View Full Version : Fauna Marin UltraLith System - My Blog
instantsquid
12-03-07, 21:40
I thought I'd start a "blog" of how I get on with FM's UltraLith system.
First, a bit of background:
My tank is a 84"x24"x24" with a 48"x18"x18" sump (water volume after displacement is 800 litres).
Filtration consists of an unknown quantity of live rock, 6" DSB (18"x18" area), Chaeto above DSB, and Deltec AP850.
I also run two Phosban reactors.
Current parameters:
Nitrate: 10
Phosphate: 0.03
Calcium: 420
Alkalinity: 8
Magnesium 1350
The tank was set up around 12 months ago. I didn't start to have any SPS "success" until the end of last year, but I feel I'm making some progress with them now - they're growing, but they're not showing the kinds of colours I would like to see - I suspect down to the "high" nutrient levels.
I keep a mixture of SPS and LPS with a few mushrooms - all my soft corals apart from a large Sarcophyton have gone to new homes.
I initially started dosing UltraMin S and UltraBak about two months ago. Given my water volume of 800 litres, the recommended doses are 2.4ml - 4.0ml and 1.6ml - 4.0ml respectively. I started off with very small doses of 0.2ml each, and increased this by 0.2ml per week - making sure to keep an eye open for anything untoward.
I am now dosing 1.2ml of UltraMin S and UltraBak, so still under the minimum dose for my tank volume. So far, nitrate and phosphate levels have not changed at all. I have not noticed any sign of the "white film", however I have seen assorted "nuisance algaes" spring up where before there was nothing (a few Valonia bubbles, some Halimeda, and tiny patches of Bryopsis here and there).
The next step is to actually bring the UltraLith in - I am awaiting delivery of my zeolite reactor, so will also be dosing UltraBio once that is online.
So that's where I am at present - not a lot to report just yet, but I will keep this thread updated with progress and any observations as time goes on.
Hi
Ian sounds like its going to be one to watch :-)
Just looking through the specs you have posted I notice you have a DSB running. One of the things we have noticed with SPS_Hoovers system is that getting the nutrient real low can be hampered by trapped nutrients in the bed.
Speaking with claude at Fauna on the matter he spoke about what he considers a potential issue well at least something that will slow the process. It goes like this.
In developing a large bacterial system phosphate will become the limiting factor as we are feeding a range of foods for bacteria. Over its life a DSB will be full of bacteria but also full of trapped nutrients. So by feeding the bacteria with min and bak and having a mass of nutrient rich substrate simply causes a large amount of bacteria to grow in the DSB utilising most of the min and the bak and the trapped phosphate. The result is your system will take a lot longer to get nutrient low as all the accumulated nutrients have to be cleared up.
Hope that makes sense. I would see how it goes but if you are slow to see improvements as you increase the dosing and add the stones I would consider removing or isolating depending on design.
Just a few thoughts
Jez
instantsquid
16-03-07, 11:53
Hi Jez,
Thanks for the feedback - I've been following the other threads on macro-algaes and DSB's with ULNS. My sump design is a copy (rip-off!) of Si G's first Reef-Eden design, in that the DSB can be isolated by turning a couple of valves. I've learnt the hard way that nothing good ever happens quickly, so I will leave it online for the time being and reconsider my options once I've been running the full UltraLith system for a little while.
Got my UltraLith reactor online today - still waiting for the UltraBio to arrive though :(
Water volume (as above) is 800 litres. FM recommend 500g per 400 litres to start with, so I've added 1kg of UltraLith to my reactor.
I will do a set of tests shortly and post up the results, so I can see what sort of impact on the readings these changes make over time.
I also must add some photos to this thread of my dull-looking SPS!
Great write up Ian, watching with interest.
instantsquid
17-03-07, 00:48
Water parameters today:
Nitrate: 10
Phosphate: 0.03
Calcium: 420
Alkalinity: 8
Magnesium 1320
instantsquid
22-03-07, 09:20
Started dosing UltraBio yesterday - 16 drops for 800 litres.
