View Full Version : North Sea Nano (a rockpool)
Time for something a little different ..........
Following on from the DIY tide maker thread, this is what it is for .....
I'm bored, i have no money, i cba to re-aquascape my tank again, what else costs £0? Ans = Free stuff! After a chin wag with me old mucker zpyder he gave me a gentle nudge away from a seahorse tank and towards a temperate rockpool tank, and once the fuse was lit ......
My aim is to recreate a North Sea rockpool biotope, with an aim of emulating the mid to lower shoreline.
Spec.
Volume
Main tank = 30lts
Tide maker = 13lts
Total system capacity = 43lts
Lighting
Aquaone PL power compact (11W?)
Filtration
North Sea Live Rock (this one is a tester)
Modded Seaclone skimmer
One might say its the Berlin method, i like to say its the Geordie method ;)
More to come
Water movement
DIY Tide maker(TM) ;)
1200lt/hr ph (for the moment, more to come)
Stock (Haven't a clue really i'm peeing into the wind on this one).
Stock i collected intentionally includes:-
- Common hermit crabs (Pagurus bernhardus)
- Beadlet anemones (Actinia equina)
- The leg of a common starfish (Asteria rubens) - that is wandering around the tank as i type!
- Shore crab (Carcinus maenas)
- Common mussels (Mytilus edulis)
- Periwinkles (Littorina littorea)
- Limpets (Patella sp.)
- Dog whelks (Nucella lapillus)
- Flat periwinkle (Littorina obtusata)
And more that i can't ID right now, including lots of macro algae and kelp!
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1178.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1195.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1168.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1171.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1175.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1179.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1182.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1180.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1183.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1192.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1196.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1176.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1201.jpg
Water goes:-
Nano tank >> Eheim return pump (at the moment, will be changed to an external in the future) >> DIY Tide Maker >> Modded seaclone skimmer (gravity fed) >> Nano tank. This is temporary, i have plans for a wee upgrade once i know the project is worth doing,
Tide cycle is:-
-6 hours high tide
- 10 mins drain time
- 6 hours low tide
- 10 mins fill time
Some issues and answers:-
- The North sea is cold, should i use a chiller? - i was pointed in the direction of some info that shows the UK shore species have a wide tolerance of temperature (8degreesC - 28 degreesC in some cases) and as this is a budget project, a chiller is a non-starter.
- I have no clue about what is in the tank, what about aggression, size issues etc? - if it all goes pearshaped mother nature will welcome the stock back with open arms :)
- You are only using 11W of PC light? - The seas around the British Isles are often murky and light levels are less than tropical seas, plus with it being a rockpool venture, no corals ;)
- What is in the tank atm? North sea rock, North sea stock, North sea water, North sea sand.
- The aquascaping is crap. Yep i agree, will alter with time, just getting a 'feel' for how to approach this one atm, aquascaping will come in time.
This is pretty much a "suck it and sea" project atm, costing a grand total of £0.
Comments/questions welcome.
Reef bloke
30-12-06, 01:59
Very nice mate,a break from the norm! I reckon you could get away with a cooling fan on a habistat or modify a beer chiller for a budget chiller unit.
Great stuff Tony
Brilliant! this is the sort of tank i kept when i was a kid i didnt have a skimmer tho it was the early 80's.
I remember hassling my parents to take me to the beach to collect water changes, salt was very expensive in those days.
But the livestock was free!
nice one claude
As regards to temp, i know the rock pools where i used to collect livestock from would have topped the 70's in the summer so i guess they can tollerate temp swings
Very nice mate,a break from the norm! I reckon you could get away with a cooling fan on a habistat or modify a beer chiller for a budget chiller unit.
Great stuff Tony
Cheers, i will look into cooling devices when summer raises its ugly head, but room temps should be fine atm.
Some guides as to temp tolerances are:-
Common Hermit 9oC - 19oC
Beadlet anemones 9oC - 28oC
Blenny/Shanny 5oC - 24oC
There is enough room to be getting on with atm, plus i am working towards using as little equipment as poss (less heat) and keeping as much out of the tank as poss (again less heat).
Brilliant! this is the sort of tank i kept when i was a kid i didnt have a skimmer tho it was the early 80's.
