View Full Version : Need Advice, Bizare Sun Coral??
Ok I know there have been plenty of previous threads about sun corals, and ive read them, but im still concerned about mine :ponder:
Ive only had it 8days so maybe I am premature in my worries but I thought Id check with you guys that it was behaving normally (for a recently moved Sun) and it may help others with similar concerns at a later date.
From what I gather its a fairly big sun coral at approx 4" x 3" and for now I have put it on the sand with the 150 halide about 2foot away.
So.. my concerns.. it usually looks like this..
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/SunCoral1.jpg
And here you can see the only 2 heads which 'get it' and half come out after I tempt them with brine shrimp water
This is the most it has ever come out which was within the first couple of days..
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/SunMostOut.jpg
But it seems to be opening less and less and tonight i spent hours periodically tempting it with food and this is the most I could get out of it, notice the same 2 heads opened half way and fed (just). Some others showed a tiny bit of yellow but not enough to take food
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/SunBizare.jpg
Sometimes some of the heads do this around feeding time?! :eek:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/SunWilly.jpg
Some do this with their centers wide open but no yellow bits to take food
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/SunMouthOpen.jpg
Sometimes some of the yellow bits com out the side of the heads?
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/SunYellowBits.jpg
And the 2 that do feed blow up like theyre going to explode once theyve fed :wacko:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Sunblowup.jpg
Because of the size of the coral its too big to put a 2litre coke bottle over it without it touching. I 'think' i can get an alternative this week but at the moment its not opening to take food anyway
I only have a 35g tank and placement is limited (it didnt look so big in the shop :rolleyes:)
Theoretically is it possible to split the coral into two to be placed in more manageable/shaded areas or will this do more harm than good?
I did want to put it on the rock but its impossible to make sure it would feed well or to put anything over it to stop the food floating around the tank.
(at the moment I dont have enough fish to eat the excess)
I do want to do the best for this coral and am prepared to put the time and effort in, I just dont want to fill my tank with un eaten food and affect everything else and I dont want to do more harm than good pestering it trying to get it to eat :o
Hi,
Brine shrimp juice ain't the best TBH, not much goodness in it. Get your self some cyclopeze, the frozen stuff is better IMO.
Get your self a plastic bowl, fill bowl with tank water, place Sun inside bowl, do this underwater,, float bowl in tank, melt some cyclopeze in a seperate container, use a turkey baster to waft this over the sun.
One the the Sun is open, use mysis, Krill (meaty foodsl), feed the Sun (each head).
The Sun will recover with regular feeding, but you need to put the effort in.
The advantage of the bowl method, is you can discard the water in the bowl, thus saving your tank being full of uneaten food.
Your Sun will get used to the to this, it may take a little time, but stick with it. Its worth it big time in the end, when the Sun is in its full glory.
HTH
Ian
Hmm will look into other food for it thanks for the heads up, the effort is not a problem ill spend hours on my tank.
I was trying to go down the route of not moving it to feed it everytime really, surely it wouldnt be that good for it?
I figured I could feed the sun and fish would eat the excess afterwards but at the mo sun isnt eating any of it. :scratchhead:
Hmm will look into other food for it thanks for the heads up, the effort is not a problem ill spend hours on my tank.
I was trying to go down the route of not moving it to feed it everytime really, surely it wouldnt be that good for it?
I figured I could feed the sun and fish would eat the excess afterwards but at the mo sun isnt eating any of it. :scratchhead:
Hi,
Moving the Sun is not ideal as you say. However you need to feed it, catch 22?
ATB
Good advice from Tetley.
Perhaps what you could do is remove it for feeding until its back to its best then try the coke bottle method or some sponsors (I know aquaworld used to) sell a specialist feeding device.
http://www.aquaworld-partnership.co.uk/onlineshop/1/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=46&osCsid=30efc14b351d53fd55e16bb44c028c66
There you go, its called direct a feed.
Have a read
http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=195870
Moving the Sun is not ideal as you say. However you need to feed it, catch 22?
Hm i think you may be right :ponder:
its called direct a feed.
Thats exactly what I had in mind to make, was thinking if i fed it that way every day with some holes in for a little flow to circulate the food then over the course of the week each head would get fed to some degree.
Kizkiz I had read that article, very good but still didnt cover some of the bizare things this sun is doing.
Can I recommend Cyclopleeze to help your sun coral.
I got one last week and it didn't really open. I started feeding cyclopleeze and this worked really well.
Mine now comes out as soon as any frozen food hits the water and comes out really nicely now even during bright lights during the day. It also comes out a soon as the actinics come on.
Good luck!
Can I recommend Cyclopleeze to help your sun coral.
Good luck!
You certainly can Haulme thanks for the info :thumbsup:
Has anyone tried Arci-Pods though? Got some on the way and dont want to buy Cylopleeze as well yet unless they'll be too big for the sun.. says 6x the size of Cyclopeeze and not sure if the sun will take to it :ponder:
Arcti-pods from Coralculture? Certainly worth a try.