Also gave the UltraLith a "shake" - can't be sure if it was just wishful thinking or not at this early stage, but to my mind it did look like the corals (particularly the LPS) went into "feeding mode".
I'll update water parameters at the weekend.
instantsquid
26-03-07, 22:25
More info!!!!!!:D
Okay, well parameters on Sunday were as follows:
Nitrate: 5(ish)
Phosphate: 0.03
Calcium: 400
Alkalinity: 7.7
Magnesium 1290
So as a seperate issue I need to sort out my calcium reactor as it's really not keeping up with the tank demand. But that's beside the point. Nutrient levels are, I think, just starting to drop. As I've said above, I have been approaching this whole ULNS with the utmost of caution, increasing the Bak and Min S dose stupidly slowly. I'm now adding 1.6 ml of each per day, along with 16 drops of UltraBio. I'm going to continue on this regime for a little while now, and see what happens.
The corals are starting to change colour though! :D I wasn't sure if it was just wishful thinking on my part, but my wife mentioned it this evening, without being prompted. So that's certainly encouraging.
Hi
Ian was that you who picked up my fave coral the other week
Jez
instantsquid
27-03-07, 13:20
Hi
Ian was that you who picked up my fave coral the other week
Jez
Yes, I'm sorry to say it was me... :o
You mean this one?
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2006Q4/CoralsIJ.jpg
Well, if you will go and leave it in the shop! :D
Yes that would be the one it sat in the shop for so long and was being unloved but at least its gone to a good home once it starts getting branches I will want a frag :-)
Jez
liquidlogic
27-03-07, 19:21
whts the coral called? superb!
wud u recomend the lith stuff then ? im thinking of giving it ago
instantsquid
27-03-07, 22:21
I think it's a form of Echinopora - that's my best guess at the moment.
It's still early days for me, with the full UltraLith system - I was dosing UltraBak and UltraMin S for a couple of months, before adding the UltraLith and UltraBio. My advice would be to read as much as you can about zeolites and their use in marine aquarium, and then make your decision. The zeovit forum (www.zeovit.com (http://www.zeovit.com)) is a great place to start, and the Fauna Marin website (www.faunamarin.de (http://www.faunamarin.de)) covers their particular system.
Hi
I thought it was more likely
Cyphastrea Ocellina
Although I have not seen one before
regards Jez
instantsquid
28-03-07, 10:53
Good call, Jez - just had a quick Google and that does look very similar. I'll have a closer look this evening.
I'm even more pleased with it now! :D
instantsquid
31-03-07, 23:37
Okay, checked parameters today:
Calcium: 400
Magnesium: 1320
Dkh: 7.7
Nitrate: 5
Phosphate: 0.03
I'm pleased to see the nitrate level falling, but I'm not convinced this is down to the Bak/Bio/Lith just yet. I've lost a number of Chromises over the last few months - no bodies were ever found... The fact that I was seeing a nitrate level of 10ppm makes me wonder if this was a "spike" caused by the Chromises either decomposing or being eaten somewhere in the tank. It's still a mystery as to what happened to them, but I haven't lost one for a while now and the nitrate has come down to 5ppm. I'm still only dosing the minimum of UltraBak for my tank volume so I think I need to increase this slightly to help with the nutrient export. I'm dosing the correct amount of UltraBio daily in order to get the UltraLith up and running.
Comments gratefully received.
Instantsquid,
From my own personal observations, I think you may be right about the nitrate spike. I have had my ultarlith reactor online for two weeks now and dosing minimum of the products, have not seen any significant drop in nitrates to warrant saying the reactor is working. The only confirmed observation that I have so far is that I have never seen such polyp extension as I am seeing now. My corals, albeit nitrates still at 12.5ppm on a 400 litre system are colouring up a bit too 'I think', I am saying this catiously as I may be imagining it as I am willing this set-up to work!
I shall be doing my water tests this afternoon as I normally do a full spectrum testing on a Sunday and will let you know if anything has significantly changed.