I remember hassling my parents to take me to the beach to collect water changes, salt was very expensive in those days.
But the livestock was free!
nice one claude
Cheers, its really wierd, i keep expecting an old boot to float past :D
On one side of me i have my 2ft tropical reef cube, on the other i have a small slice of the North Easts finest, .... crabs and all ...:cool:
I'm awestruck at how quick everything has taken to the new environment, banacles are filtering, mussels have reattached themselves, anemones are out (one of the larger ones has spawned), the crabs are bundling around, snails etc are all over the glass.
Great idea and a fascinating project. Please keep us posted on this one! Exactly how does your tidal simulator work, or is that classified information? ;)
BTW any chance of changing that yellow pipe?
Great idea and a fascinating project. Please keep us posted on this one! Exactly how does your tidal simulator work, or is that classified information? ;)
BTW any chance of changing that yellow pipe?
Yeah i will post details soon :) the yellow pipe will be gone, as will the powerhead as soon as i can ensure that this is a 'doable' project and replaced with a closed loop and an external return pump.
Hi Claude,
Cracking project and a really good idea. Wondered what your tidal tank thing was all about.
Guess you'll have to be quite careful (and am sure you are) re mixing equipment etc between the tropical and temperate tanks, particularly if planning to reintroduce some of the local sealife back into the sea.
Watching with interest!
John
claude, fantastic project dude. all fishkeepers love freebies, i'm suprised no-one else has done this. must be well wicked to go down to the beach "shopping"!!!
Superb :D
I've been tempted to do this sooooo many times now, I'm sure it won't be too long now :D
watching with interest :)
Great idea, love the cost aspect - £0!!!
However, if you want the real North Sea feel about it don't forget the condoms and sanitary towels from Seaton Carew beach.
Have been wanting to do something like this for ages , might have giving the spur i need!. it looks really good. As the warmer months of may and june come you will find alot more unusual things to put in it. I live right on the coast, last year at marsden we found lots of young ballen wrasse 1 to 2 inches,colour`s were amazing, a friend kept half adozen in a tank without any problems ,also last year there was an explosion of pipe fish in the North Sea these would be a great addition to study. Just few ideas hope it all goes well keep us updated.
Regards Gary
I'll be mainly keeping shore dwelling fish if/when i do, blennies etc ones that don't mind being exposed to a bit of air (and are easy to collect).
Collection was from up the Northumberland coast (near Beadnell etc) on a cold winters day it was the most isolated place, great for wandering around looking like an idiot with plastic jerry cans and a net! :D
As for the shopping aspect ...... i felt like i was in an episode of supermarket sweep!
know what your saying Claude,all the small wrasse and young pipe fish i found last year were from rock pools and obtained with a net.Like you say best part of this type of tank is getting your wellies on and getting out in the fresh air to see what you can find.
Oh to live near the coast :D
Some nice looking critters in there :)
You might want to try a shanny Lipophrys pholis those guys can tolerate air exposure for quite a bit. Found one above the intertidal zone before in a rockpool barely big enough for him to fit in! However I'd imagine unless you had an area in the intertidal bit which forms a small shallow pool at low tide, most rock pool dwelling fish would prefer to stay in the sublittoral area of the tank. The fish only venture up the beach to prey on species that stay up there (barnacles etc)
I think Coling's onto a winner too. I think a challenge should be to try and get your hermits to move into various bits of litter you might find on the beach!
The limpet will be interesting as well, as I'm sure they're meant to have a range of about a metre, whether the small tank would effect it!
Why a range of about 1m? What do they do? I feel like a fish o-ut of water on this project, i know so little about the UK shoreline it is embarrassing :o
The tank turns from an aquarium to a vivarium, so there is always water available for those that want to be submerged and can move to do so.
chriskirby101
30-12-06, 16:26
Fantastic project m8...
You using sythetic sea water or collecting it? I collect green sea algea from a local beech to feed tangs with, and have often found a few tiny blennys in the algea bags..
Chris
Fantastic project m8...
You using sythetic sea water or collecting it? I collect green sea algea from a local beech to feed tangs with, and have often found a few tiny blennys in the algea bags..
