a bit excessive)
Am I right in assuming he is unlikely to recover from this?
What course of action do you recommend?
Thanks again ... Fizz
No, it's wait and see time.
If it is feeding there is a good chance of recovery.
Re treatment you could get antibotics from the vet (but that won't be an economic option) but without cultures that will be hit or miss too.
If it gets worst then you may have to consider euthanasia (either by concussion or an overdose of anaesthetic such as clove oil, available from the chemists, which IMHO are the only humane ways to do it)
Ok, well thanks for all the help. I'll continue to watch him closely and keep my fingers crossed.
Many Many thanks for the help and advice ... Fizz
:) fizz e may well make a full recovery and the marks may stay but then you can say you have you own individual fish.
Good luck.
:) fizz e may well make a full recovery and the marks may stay but then you can say you have you own individual fish.
LOL, I'll be happy if he survives regardless. Thanks for your help ... Fizz
How is the damsel? did it survive
He's still hanging in there.
To be honest, and I'm no expert, but he doesn't appear to be in any distress.
He swims in a strange manner (like he's limping sideways) but when I add food he darts after it in a haphazard way. Though I am concerned about how much he is successfully eating.
He swims like a shopping trolley with a dicky wheel :D
We are becoming quite fond of him, he's quite the soldier.
Best wishes ... Shaun
I've now noticed a white lump at the border of the blackened area. does this help identify what is wrong with him? Please see pic.
http://www.fizzwizz.net/ebay/fish22.jpg
Thanks Shaun.
Chances are that is new tissue growing in to the necrotic area.
Hi Wombat, thanks for replying.
He's a tough old boot and is still hanging in there. My main worry is I haven't seen him feed and I have been placing his food near his mouth with a syringe. Can he go long without feeding? He looks in good spirits otherwise.
Thanks ... Shaun
always tough if they stop feeding (they can last sometime but if they aren't feeding at all it's a slow downward spiral). He may be taking pods etc from the LR
What are you feeding him?
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