View Full Version : Sun Coral 'Fragging'
Go on, shoot me :unsure:
...no really, hear me out.
I know I said that I wouldnt frag my sun until it was 100% healthy again BUT.. I spent a few days intensively feeding it polyp by polyp with mysis, cyclopeeze and brine shrimp throughout the day and it was doing a lot lot better. But, part of it wasnt doing as well because it was in too much flow where it was.
Being such a big coral in a relatively small tank i didnt really have anywhere else to put it where i could access it properly for feeding and out of the flow. SO.. i figured that if i 'fragged' it (well, chopped it in half) I could put it in 2 seperate areas with less flow and it'd be happier & easier and more accessable to feed. :o
This pic shows how large the sun coral was in the front of my tank
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/02-1.jpg
Now I did do my homework and searched as much as i could for others that have fragged or chopped a sun coral up first, I didnt find a lot of info and hardly any pics which is partly why im adding my experience here.
So.. one hammer, one sharp chisel, one bowl of tank water, one container of tank/cyclopeeze flake water, one turkey baster.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/FragAway.jpg
I put the coral into the bowl of tank water, tried to find a line to split the coral damaging as less polyps as possible and erm.. hammered a chisel along that line :unsure:
Have to say that wasnt too difficult and there was a bit of gunk that came off it which i sucked off with the baster.
A couple of the cups did get pretty damaged and i decided to cut this tissue off with a stanley so that the coral could concentrate on recovering and feeding rather than trying to repair damaged polyps.
Well once that was done and id cleaned most of the gunk off i put it into the tank/cyclopeeze water floating in the tank. It had its mouths wide open so I figured the extra food may help it to recover.
And here they are, 'Gen1' & 'Gen2'
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/sunfragged1.jpg
Didnt really float it for that long, maybe 20-30min max and put them back into the tank. After about an hour this was Gen1
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Hourafterfraggin.jpg
And after a couple of hours this is how they were doing (can just see Gen2 on the left)
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Hoursafterfraggin.jpg
That was about 3days ago now and i have intensively fed them and i mean lots and lots, individually feeding each polyp shrimp with tweezers throught the day and evening :rolleyes:
And this is how they are doing today
Gen1
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Gen13rdday.jpg
Gen2
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Gen2.jpg
Still got a little way to go till theyre 100% and keeping a close eye on them but all in all pretty sucessful I think :D
Im happy and they seem to be happy so now I can admit to what I did hopefully without gettin told off tooo much :o
Stop beating yourself up about fragging it, i honestly believe it makes far more sense to frag a coral that isnt at 100% health than to frag a fully healthy one.You have given the coral a really good chance of survival and both halfs look as though they are doing really well :)
I've fragged a couple myself that were looking a bit worse for wear when we received them and have never lost any, they are very easy to do.
Can i ask why you are keeping them are keeping them on the sandbed?, in the wild they tend to be found on the reef wall and in cave mouths.I would be a bit worried about sand irritating the lower polyps.If they were higher up in the tank the sand couldnt irritate them and they would be far easier to feed.
I'm not critiicising just curious.
Nice job on the fragging :)
Cheers for taking the time to do a wee write-up and post pics:).
I agree with Whoops, you shouldn’t beat yourself up for fragging the coral.
My comment on a previous thread stating that I personally wouldn’t frag unless healthy, was purely my own personal opinion based on that fact that not all the polyps where feeding. The ones not feeding where surviving using the ‘energy’ stored within the skeleton, and I couldn’t see the need to effectively half this supply.
Now that all the polyps on both halves are feeding, and are been fed, I can’t envisage any issues.
It looks like you’ve done a really neat and tidy job.:)
Gen 1 and 2, both look like their doing well.
Can you post a pic of the cut / break? I’m interested in seeing how the coenosarc has reacted.
Also, out of interest, what is the blue plastic thing, with nylon rope tied to it for? (It’s in the ‘tools’ pic)
Roger
paws that looks like a tin of Cycloppeze flake, you may get better results with the powder for your Sun.