I use them, my sun coral certainly comes out when I put them in the tank, although when I'm target feeding it I usually give a defrosted frozen gammarus shrimp to each head.
HTH
Chris
Thanks for that Chris :thumbsup:
Good to know seen as i have some on the way and only have one fish to feed I dont really want to be stocking up madly on food that have use by dates on just yet :rolleyes:
Have the Arti-pods on the way, frozen brine shrimp and flake at the mo :)
Will try brine shrimp in a seperate bowl for now
Hi PawsReef,
Sometimes some of the heads do this around feeding time?! :eek:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/SunWilly.jpg
Have the polyps that exhibit this behaviour done so since day one, or have they developed it within the last eight days?
The protruding mouth is a sure indication that it’s hungry….. very hungry, as is the tightening around the calyx edge (the edge of the cup) that becoming evident in some of the pictures.
As for the weird pinching; I’ve seen this before, and IME could be one or more of the following:
The polyp no-longer has the energy to fully inflate.
The coral has experienced a rapid change in S.G., and or temperature.
The water column contains high dissolved organics, and or PO4.
Skimmer is producing excessive micro-bubbles.
Flow of water too strong.
Referring to the picture with the gapping, taught mouths;
Again, one or more of the following could be the trigger:
The coral has experienced a rapid change in S.G., and or temperature.
The water column contains high dissolved organics, and or PO4.
Skimmer is producing excessive micro-bubbles. And the 2 that do feed blow up like theyre going to explode once theyve fed :wacko:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Sunblowup.jpg
If it has just been fed meaty food, then there is nothing to worry about.
The pinching shown between the polyp and the calyx will go when the coral is fully nourished, and remains well fed.
Because of the size of the coral its too big to put a 2litre coke bottle over it without it touching. I 'think' i can get an alternative this week
Try using one of those square 4lt mineral water bottles.
Theoretically is it possible to split the coral into two to be placed in more manageable/shaded areas or will this do more harm than good?
Some reefers have fragged a sun corals in the past (i think scoob has, but i could be wrong), I personaly have not, purely because I've never had the need to.
That said, I believe the preferred method is to cut the coenosarc with a razor blade, and then cut the skeletal material with Dremel or similar.
I personal would not frag anything but a very well nourished animal.
Some tips to hope fully aid you in your cause, if feeding in-tank without a ‘top-hat’;
Turn off all pumps including skimmer if it’s a hang on tank.
When the water column is still, using a syringe or turkey baster, form a cloud of your coaxing mixture (mushed up Mysis / brine shrimp juice / cyclopleeze [re-hydrated in the juice of frozen food or amino acids works a treat] / amino acids / etc etc) around the coral, and leave for 15 minutes or so.
If the polyps are fully expanded; use a baster to deliver Mysis or similar to the tentacles.
If the polyps are partially expanded, but show aprox 3mm of tentacle tip; using a syringe (if Mysis etc wont past though the nozzle, use a baster)manually stick the food to the tentacles by half releasing a shrimp, and then gently rub it on the tentacle whilst slooowwwllly pressing on the plunger (or bulb).
Using either of the above methods; once the food has been ingested, repeat two or three times.
Once the feeding has finished turn skimmer and pumps back on, there should by very little left over food floating around and any that does remain will hopefully be re-circulated back to the coral.
Once the coral is well nourished and fully expanding you want have to turn the pumps off (unless you want to), as the tentacles will simply grab the food as it passes / touches them.
Alternatively, follow Tetleys directions for the ‘out of tank’ method.
I also echo previous replies concerning cyclopleeze; it should be in every sun coral keeper’s arsenal. It’s excellent for ‘ringing the dinner bell’, feeding babies, and as a compliment to larger meaty foods.
Hope some of the above helps,
Roger
Will try brine shrimp in a seperate bowl for now
Unless the shrimp is enriched in vits and amino acids, they will be very nourtishonaly 'hollow', try and keep there use to a minimum in favour of mysis and or small krill.
Roger
Thanks Roger I knew youd be along to advise on this soon :worship:
The erm *cough* 'willy' looking polyp or two happened on day 2/3 here after blowing food over it and they are now mostly if not all inflating at times just not extending the tentacles. (it doesnt do 'that' anymore)
It does still sit with some of its 'mouths' open after being blown with food but these are on the side where flow is strongest, perhaps it is too strong there :ponder:
Water parameters - I was careful with acclimatising so hopefully it wasnt the change in temp/salinity. :(
-When introduced all my levels were 0 and had been for a good fortnight but as it happens since then I have had problems with my 1 fish getting white spot and my nitrate, nitrite and phosphae rising to 2, 0.1 and 0.1 this last week but seem to be under control again now thankfully.
-However (and im guessing here) I would have thought there is high dissolved organics in my water as my rock is very green and algea'd. (it was dead rock plus live rock 7weeks ago)
-Skimmer isnt producing micro bubbles.