HTH
Chris
Well, all my parameters are stable and can confirm that at nearly two weeks, my nitrates have shown no sign of falling, not yet anyway. This could be because I have a lot of live rock, DSB in sump and a large canister filter with media.
Will continue on my current path and observe your chemistry with interest.
Chris
well i too have now put a reactor online runing 3hrs on 3 off, its the larger Grotec model. im not running at full Lithe yet as thought it was wise to build it up, i would say im using about 2ltrs and will increase upto 4ltrs in the next few weeks would be interested in your views on this.
ive been dosing the minium Bak and Min-s for about 3 weeks now along with a 50g water change weekly on a 350g system. my N03 was 120+ and now is between 60-80 could be down to the FM products or could be the water changes although in the past ive done bigger water changes with no effect on the N03.
other than the above i only have live rock and a large skimmer.
ive noticed my shrooms seem to be growing and spreading quite fast since dosing begain and have no nuisance alge at all, i could be looking through rose coloured spectacles though..lol
as you say im willing this sytem to be upto all the hype, expensive experiment if its not..
Harry
Harry,
Sounds like you are doing well with this. My nitrates have been a constant 12.5 for weeks now and have seen no sign of them falling yet. I did try the 3 on 3 off method but when off, because my set-up is modified remotely from sump, the water level was just covering the 0.5 lire of Ultralith so decided to keep it on permanent. Have you seen tank of the month by trychethi? He uses a low nutrient system. Tank looks fab!
Guess we are getting to the point of impatience which could be dangerous as we miss things in our aquaria as the chemistry changes.
Watch our space as it were!
Chris
Chris
think ive had a bigger N03 drop as i have a much higher level than you, bit like being on a diet the first bit falls off fast ..lol
i have no sps in my system (yet) but a few softies and some Euphylua's (sp) a huge Malu shrooms etc, all seem to be doing well apart from a leather but thats been looking suspect for a few months, its been in the tank for nearly ten years so think it maybe coming to the end now.
i do have some large fish that take a lot of food hence the N03 issues, and in the past have done 100g water changes in an effort to drop the Nitrate, but this never moved it at all, so somthing has changed since using this system..
H
Sorry to jump back a page, but is that a Duncan as well in the picture? Looks really interesting? Thanks Chris
instantsquid
02-04-07, 10:07
Sorry to jump back a page, but is that a Duncan as well in the picture? Looks really interesting? Thanks Chris
Yup - Duncanopsammia axifuga. And it's growing like mad! Started off with 6 polyps - now got at least double that.
I have a couple of sps corals that had been struggling to revover as they were damaged or something had had a go at them. Anyway, since i have been monitoring my aquarium so closely since I went down the FM ULNS route, these corals have started to come into their own. The tissue appears to be recovering, or at least they look generally more healthy and hopefully improve their ability to recover. Although nitrates have not fallen yet, albeit they are not that high, I am quietly impressed so far with the general health of my aquarium. I know it is still fairly early days so please do not jump on this message.
Instantsquid, any developments your nick of the woods??
Chris
instantsquid
02-04-07, 22:06
Not much to report since Saturday :p
I've seen the biggest improvement in all my corals over the last six months, simply because it finally sunk in just how important the stability of the key parameters in my tank were. Temperature, salinity and pH were all stable anyway - these are the things you learn how to maintain pretty early on. But calcium, alkalinity and magnesium levels used to go all over the place - sometimes way high and sometimes stupidly low.
I've now got to a point where they are stable, week in and week out. The actual values are nothing special, but the fact that my SPS corals are finally starting to grow means that things are on the right track.
My reason for starting with the FM UltraLith system was basically to go to the "next level". Rather than simply having my corals exist, I really want them to thrive - and I believe that what Fauna Marin have produced will help me achieve that.
After the weekend's readings, I have increased my UltraBak and UltraMin S daily dose to 2.0ml per day. From what I have read, I think I need to keep increasing, still slowly (say 0.2ml a week) until nitrate and phosphate levels really drop OR I see a white film on rocks and/or glass. At this point I can back off slightly and take stock of the situation.