Can you post a pic of the cut / break? I’m interested in seeing how the coenosarc has reacted.
Also, out of interest, what is the blue plastic thing, with nylon rope tied to it for? (It’s in the ‘tools’ pic)
Will get a pic a bit later :yes:
The container had tank water with some disolved cyclopeeze flake that i used to float them in after splitting for a bit, the mouths were gaping so i figured some extra food woudnt be a bad idea before i returned it to the tank.
(Blue string was so it didnt sink :rolleyes: )
paws that looks like a tin of Cycloppeze flake, you may get better results with the powder for your Sun.
Yeah i havent been able to get to an lfs without transport so Ive relied on the muppets for supplies this week :o and had to disolve the flake, will get some as soon as poss :)
Can i ask why you are keeping them are keeping them on the sandbed?
One of them is now on the side of the rock and happier than it was on the sand bed right under the halide, the other is still on the sand bed mainly due to lack of ideal placement but I am aware of the sand and tried to make sure its not bothering the lower polyps and make extra care that those are feeding.
I have wondered if any worms or inverts would bother the skeleton from underneath but figured that would happen on the rock too if they were going to..
Thanks for the input guys. :thumbsup:
Im pleased it didnt all go very wrong :rolleyes:
Can you post a pic of the cut / break? I’m interested in seeing how the coenosarc has reacted.
Sorry Roger had a power cut today :wacko: Used the time with lack of powerhead to leave food on the suns and then the Actinics were on after so theyve been out all night. Ill get you some pics tomorrow :rolleyes:
Edited to add a pic of Gen 1 doing very well today (Gen 2 still has a lil catching up to do for full health yet)
and so you can see that the baby polyps along the back have also opened up and are looking healthy too now :D
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Sunbabies.jpg
Superb. :)
I am working on mine today. Its looking better already.
I removed it from my tank and used an old ice cream container.
I have added cyclopeeze, Lobster eggs and red plankton. I used a syringe from a test kit and squirted each head until they started to open a little.
Been doing this for over an hour. I will repeat what I did earlier after 3pm. I am confident it will be ok :)
Thanks for your help too Sarah :)
(Blue string was so it didnt sink :rolleyes: )Ahhh, I see now, its a 'Coral cradle'... like it!
Sorry Roger had a power cut today :wacko: Used the time with lack of powerhead to leave food on the suns and then the Actinics were on after so theyve been out all night. Ill get you some pics tomorrow :rolleyes:No worries:)...... sodin power cuts:annoyed:
Edited to add a pic of Gen 1 doing very well today (Gen 2 still has a lil catching up to do for full health yet)
and so you can see that the baby polyps along the back have also opened up and are looking healthy too now :D'Gen 1' looks much, much better, the polyp extension is coming along nicely. At its current rate of improvement, it looks like Gen 1 will attain full extension within a few days.
Good on ya:thumbsup:
-------
I have added cyclopeeze, Lobster eggs and red plankton. I used a syringe from a test kit and squirted each head until they started to open a little.
Paul, dont forget it offer larger food stuffs, such as Mysis etc, when the polyps are open.
Roger
Right, here you go Roger :)
..What does the inside of a Sun Coral look like
Gen 1's Cut Side
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Gen1Cut4.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Gen1Cut3.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Gen1Cut2.jpg
And Rock side that was underneath, now on its side with baby polyps
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Gen1Cut1.jpg
Gen 2's Cut Side
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Gen2Cut1.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Gen2Cut3.jpg
And Rock side that was underneath, now on its side - Obviously lost some polyps there previously?
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Gen2Cut2.jpg
looking good, i think you carried out a great job there, just have to make sure you keep the feeding regime up
regards
rupert
Hi PawsReef,
Thank you for the requested pics, I appreciate it very much… you’re a star!:thanks:
With reference to the last pic;
“Obviously lost some polyps there previously?”