Chris
Its all 100% Northumberland coast. I collected the water at low tide actually from the deeper rockpools. I've been using North Sea NSW for a while now in my reef tank (although it comes from much further out that rockpools for that purpose).
Why a range of about 1m? What do they do? I feel like a fish o-ut of water on this project, i know so little about the UK shoreline it is embarrassing :o
The tank turns from an aquarium to a vivarium, so there is always water available for those that want to be submerged and can move to do so.
Just research on the limpets, has shown they usually have a grazing range of around about 1 metre or so during high tide or something. They aren't sessile in one spot, but will slowly graze a patch of rock. I remember something else about them usually returning to the same spot each tide too or something. This is just what I think I remember being told by my Marine Bio lecturer who likes his limpets!
Feeding wise I think they graze of species of algae like the fine hair-like Enteromorpha or something. I can send you the powerpoint lecture slides if you want ;)
I think that's right - and they do return to exactly the same spot in exactly the same position and orientation as their shells grow to the contours of the piece of rock they are on hence why they are incredibly hard to prise off.
John
You're not my Marine Bio lecturer are you? you sound just a little too enthusiastic about limpets... :D
Great project! :)
Will follow this one, just a shame i dont live closer to the coast. I could have made one from my nano after the new tank is set up.
If this works out are you going to use a larger tank or stick with the one you have and just change the pump etc..
Keep the updates coming.
Jay
You're not my Marine Bio lecturer are you? you sound just a little too enthusiastic about limpets... :D
What's there not to be enthusiastic about - they're great!! Really interesting and fascinating to watch for days at a time.
No, I guess you're right - sorry! :rolleyes: ;)
John
PS: Now whelks, they're completely different!
Actually, they are :D I really dunno why but when we had our field trip to weymouth and our lecturer pointed out the dogwhelks to us, I thought they were pretty cool. Winkles and perwinkles, nah, boring (and hard to tell apart imo) but whelks, now you're talking...
...yeah, I think everyone else on my course hates me as I'm the only one who is actively interested in this part of the course!
Great looking tank, something different :cool: I would have thought that if you restrict you collecting to shallow rock pools. The creatures that you catch would be very tolerent of temperature changes and you wouldn't need a chiller.
Dave
Its nice to hear so many positive comments, i was certain somone was going to shoot me down early!
Lots of new life spotted, none of which i know the names of :O seen a few crabs running around that i didn't know i had, and last night one of the nennys spawned!
Tides out at the moment ;) again ignore the equipment, its a temp measure while i see how things are going.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1214.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1215.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1217.jpg
This is the nenny that spawned (looks a little different to the usual beadlets, but i think it is a colour morph)
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1223.jpg
and here are the babies!
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1208.jpg
A erm ..... snail?
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1221.jpg
A starfish leg that wanders about the tank.
nice little project, im not sure if everythings been covered in previous posts, but here's the take from a marine ecology student:
temp wise most UK marine species are found all the way down into the med, and beyond so will tolerate quite a wide range of temps. saying that, even though they are found all the way down south, the ones you ahve collected have not come from there, so won't be adapted/too happy about living at 28degrees, lol. i would recommend a year round temp of about 8-12. as you say a chiller is costly and as this is meant to be a cheap project is a no starter.
stockwise, presently you may find a slight problem mainly with the shore crab, these will eat pretty much everything at will, so you may find any fish, shrimps start to go missing. the other species you will more than likely have issues with are dog whelks, these guys live on barnacles and other molluscs boring though the shell. so you may find these all disappear over time.
new species you may want to consider would be ones from lower down the shore, try going critter hunting on a low springs, when you should get some more shallow sub litteral species exposed (basically species that aren't normally in the intertidal). so you will find pipefish, blennys, rockling, common gobys, and inverts like blue rayed limpets, seahares etc. also a safer bet with the crabs are the hairy crabs, they look a bit like porcellain/anemone crabs.
good luck with the porject, its looking good so far
Fasinating - makes it even more interesting for the week end walks by the sea! Watching with interest. May even do this on my still empty nano.
Whats the legal position with collecting from our shores?
Thanks
Simon
umm well the legal issue is slightly odd, im not totally clear on it but because its between high tide and low water its ok.
obviously common sense should used, you only need a few things for a tank etc.
but be aware of marine nature reserves, often common species are rarer at these locations due to collection the pressures applied by people terrorising crabs whilst on holiday.