I gave the Lith a shake in the reactor this evening - the LPS corals went crazy! I can only assume the SPS are reacting in a similarly enthusiastic manner, but unfortunately it was after my main lights had gone off!
Top blog and really useful for peeps like me preparing to go over, thanks for sharing Ian.
Top blog and really useful for peeps like me preparing to go over, thanks for sharing Ian.
I'll second that. :thanks:
The Wizard.
03-04-07, 11:19
Great read all the way through explained in layman terms :thumbsup: :worship:
Ian (its Sim ) :laugh: :laugh: when you started with half a mil of baks and mins at the beginning did you have a outbreak of cyano ? A few people i know have all said because of how rich the product is, and until the baks kicks in completely cyano outbreaks are quite common :( :whistling:
watching your progress with keen eyes :D and good luck ;) :eheheh: :eheheh: :thanks:
instantsquid
03-04-07, 11:35
Hi Sim,
I haven't seen any cyano outbreaks, but as mentioned earlier, there do seem to be a few more "nuisance" algaes around in the tank. Whether it's just coincidence, or just that I'm paying more attention to the details, I can't be sure. To the casual observer, it's not even visible - but I've noticed tiny little patches of Bryopsis, one or two Valonia, and a new growth of Halimeda. It'll be interesting to see if these start to die back once the nutrient levels really begin to drop.
The Wizard.
03-04-07, 12:20
Cheers Ian, one other question sorry if its been asked before is your skimmer pulling out more gunk now. :ohyea: :laugh: :laugh:
instantsquid
03-04-07, 12:24
Not sure if there's more gunk - it depends how "wet" the skimmer is running. However, it's very noticeably darker and smellier! I cleaned the skimmer last night, and the skimmate was almost black. And the smell....? :sick:
Cheers Ian, one other question sorry if its been asked before is your skimmer pulling out more gunk now. :ohyea: :laugh: :laugh:
mine is 100% i had it marked up on the side how many days it took to get to a certain level and this is smashing that number.
The Wizard.
03-04-07, 12:37
:applause: :thumbsup: Thanks a lot Ian & Will ;)
instantsquid
06-04-07, 11:04
Weekly water test results:
Calcium: 400
Dkh: 7.7
Magnesium: 1290
Nitrate: 5
Phosphate: 0.03
Nothing much to report. I'm still running phosphate remover (replaced it today as it happens) - I WILL get the "all clear" from that D&D phosphate test one of these days!
Weekly water test results:
Calcium: 400
Dkh: 7.7
Magnesium: 1290
Nitrate: 5
Phosphate: 0.03
Nothing much to report. I'm still running phosphate remover (replaced it today as it happens) - I WILL get the "all clear" from that D&D phosphate test one of these days!
i got a new test kit on route i will bring round for you to try, much more accurate imo ;)
instantsquid
06-04-07, 14:28
i got a new test kit on route i will bring round for you to try, much more accurate imo ;)
Oooh... do tell! I thought the Deltec jobbie was considered "the standard" :D Whatcha got then?
Oooh... do tell! I thought the Deltec jobbie was considered "the standard" :D Whatcha got then?
top secret stuff gonna bring it to the meet if its here by then, but let nick decide if he thinks his waters good enough :whistling:
instantsquid
06-04-07, 16:51
Nothing much to report.
Okay, I admit it - I was talking cobblers! Putting aside the water parameters, the change in my corals is incredible. The polyp extension on my SPS corals is like nothing I've seen before - I have a Seriatopora hystrix that looks almost like a softy, the polyps completely obscure the skeleton. The same goes for the Pocilloporas. My Acros seem to be responding well too. Really chuffed! :dance:
Too much talk not enough comparison pics ;)
Okay, I admit it - I was talking cobblers! Putting aside the water parameters, the change in my corals is incredible. The polyp extension on my SPS corals is like nothing I've seen before - I have a Seriatopora hystrix that looks almost like a softy, the polyps completely obscure the skeleton. The same goes for the Pocilloporas. My Acros seem to be responding well too. Really chuffed! :dance:
Any b/a pics pls Ian?:thanks:
Are we going to get an update this week Instantsquid?