Judging from the erosion of the septa, and the discolouration, it occurred sometime ago.
As a wee side note; looking at the septa arrangement on a few of the exposed calices (although heavily worn), and in conjunction with the corals colouration, I’m pretty convinced that the species you have is, Tubastraea coccinea (Lesson, 1829)
Again, a huge thank you, for taking the time to post all the pics etc.:)
One more thing through, can I be a real big PITA:whistling: and ask you to please send me larger copies of the ‘cut / inside’ series of pics to: suncoralnut@googlemail.com
Cheers,
Roger
Sure, No probs at all :thumbsup:
Any info I can share Im more than happy to and thanks for the ID :D
They are both doing very well, starting to open up when food goes in the water and once theyre out they stay out vertually all day and evening which is lovely :)
This is my revived sun coral this evening.
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g206/Paul_uk74/DSC00617.jpg
Hey thats getting there now, well done :applause:
Keep up the feeding and it will be strong and healthy in no time, glad you turned it around too :thumbsup:
This was Gen 1 last night :wub:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/camera1051.jpg
And Gen 2 not far behind now :D
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/camera1042.jpg
I really luv these corals theyre amazing, they remind me of happy smiley things :D
Glad to see your sun coral is doing better.
I bought a sun coral for my tank last week. It has only really started to open up in the past few days. The body of it has gone from a plump pink to a more yellow wrinkled afair. I guess this is due to it being hungry and not eating well for the first few days while it adjusted. Going to be target feeding it intensly for the next week or so.
I'm I right in my assumption here guys?
Yes mate
Get a suitable sized container i.e ice cream tub (empty and cleaned of course :)).
Place the coral in the tub making sure it is covered with water and try some Cyclopeze powder, just add a quarter of a tea spoon to a bit of water and allow it to sink in the water before using. use a baster or syringe from a test kit and squirt it into each head.
after 10 mins or so or once all the heads are out use red plankton or your preferred food. I defrost a cube without using water so it defrosts to a thick paste. I then use a 5 ml syringe from a test kit and take in the red plankton and inject each head and leave it a while to take in and wait for the heads to open again. Once they are open I place mine back in my tank :)
Below is a recent picture of it in full bloom
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g206/Paul_uk74/IMG_0067.jpg
Once you get it feeding you can then do it in the tank and it should be fine. Just make sure you feed the shrimp first as they steal the food from the coral. (thats why I use a tub)
The coral was eating well last night with the use of a turkey baster, just switched of the powerheads.
I'm liking the idea of the clean coke bottle to stop the food getting pinched by fish. Going to give it a go tonight. I reckon if I target feed it with this method it should be fine in a week or so.
Cheers guys :thumbsup:
Hope your sun coral is still doing well and coming out more now Grant?
Mine has gone from strength to strength and its amazing how easy it is to feed and maintain now that it is healthy. Dont even need to turn the pumps off, just use a syringe or turkey baster to target it and it all gets eaten!
No more feeding each and every polyp with tweezers over a course of hours :rolleyes: :laugh:
I will post pics in a few days when the new lappy arrives (i have still been taking them just not able to download them yet) I thought they couldnt get any better than the last pics I posted but this last week theyve looked absolutely amazing and the polyps have opened even more.
I do luv this coral :D :wub:
Its doing fine
My only concern about it was the main body of the coral had gone from a plump pink looking mass when I got it to a more yellow wrinkle body after a week or so. I'll try and get some pics up but this is hard due to my home computer not working at the moment :mad:
The stems with the polyps are fine and all extend nicely for food.
I'm thinking it could be more or a water chemistry problem so I did a water change last night and will do some test when I get home.
Having looked at other peoples Sun Corals it does look the same so maybe I'm worrying over nothing. I'll keep a close eye on it.
