Bleaching

[Jon B]

Hi,

I started dosing FM Min S and Bak some time ago and my corals bleached. I've since been told that I was dosing too much to start with so I stopped dosing and most corals are now recovering, although mostly still pale and I've lost countless colonies.

What causes the bleaching and how do you counter this?

Cheers
Jon

[ckrhone]

I am no expert but having indirectly asked this question, could it have been apart from nutrient deficiency which comes with this system, a lack of potassium? Have tou been running Ultralith or any other media? I have just set up my system and have just purchased som FM Ultra Organic for when the nutrients start to fall significantly.

The above is just an opinion and I may be way off the mark. I am sure someone on here will give you a definitive answer but would you post your water parameters for when this bleaching occurred. I think this may help whoever can answer your question.

HTH

[Jon B]

When I started in middle of October, I was dosing 1.5ml of Min S and Bak, parameters were as follows.

PH 8.0
KH 9.9
Calcium 440
Mag 1300
Nitrate 25
Phosphates 0.01

After a week I was getting cyano and reduced the dosing to 0.5ml of each.

I kept with that dosage and put some rowalith in for about 3 weeks in December. At the end of December I took the rowalith out and stopped dosing.

Corals are still washed out and parameters have remained stable, although dropped to these levels now, mainly as I've stopped using kalk as I thought that was the cause of my cyano.
PH 8.0
KH 7.7
Calcium 400
Mag 1200
Nitrate 25
PO4 0

Temp by the way is 26-27c

Is it possible that the bleaching is due to nutrients being too low (even though I've still got nitrate)?

Yours confused!
Jon

[AndrewB]

Jon

Getting the same thing as yourself and am not overly impressed at the moment.

I have started to add 5ml/day of Ultra Organics into a 700 litre tank but too early to say if anything is better.

I will dose for another 2 months but will stop if nothing improves.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Andrew

[trythechi]

Hi Jon and Andrew - really sorry to hear the effect espetially if Jon has lost a few corals. This is the 'cusp' I was describing in an earlier thread and needs to addressed by providing alternative food for the corals. I dont know how this is done with FM exactly, but with zeovit it includes using amino acids and Coral Vitaliser. I'm sure Jez will offer up the FM remedy. If you dont have access to these, suggest you double check the flow rates through the zeolites, reduce the bacs and carbons, and increase protean rich foods such a cyclopese, and switch the skimmer off for part of the day.

All the best

Simon

Cheers

Simon

[Jon B]

Hi Simon, Thanks for the response. Having done some more reading I also think it is down to lack of alternative feeding. I'm interested to hear from Jez as to what foods he suggests.

Rgds
Jon

[Jon B]

I think I've found the answer I'm looking for. To quote Jez from Andrew B's thread:

"I would suggest first off using the Ultra organic as this will help potassium if needed but more likely provide organic elem ts for the corals. I would also suggest tweaking the dosage of bak and min what is your current dosing volume and stocking density.

As everybody has said this is almost for sure a feeding problem so as suggested Ultra Organics and some Ultra clam mixed with min-s should help."

I'll get some pictures from my tank on here.

Jon

[JOHN & CAM]

It's not nitrogen deficit if you've got 25!!!The oceanic reefs contain about 0.05 parts of nitrogenous nutrients.The symptoms of phosphorous def are corals turning very brown and RTN style die back from the base up. Feed lots of wet foods with the liquid. Increase stocks. Use amino supplements.

[jez]

Hi
Sorry I have not been able to answer during the last week been a good bit ill with the latest cold virus thang.

As Jon and Cam point out its unlikely to be nitrogen deficiency. It is more likely to be PO4 or a missing minor element that has been depleted by the increase in bacterial action.

I have noticed you list a DSB and calerpa bed is the algae still alive. ?
What are you currently feeding the tank and the fish.

later Jez

[Jon B]

Hi Jez,

The algae is still alive, but certainly not growing and maybe depleting a little bit.

I'm feeding a mixture of flake (Delicasea) and frozen brineshrimp, mysis, chopped mussels, oyster eggs, marine mix, mixed together with a fish health additive (1 powder and 1 liquid, can't remember the name of them). Also Nori.

I've tested for Iodine and that's fine.

Could it be a lack of potassium?

Rgds
Jon

[jez]

Hi
I am starting to get a picture forming here as I have seen this happen in other tanks converting. The expected behaviour is for algae scrubber to fade away then be removed. What seems to be happening in certain tanks is the algae stays put although like yours perhaps a little reduced. The feeding and culture of the bacteria causes greater usage of trace elements especially iron and some of the metals. Combine this with usage by the algae bed and you start to see a deficiet of some missing elements.

Where this is happening to a friends tank we have removed 50% Of the chaeto and are dosing with Grotech A B C mainly as it was available and not really sure what is defficient the grotech covers the bases with a broad range of elemements.

I will report back further but it is more likely to be a missing elements rather than food as the nitrate is still high.

More later
Jez
PS as I get round the country quite a bit these days if anyone is having serious problems if I am around I am always happy to take a look if it helps

[Jon B]

Just to update, I've been dosing Ultra Organics 2ml per day, and upped the feeding of my fish. Some corals have recovered and seem to be doing well, others still got worse and died. :(

I'm back to dosing, now doing 2ml of Min-s and 0.5ml of bac with 8 drops of bio.

I'll put some pictures up later.

Rgds
Jon

[richb]

Jon,

My tank is about the same size as yours and one thing I have found in the last few days is the dosing instructions on the big bottles of Min S and Bak are diffrent from the ones on the small sample bottles Jez sent out FOC.

Im dosing 1ml MinS and 2ml Bak with no bad effects on my SPS as per the small sample bottles.

If I looked at the big bottles I could easy have this the other way round as you look like you have. Might be worth asking Jez about.

I had all the problems you are talking about in the past when I tried to run Zeo on my old SPS tank. This time it has been fine.

At the time this was put down to pulling to much stuff out to quick!

This week I have taken my algae out of the sump and binned as it has stopped growing and started to die back.

The only other thing I would say is a super size skimmer helps when running this stuff. I cant believe how much mine pulls out given the size of my tank to the rating of my skimmer.

RichB.

[Jon B]

Cheers Rich. I reduced the bak additions to pull out less. It will be interesting to hear from Jez on the quantities suggested on the bottles.

What's interesting is if corals bleach when they go from a higher nutrient environment to a lower one in an individual tank, then does the same happen when you buy a new coral that has been in a tank with high nutrients?

Jon

[Jon B]

From this...

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/fastfishracing123/Fish/Dsc03132.jpg

to this...

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/fastfishracing123/Fish/Pictures23.jpg

[Jon B]

Just for info, my current thinking of the continual decline of my acros is down to using carbon too agressively. At the same time that I started with FM, I almost filled a FR509 up with carbon :eek:

[trythechi]

Just for info, my current thinking of the continual decline of my acros is down to using carbon too agressively. At the same time that I started with FM, I almost filled a FR509 up with carbon :eek:


Hi John

Definately a contender:eek:

Also, have a look at post 110 ( and a few before/after) on this thread - maybe of some help?

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=200964&page=11

Managing the 'cusp' is the a critical stage.

Personally I'm not sure that its possible to maintain the Redfield Ratio and manage potassium through one supplement, as they are independant variables, but experience will show as results begin to come in.

Cheers

Simon