Trev, thanks for the info, i had since read up on the dogwhelk and common crab, and i will be returning them back the coast next time i go.
I have been told that the bit between high tide and low tide is "common", the sea belongs to the Queen and the dry land to whoever owns it by deed.
The seashore code as published in an information booklet about exploring the Northumberland and Berwickshire shore states:
- Take away photos not live specimens
- Always replace overturned rocks and seaweed
- Avoid removing seaweed from rocks
- Observe wildlife in its natural position, seaweeds and attached animals such as limpets and anemones will not survive if detatched
- Make sure a shell is empty before taking it home
- Avoid tramping on plants and animals
- Take rubbish home etc
- Look out for your own safety
Now i get the feeling the above is to stop numpties collecting rocks and pretty flowers for their gardens, i have found a much more feasible costal code at a cold water marine hobbyists resource website that states:
1. Cause as little disturbance as possible.
Always return rocks to the exact position and the same
way up as they were found.
2. Collection of live animals. shellfish etc., should be kept to
a minimum.
I abide by the second set of rules.
I've always found the thing about repplacing rocks in the exact same position as found. whenever I'velifted up rocks, everything moves about underneath, and if I put it back exactly how it is, they get squished! :D
yeah the turning rocks back over bit is a little odd, most of the mobile creatures simply leg it as soon as you turn the rocks back over. but some of the creatures that prefer the shade like sponges can't. however as meantioned there is the risk of them being squished. but then if the rock is easily movable by you then its likely to be picked up and chucked across the beach come next storm. its how the whole community works.
Can anyone ID the orange nenny? He's a big boy.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1279.jpg
My first tentative guess would be Urticina sp.?
I'm just looking at my two british marine life ID books and they're the closest I can find.
urticina eques (http://www.scotsac.com/gallery/lochgoil/photos/photo11.html)
Urticina felina (http://www.seawater.no/fauna/Nesledyr/fjaeresjorose.htm)
Or quite possibly a brown colour morph Beadlet Anemone, Actinia equina (http://home.wxs.nl/~ronoffer/duiken/html/biologie/zeeland/paardeanemoon.htm) has it retracted when exposed to air? The picture from earlier on does look quite similar to the beadlet picture on the linked page?
Love this project - toyed with a similar idea myself but the usual Canvey Island fauna of crabs and used condoms mean stocking options are limited...
Looks like you are ok for livestock sources but if you are looking for other native UK stock you might check out http://www.aqualogistix.co.uk/index.php
Keith
Claude the only law to worry about while collecting marine life is the taking of undersize Edible Crab and Lobster ,these are protected by the fisheries and cannot be taken even for fishing bait,on the other hand cannot see you wanting to collect these as they tend to bury and trash everything in the tank.
Gary
for a budget chill how about a small fridge i.e those small cand fridges and drill 2 holes in the side place as much hose in it as possible or less depending on the amount of cooling needed cost about £20-30
The Tangman
06-01-07, 13:08
Hi Claude,
Amazing little project, I like how you have managed to create a tidal effect.
Try if you can to go out collecting after there have been some storms at sea and collect some water then too, when I was studying Marine Bio we would always find some really exciting critters that had been washed of course especially within the plackton obviously you may not be able to see what is there at the time but in time who knows what will grow!!
One thing I would make sure is that you either do regular changes with NSW or add cultured phyton rotifers etc as you would not believe the amount of food that filter feeders consume such as M. edulis.
Keep up the project well done!!
Can we have an update please Pauly?
I can't see any pics - bandwidth exceeded :(
Yeah i exceeded my bandwidth - should be back tomorrow.
I hope so, I was looking forward to the piccies
I hope so, I was looking forward to the piccies
Me too :)
Jay
Mandarin Dragonet
03-02-07, 20:57
not trying to burst you bubble, but don't dog whelks eat mussels?
They eat winkles, I know that much :D
Nice one - worth the wait to see the pics!
:D
Updates please mate! :D Very interesting
Paul
any chance of you giving us a talk at the next NE Reefers meet about your North Sea Nano?
I think most of the members would like to hear and see pics of what you have done so far.