-Possibly is lacking the energy to fully extend tentacles now but is expanding so will persevere! :(
I certainly wont even consider fragging a coral that isnt 100% healthy, was just wondering for future really but thanks for the info there :)
The last few days i have spent hours blowing food over it and feeding what tentacles I can, like you said with a syringe and wiping the shrimp over it and I think im slowly getting more opening ever so slightly to grab a lil something and those that do feed do better the next day.
I think what I will do is get better food for them urgently and feed in a bowl seperately until its stronger and extending properly because with the white spot outbreak i need to keep hands out as much as poss and the tank is too small for a large 'top hat'
Funny how you think youve done all your homework on these things and then find out there was so much more to know :rolleyes:
The poor things been introduced just before a bad time for my tank with irregular lighting times and parameter troubles.. I should have waited for this one shouldnt I :doh:
Im determined to get him healthy and feeding well anyway and then I think we will be lauging :thumbsup:
Thankyou so much for your advice Roger, much apprechiated, its good to know whats happening! :thanx: :hug:
Hi PawReef,
Thanks for the extra info, it's (hopefully) been very helpfull:)
The 'willies' (:laugh:) and gapping months, will almost definatly be caused by the presence of NO2, this will / would have seriously put the coral in one almighty grump.
wiping the shrimp over it and I think im slowly getting more opening ever so slightly to grab a lil something and those that do feed do better the next dayUnfortunatly a sure sign that it is very hungry... it's using the previous days food to fuel the extra expansion.
As long as your see futher expansion each day things WILL improve.
On the ones thay show no tentacles, but protrude their mouth, try to very delicatly place a shrimp on the mouth... as long as the water flow, fish or shrimps dont knock it off, the polyp should (fingers crossed) ingest it, a very PITA way of feeding and is quite hit 'n' miss but may be required.
To aid ingestion, orientate the shrimp along the mouth opening, not across it... if that makes sence.
All that said the coral may still has some reserves of energy within it which is evident by the coenaoasrc not being extremly tight (your seeing the begining of this at the calyx edge in the pics) or receeding. So once its out of it nirite grump expansion may improve.
The poor things been introduced just before a bad time for my tank with irregular lighting times and parameter troubles.. I should have waited for this one shouldnt I :doh: You mention that your parameters where 0 when added..... how where you to know NO2 was going to make an show. No need to beat yourself up-side ya head :)
Im determined to get him healthy and feeding well anyway and then I think we will be lauging :thumbsup: Good on ya:thumbsup:, hopefully we'll see some nice pics in the photograpthy section.
Thankyou so much for your advice Roger, much apprechiated,Anytime, no worries, happy to help where I can
HTH, and please keep us informed,
Roger
I thought i'd just echo everyones reccomendation on the cylopeeze front. I've been using it to nurse 3 rescue cases back to health, there in a real bad way. I can't recommend it enough. i have 5 suns and they all go nuts for the stuff even the 3 rescue cases. :thumbsup:
Marc
Thanks guys youve been a fantastic help on this one I will keep you updated and will be onto the Cyclopleeze first thing tomorrow :)
The No2 only got to 0.1 at its worst but definitly went up from 0 guess Im gonna have to keep a very close eye on that with a large sun and only a 35gallon tank :rolleyes:
Well Ive spent hours with the sun coral today, floated it in a bowl of cloudy Cyclopeeze tank water this morning and the poor thing was so weak all it could manage was to have its mouths gaping wide open but didnt extend tentacles at all :(
Back in the tank 3 or 4 polyps started to have extending tentacles so throughout the day ive been spot feeding those that do.
This evening it was looking a bit more promising so blew some food over it and within a few minutes I was kept busy syringe feeding every single polyp over and over again :rolleyes: :applause:
I think youll agree that shes looking much much better :clap:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/SunYay1.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/SunYay2.jpg
Big big thanks to everyone who gave advice and mahooosive thanks to evilervin for taking the time to go through all my questions (im sure there'll be more) :worship:
Ill do this again tomorrow and continue to keep her happy now, by the way shes adopted the name 'Gen' as she insisted on imitating genitalia :laugh: :rolleyes:
Hi,
Great improvement. :thumbsup:
ATB
Well done, nothing more satisfying than bringing a coral back from the brink. Keep up the good work and 'Gen' will make it all worthwhile.
ATB
Chris
Hi,
I think youll agree that shes looking much much better :clap:
Yep! much, much better.:cool:
It's good to see that every polyp in the pic is capable of excepting food:):rockon:
by the way shes adopted the name 'Gen' as she insisted on imitating genitalia
:teehee::hysterical:
mahooosive thanks to evilervin for taking the time to go through all my questions (im sure there'll be more)
:o.... like I said before, No worries, happy to help.
Roger
ChrisBFish
06-06-07, 19:40
Looking good! Ours looked pretty much like that when we got it - but is now 'normal' (i.e. like in proper pics! ;) ) within minutes of any food hitting the water. Keep up the good work and it should keep rewarding you :)
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