Looking forward to it. Will let you know if there are any changes in my parameters this weekend too!
Chris
instantsquid
16-04-07, 12:15
Not much to report this week.
Nitrate still around 5ppm, phosphate still at 0.03. Dosing 2.4ml daily of Bak and Min S. I wonder if I still need to increase the Bak dosage further.
Another week or so, and I'll be increasing the UltraLith up to the recommended amount.
I have this evening increased to a full 1 litre of ultralith. It has been four weeks now. I have also increased my dosages. from 0.8ml to 1ml of Bak, and from 1.0ml to 1.5ml of MinS.
Also changed nitrate test kit to Salifert and this shows a reading of 5ppm, the same as you and to be honest, in the previous four weeks, have not seen any significant reduction in nitrates and hopefully this may now take effect with the addition of the final amout of Ultralith.
Corals still look much better for being on this fM stuff and am looking forward to seeing more changes further down the road as it were. So far, I am quite impressed.
Chris
Hi
Certainly increasing the BAK level will help fine tune denitrification also cycling of reactor. One caveat and something we have been seeing reported here lately if the stocking density is low in the aquarium then keeping the min-s on a lower dose will help prevent cyno due to waste.
After all that if the nitrates have not budged its time to get on the probiotics Prodibio or Ultra bio will help seed some good denitryfiers or try Ultra life water conditioner, this is a really good product and hardly used in the UK where as European aquarists frequently use snow or absorbency products. Ultra life will absorb nitrogenous waste phosphates etc it will also clear the water as it bind fine particles it clouds the tank and the waste is then skimmed out.
regards Jez
remember that if your tank has been running at 5ppm or a fixed level for a long time the nitrate will be in the rocks the substrate and will leah back out, it will drop its just gonna take time im afraid
instantsquid
17-04-07, 11:13
Cheers Jez and Will,
I am dosing UltraBio - 16 drops daily (volume is 800 litres). I think my Min S dose is about right at the moment - the tank isn't heavily, heavily stocked (yet) so I'm dosing Min S on the low side. I'll continue to increase Bak dosage by 0.2 ml per week (currently 2.4 ml daily for 800 litres). I'm not unduly worried as even though the test kits might not show a massive improvement, I do believe things are going in the right direction - the corals are definitely looking happier and healthier than before.
instantsquid
22-04-07, 14:36
Hmmmm..... still absolutely no change in nitrate and phosphate levels (5ppm and 0.03ppm respectively).
I've added the second litre of UltraLith this weekend.
I'm now upping the UltraBak dose to 2.6ml per day so I'm over the 3ml per 1000 litre mark.
I forgot to mention it a while back, but I'm having to clean the glass much more regularly than I used to.
Still no pics before and now? I'm running with ultra-bak and min (only a week and 1/2 into it) but have nothing to report yet :(
I forgot to mention it a while back, but I'm having to clean the glass much more regularly than I used to.
Ian have a search in the ULNS forum as i am sure you should be seeing the opposite.
Instantsquid,
I had a similar problem and posted on here. Have subsequently reduced my dosing of UltraMinS. This may have been the cause but also, I have increased the Baks.
I think this might help.
Chris
instantsquid
22-04-07, 16:55
Okay, so I need to reduce my Min S dose?
I refer to my 'should I increase dosing' thread - received a reply from Darren at Reef-Encounters.
Instantsquid, i tested my parameters yesterday and nitrates are gradually falling. it looked like just 2.5 using a salifert test kit. it must be nearly 7 weeks now. I reduced my Min S dose but increased the Bak. Things seem to be coming good now. Corals which were not quite healthy are now showing definite signs of recovery.
Really impressive stuff this FM regime. Just waiting for the chaeto to start showing signs of deterioration then I can be assured of success.