Only a thought ,up to you
lee
sure, should last about 30secs.
Went to coast, grabbed some stuff, threw it in tank ;)
sure, should last about 30secs.
Went to coast, grabbed some stuff, threw it in tank ;)
and then didnt give any UR members any updates!:p :D Only kidding mate how are things with it any changes?
Cheers
Jay:)
I will update soon i promise!
Everything is fine with it, it takes almost zero maintainance, just a bit of topping up now and then!
The build - its a bit backwards i know!
Having built a DIY surge device (http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=182092)for £20 (that works ace and has stood the test of time), the next challenge was to build a DIY tide simulator for less :D
The tank will cycle through 2 states:
Tide in (held in this state for 6 hours)
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1159big.jpg
Tide out (held in this state for 6 hours)
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1152big.jpg
Here is the cycle:-
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/timelapse.jpg
As i intended to replicate the middle to lower shore, the tank is only 1/2 drained, obviously the higher up the tide line you want to replicate, the more water you drain out of the tank.
The only electrical device the tide generator needs is a powerhead on a timer. Total cost of the whole thing ........ £0 taking into consideration it was DIy'd from 'bits' i had lying around.
After an extensive search i couldn't find any DIY tide makers, all seemed to rely heavily on float switches and electronics (not my bag baby). So after a bit of pondering i realised the answer is very simple and set about creating a prototype out of a cereal box.
The prototype worked well, however, being only 1/3 of the tank (30lts) volume it didn't drain enough (only 5lts) to create the desired impact on the tank. So i needed to find a bigger box.
Christmas day came and i opened the following present from my dad, i failed to register that it was a paper shredder and stared at the box that read "13lts" (almost 1/2 of the intended tank volume) ......... i have no need to shred documents and it would be a shame to waste a perfectly good present ;)
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1111.jpg
With the box out, i set about mod'ing it to turn it into my tide device
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1117.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1118.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1119.jpg
In and out bulkheads
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1120.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1122.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1125.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1126.jpg
Durso style standpipe with drilled Tidehole(TM) ;)
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/Paulmalsop/Fish%20Tanks/NENano/DSCF1927.jpg
He likes mussels :(
impressive modding there, claude!!
emensley jelous! wish i had the time for a south west sea nano
Mandarin Dragonet
28-02-07, 20:14
Come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn bandwidth!
its gone again for this month
will be back 3rd march :(
Mandarin Dragonet
16-03-07, 20:14
Yay, it's back! Looks good! Awh, that crab is adorable. :(
Is your north sea tank still running?????????any pictures?????????
Really tempted to do one of these,do you need any sort of license?
u legend! thats such a good idea!
I feel a new project coming on!!! Saw some awesome anemones in Wales last weekend, green with pink tips
I know this is an old thread, but are there any updates? Is this project over or is the tank still up and running? Would love to see more pics and get more info on this fantastic little piece of ocean.
Whoa, blast from the past! I unfortunately couldn't keep it going as i had to dedicate my time elsewhere, it worked on a small scale and the beadlets and crabs survived until i returned them to the sea, however, on a larger scale with more equipment a chiller would be beneficial i feel.
The tide maker i built worked great tho :)
Whoa, blast from the past! I unfortunately couldn't keep it going as i had to dedicate my time elsewhere, it worked on a small scale and the beadlets and crabs survived until i returned them to the sea, however, on a larger scale with more equipment a chiller would be beneficial i feel.
The tide maker i built worked great tho :)
aw thats a shame cause it looked really good - staying 50 feet from the sea it has given me ideas tho.... No No i must resist lol :)
Whoa, blast from the past! I unfortunately couldn't keep it going as i had to dedicate my time elsewhere, it worked on a small scale and the beadlets and crabs survived until i returned them to the sea, however, on a larger scale with more equipment a chiller would be beneficial i feel.
The tide maker i built worked great tho :)
That tide maker was very impressive indeed! Glad all the critters got back to the ocean alright. Shame you had to shut it down but, it was certainly a good experiment and an interesting tank while it lasted. It has given me some ideas that's for sure....:thanks:
Hmmmm. Have a 30g lying around. another new prog on the cards. Love the idea of shoping for free.
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