Newbi Interest

[matc]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of specifying/setting up my first tank and waiting for some quotes back from some sponsors.

I've done loads of reading and (think) I understand many of the different methods involved in keeping marines. Then i've come accross the zeo threads tonight!

Looking at all of the options, the zeo system appears complex, but seems to be getting good results.

What are your views about a first marine tank using zeo's?

Mat

[trythechi]

Hi Mat

I think you'd best wait until you'v settled into the basics of keeping a marine tank. ZEOvit is more for people who have developed the skills to keep SPS alive and well ( the advanced end of the marine hobby), but want to take it that extra bit further.

Prodibio on the other hand is excellent for beginners and will help you maintain an alage free tank if your on top of the hundamental husbandary tasks. It isnt a magic bullet, so you need you learn to maintain salinity PH etc and conduct water changes with 0tds ro/di water - but if all of that is in order, biodigest and biotpim will make for a great start to your tank.

Simon

[matc]

Thanks Simon,

Guessed that was probably the case hence the post. I'll keep an eye on whats going on in here with interest though looks theres some new boundaries being pushed...

[jez]

Hi Si
Just as a passing thought do you not think that most of these Zeo based systems work pretty well for beginners as you can pretty much nail them down to a daily routine. In all the systems there are some very good basics that if Jo blogs walked into his LFS may well never get passed on like realising from day one that a reef aquarium is supposed to be low nutrient, and so you need to manage phosphates nitrates etc. The number of aquariums I have seen even in this day and age that have never done anything about phosphates and nitrates and have endless problems and readings off the scale. Simply because nobody told them to.

As much as a probiotic system is simple so is a lith system, its just a few more steps and actions. What it really lacks is a comprehensive set-up guide, both the Zeo guide and FM notes need a lot more work IMHO.

Just a thought

Jez

[trythechi]

Hi Jez

I think that depends on the beginer - I'm trying to remeber how I felt starting out in marines, managing salinity and ca/dkh - seemed a challenge at the time - but that was a long time ago.....

Come to think of it - I do remember struggling with the nitrogens big time and not knowing much about PO4 - so perhaps your right. For SPS though, we wouldnt be recomending going straight into that without feeling our way with softees first would we? ;) Redfield Ratio and CA/Mg/DKH/PH both together......?

Cheers

Si

[matc]

My initial thoughts were to obtain the best possible water quality from the start, rather than to fill a tank with more complex species.

One thing that caught my interest is what appears to be the 'simple' complexity of using Zeo...yes there is the initial learning curve of salinity, ph, po4, no3, no2 etc - but if zeo methodology aids in their control (my basic understanding) then why not start using a system from the start. I understand the basic cycle but then controlling ca/dkh isn't something I have looked at yet (or claim to begin to understand)...therefore...

I tend to agree with both of your views, and am happy to take the advice to start with the basics (as above). I think the point that Jez makes is a good one in that there does not appear to be a to be a beginners basic set up guide - for obvious reason.

From a novices point of view, a zeo system appears a little more simplistic than I expect the reality is. Dose x, Dose y ...correct me if I'm wrong but the complexity from a beginners point of view would be the 'tweaking' of specific doses.

The other point that seemed to come from this part of the forum, and it may be my misunderstanding, was that a zeo system is simpler in its physical set up - less complex in the sump (skimmer and a reactor?). In addition to what appears to be a system for excellent water quality, the equipment set up appears simple for someone without even a tank at this stage ;)

I like the idea of a low nutrient system, and the Prodibio system may be easier just to use for the start. In addition, I think perhaps the level of assistance for a beginner would likely be very high from you chaps.

Thanks for your informed views. I will follow with interest how you get on.

Cheers

Mat

[davethefish]

hi mat,:)
i'm in a similar boat, as i have just set up a new tank using FM ultralith, though i have kept a reef for many years before. i think as long as you are prepared to take the time and trouble to dose correctly, and monitor your params, why not start off as you mean to go on?

if your ultimate goal is to keep sps the it seems logical to start out using this system rather than a DSB and then have to strip it out in 12 months to go zeovit? if not to keep sps, then i think this system still provides the best solution to a low nutrient and better quality environment.

[trythechi]

Hi Mat

I dont want to hold you back friend:) Thinking about it more, if your invest from the start it'll save you the costs of a PO4 rector and media.

You'l just need the Basic 4 from either ZEOvit or Fauna Marin range.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the alage succession after you put the LR.

Keep us posted with pic pls.

Cheers

Simon

[matc]

Si,

Thanks for your comments again :) I don't see it as holding me back, rather an honest basic question of "is this something a newbie could cope with in all of your experiences".

I obviously need to do a lot more reading before I decide if this is the right route for me, as for the last 3 months I've don't nothing but concentrate on the Berlin method. I'm not even sure of whats required for zeo set up as from what I've read most of the set ups are conversions(?). I think its time to explore the links in other threads in this section to grasp a better understanding of the basics before properly considering it :).

Dave, I'll be watching your thread with interest...more pics of your set up and an update on how your getting on/how you finding it would be helpful please!!!

I'll keep you posted on my final decision...but I feel the need to get wet soon!

[jez]

Hi
I would not be put off by not knowing or understanding certain marine concepts like alkalinity and calcium systems. I would set myself simple target values to aim for all are easily achieved with the tools available. So a little testing and a bit of adjusting can bring everything in line.

My only cavest in starting out with live rock would be to make sure I get phosphate remover in for the first couple of weeks as you will find a lot of phoshate will be added by the rocks due to continued decay and some absorption from rock bins. This will quickly pass but in the context of helping keep levels under control I would use Ultra power phos or Rowa phos in a filter bag to get started with.

As for the rest of it I would jumps straight in with a low nutrient method from day one as you have more than enough knowledge and support in our little group here Simon and I are but a pm away.

regards Jez

[matc]

Thanks Jez, the support from you all is most welcome.

I've given it more thought since my post this morning, and I think the challenge is very tempting. Someone has to be first, and I guess if I keep an open account of my experiences, it may help others to decide either way.

I'll scan the forum for reading material and already have a number of questions etc, but will save them for a later post.

Although its a little early for initial designs, I do like to have something in mind to picture operations while reading so ...Just to set my mind straight, is this all the equipment that I'm looking at for a start up zeo system - skimmer, zeo reactor, limited volume of LR (does it need to be live? - theoretically) and flow, plus the four basic zeo's plus phosphate remover for the first few weeks.

My initial thoughts are a 30" cube with a couple of closed loops for flow. Potentially I guess the zeo reactor could be on a low flow closed loop(?) with the skimmer in a sump, or even fed from a drum (to increase system volume)rather than the need for a traditional sump? Excuse the naivety! :)

Cheers