Hope your system is now showing signs of nitrate reduction.
Chris
instantsquid
03-05-07, 21:53
It's now been nearly two weeks since reducing the Min S dose - I've cut it back to 1.2ml per day. There has definitely been a reduction in the algae growing on the glass, so I will take this as a good sign! Hopefully, I will also start to see a reduction in the other bits of algae that have popped up around the tank - presumably as a result of the excess food I was adding.
Water parameters (last weekend) remain unchanged.
This is still a long process to get nutrients down but this must be my eighth week now I think and my nitrates ahve dropped to 2.5ppm from 5ppm (Salifert). Just as a thought also, I have started dosing food for the fish etc less more often and I think this is helping too. Corals really are doing well too, colouration is gradually improving and growth has certainly accelerated.
One thing I have noticed however about my reactor is that there does not appear to be much mulm in the chamber? Is this normal and to be expected? To be honest, I thought there would be some debris and detritus as such in the chamber to be released as food for the sps and this, as I say is not currently evident in the Ultralith.
Thoughts on this?
instantsquid
13-05-07, 22:12
Nothing new to report here.
Parameters are all as before (nitrate 2.5ppm, phosphate 0.03ppm)
I really can't decide if this is worth continuing with at the moment. I appreciate that this is an "established" reef (a little over 12 months old now), but I started with the Bak and Min S back in January! Either I'm doing something wrong, or I've bought several bottles containing specimen samples.
To recap - system volume is 800 litres (approx). I'm running 2 litres of UltraLith in a Grotech reactor. I'm dosing 16 drops of UltraBio every day, plus 3ml of UltraBak and 1ml of UltraMin S.
Any comments - Jez in particular, if you're reading? Thanks in advance!
Nothing new to report here.
Parameters are all as before (nitrate 2.5ppm, phosphate 0.03ppm)
I really can't decide if this is worth continuing with at the moment. I appreciate that this is an "established" reef (a little over 12 months old now), but I started with the Bak and Min S back in January! Either I'm doing something wrong, or I've bought several bottles containing specimen samples.
To recap - system volume is 800 litres (approx). I'm running 2 litres of UltraLith in a Grotech reactor. I'm dosing 16 drops of UltraBio every day, plus 3ml of UltraBak and 1ml of UltraMin S.
Any comments - Jez in particular, if you're reading? Thanks in advance!
is your fuge runnning mate ? and if so it may be worth uping the bak a fair bit more for now :thumbsup:
instantsquid
14-05-07, 10:22
is your fuge runnning mate ? and if so it may be worth uping the bak a fair bit more for now
I have a small refugium above the tank - no substrate, just some live rock rubble and assorted algaes. This is brimming with 'pod life, plus bristleworms, a little crab, etc.
I also have a DSB and Chaeto section in my sump - I imagine it's this that you're referring to. Ripping out the DSB is a BIG step - I know Simon C has removed his now, but I'm still "on the fence" I guess as to whether it should stay or go. There's a huge amount of life in there, plus the Chaeto is still growing extremely well - surely it wouldn't if there was insufficient nutrient levels?
I'm dosing 3ml of Bak for 800 litres. Maximum dose for my tank is 4ml. Should I increase even further?
Also, it's been suggested I stop dosing UltraBio daily. Any thoughts?
im not doing ultrabio anymore and i ripped out all my algae last night just got to rip out the mud bed next, fed up with all the solids it collects anyway :p
its a big step but i think you either have faith in the system or you dont ;)
instantsquid
14-05-07, 10:38
im not doing ultrabio anymore and i ripped out all my algae last night just got to rip out the mud bed next, fed up with all the solids it collects anyway :p
its a big step but i think you either have faith in the system or you dont ;)
I'd happily bin the algae if it wasn't growing - I was expecting it to have started to die back by now, but it still hasn't.
Anyone want a DSB? 18" x 18" x 6" deep, sugar-fine sand, very well populated? :laugh:
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.