Observations

[AndrewB]

Hi

Been dosing the Min-s and Bak together now for about 3 months and have observed a fading of most of my SPS. I have the stones in a small Eheim cannister with a powerhead running at 350lph - I shake them every 3 days.

130 Gallon tank dosing 1ml of each for 1 month, now 2.5 ml of each.

Current stable readings

dKH - 8, Calcium - 430, Nitrate - 0 (salifert), Phosphate - 0 (D&D)

I use the KZ Carbon and Seachem Reefsalt, barebottom and skim wet (Deltec 851).

Fairly good circulation using closed loops and Tunze powerheads.

I feel the corals are being starved and am pondering on what to add next.

I am not losing corals they just look washed out and growth could be better.

I feed 2-3 times a day (Mussel, shrimp, Emerald Green, pellets etc).

I was considering Ultra Organic - any thoughts or recommendations.

Many Thanks

Andrew
:thanks:

[jez]

Hi Andrew
There are a couple of points here first up is the fading you describe simply say a brown coral getting lighter or is it corals taking on pastel shading as seen in some LNS.

At this point I would certainly look at using Ultra Organics and perhaps using ultra clam in conjunction with min's mix up once per week and allow it to build up bacteria dose lightly.

Are you getting much in the way of mulm from shaking the cannister ? This is an important food source. You will normally get a very positive response from the Ultra organics. If feeding fails to improve colouration you may find you need to use some of the power traces but I will speak to Claude at this point and see what his advice is.

A few pictures of you poor looking corals will help and its useful to see before and afters.

keep us posted

regards Jez

[trythechi]

HI Andrew

Sounds like you are on the 'cusp' of reducing nutrients to such low levels that the zoox are paring back, but there isnt an alternative source of nutrition to substitute for the zooz - hence the paling. As you are using FM - lets see what Claude suggests. In a ZEOvit system someone at this stage would be adding AAHC and PCV.

Cheers

Simon

[AndrewB]

Thanks for your responses guys.

I have a "brown" acro that is very pale, Monti Plates that were deep green and red which have both faded. However I do have a Yongei which has retained it's colour.

Do you think I should take the stones off the system ?

Andrew

[Stevielad]

Have you tested for Potassium?

From the little bit of reading I have done it is deficient in many tanks - but not so much of a problem until the nutrients fall. Especially implicated in fading Montis.

There is some nice info on the Zeo forum about this.

[AndrewB]

Stevielad

No I haven't but do use the Seachem Reefsalt which I understand does have elevated levels of Potassium over other brands.

I have read that the Kalium test is difficult to read and the old addage "don't add what you can't measure" comes to mind.

I thought by adding Ultra Organic or similar in small doses I maybe able to see improvement.

Andrew

[trythechi]

Thanks for your responses guys.


Do you think I should take the stones off the system ?

Andrew

Hi Andrew

Don't take the zeolites off the system - feed your corals as suggested.:thumbsup:

Have a look at post 30 on this thread.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=200964&page=3

Re Potassium - I dont think you have been using a bacteria system for long enough for the bacs to deplete K along with No3 po4, but its worth considering. The test kit is broad range - but does give an indication of where the water is. Managing Potassium is not new: The Modern Reef Aquarium by the Sven et al , 1996, pp221 mentions it as a major element to supplement.

Re the old addage 'dont add what you cant test for' - eyes are a much better test than kits. Kits may tell us that we have 0 no3 and po4 even though we have algae problems - believe ones's eyes:laugh: . If one doesnt know what to look for thats tricky, but you'd be missing out on potential if you dismissed the major and minor element replenishment on that basis.


Cheers

Simon

[ckrhone]

To Quote " feed well, filter better", does this mean with a low nutrient system that we should maximise natural feeding in the aquarium and drip feed phyto etc into the aqaurium or am I missing the point. I am getting my FM equipment ets on Monday and obviously want to look for signs of stress but also want to make sure my feeding regime is also correct under the low nutrient conditions.

[AndrewB]

Hi

Looking back at my outlook calendar and CC transactions it would appear that I have been dosing since the beginning of November.

From reading the links provided and other board members I am up for adding Potassium. KZ do provide an additive but is the FM equivalent Ultra Organic because I can pick that up much easier.

Starving the zoox does certainly sound lilke what is happening

Jez any feedback from Claude ?

Regards

Andrew

[trythechi]

To Quote " feed well, filter better", does this mean with a low nutrient system that we should maximise natural feeding in the aquarium and drip feed phyto etc into the aqaurium or am I missing the point. I am getting my FM equipment ets on Monday and obviously want to look for signs of stress but also want to make sure my feeding regime is also correct under the low nutrient conditions.

Hi CK

from what I'v read the main benefit of phyto is to feed the zooplancton which is largest part of wild sps captured food. In the ZEOvuit system its AAHC and CV and the cbacs shaken of the zeolites which are the sources of food to replace the loss of energy from symbiotic zoox, and with FM its the UltraOrganics, some of thier other products like ultraminF/S and the mulm as well. Prodibio offers up reef Booster as a solution.

In my tank though while running BB I struggled with nutrient limitation so added a sand bed to muck it up abit, and started to feed the fish more heavily. Its still ultra low nutrient water as indicated by the colors, lack of alage and kits, but a lot more nutrients pass through before being skimmed out.

Cheers

Simon

[jez]

Hi
I would suggest first off using the Ultra organic as this will help potassium if needed but more likely provide organic elem ts for the corals. I would also suggest tweaking the dosage of bak and min what is your current dosing volume and stocking density.

As everybody has said this is almost for sure a feeding problem so as suggested Ultra Organics and some Ultra clam mixed with min-s should help. Are you finding much mulm coming of the stones?


An image would help if poss

Regards Jez

[AndrewB]

OK I don't think I am getting much in the way of mulm. I shook the cannister and put the output into a glass - almost clear !!!

I have 500ml of Ultralith in a Eheim cannister with 350ltrs/hr passing through it - 700 ltr tank.

Question.

This is below the amount specified which has been in for 5 weeks - should I add another 1ltr ?

If this is the case then the corals are not getting fed ?

Andrew