Still target feeding every night with brine shrimp to be on the safe side. My Clowns are funny now as soon as the baster goes in the tank they swim to the bottom of it and peck the baster until food comes out :laugh:
JOHN & CAM
28-06-07, 10:43
Its doing fine
My only concern about it was the main body of the coral had gone from a plump pink looking mass when I got it to a more yellow wrinkle body after a week or so. I'll try and get some pics up but this is hard due to my home computer not working at the moment :mad:
The stems with the polyps are fine and all extend nicely for food.
I'm thinking it could be more or a water chemistry problem so I did a water change last night and will do some test when I get home.
Having looked at other peoples Sun Corals it does look the same so maybe I'm worrying over nothing. I'll keep a close eye on it.
Still target feeding every night with brine shrimp to be on the safe side. My Clowns are funny now as soon as the baster goes in the tank they swim to the bottom of it and peck the baster until food comes out :laugh:
Sun corals are a very easy coral to keep. The reason is if you feed them high quality foods often they will thrive. Grant you need to change the diet of your sun coral as brine shrimp will not give your coral the protein and nutrients it needs. Brine shrimp are a poor food and you would need to feed heavily and lots of times a day to achieve the corals net food requirements, you would have better results using mysis,krill and the best of all cyclopeze. Cyclopeze is high in protein and has a high percentage of betaceratine( the natural orange pigments in flora and fauna) which will help colour your coral nicely.
Hi,
the main body of the coral had gone from a plump pink looking mass when I got it to a more yellow wrinkle body after a week or so.This is a sure sign that the coral is not receiving enough nutrients.
Basically as the coenoasrc tightens, and thins (due to malnutristion), it will progressivley turn more and more yellow before begining to receed.
As JOHN & CAM said above, artemia is a very 'hollow' food and you should change to more nutrient rich food sources.
IF artemia is to be used it must be soaked in vits and amino acids, and never used as a primary nutrient source.
Cyclopeze is high in protein and has a high percentage of betaceratine( the natural orange pigments in flora and fauna) which will help colour your coral nicelyjust to add to the above, with reference to colouration;
IME the 'best' readly available food for retaining (or returning) natural colouration is fresh white fish such as haddock, colely, cod, whitting, etc, etc. fed as a 'treat' a couple of times a week.
Daniela Stettler, another sun coral nut, has also observed that LIVE artemia is excellent for retaining good colouration, iirc fed a few times a week... but it is still pants as a staple food.
Returning to white fish, and as a kind of a side note;
Since changing to fresh haddock as the base for my lots offerings (changed from enriched mysis), instead of just a small bit as a weekend treat. The increase in reproduction, colouration and coenosarc production is absolutly staggering.
The upside using haddock as a base, so far, for me (kinda 'blowing my own trumpet', but please bear with me:o);
The 'old' T. micrantha has produced 28 new polyps in 3 weeks and are rapidly growing, as well as the welcome return of its divine, lush green colour to the coenosarc covering the corallites.
The T. micrantha 'baby' has had a really good growth spurt, in relation to polyp diameter and the spread of coenosarc.
9 of the T. coccinea 'babies' have divided, the remaining 18 have increased coenosarc production and polyp size.
The 'new' micrantha has produced 8 new polyps.
The colouration of the Dendrophyllia arbuscula has become deeper.
White fish also has an added bonus, it 'sticks' to the tentecles a LOT better then any other food ive used. which is especially handy for those hard to reach polyps.Now before every one with a sun coral reading this runs to Tesco, there has also been downsides;
Skimmer goes nuts, and often overflows:annoyed: (time for a much better, bigger skimmer me thinks)
Pollutes the water column very quickly. Water changes have increased to 10% every other day with an extra 30% at the weekend... what a PITA, but needs must.
Takes slightly more time to prepare... but who cares!Roger
.
Takes slightly more time to prepare... but who cares!Roger
Hi Roger,
Please could you exapnd on this bit (how do you prepare),
Thanks in adavance.
ATB
Ian
Hi Ian,
Please could you exapnd on this bit (how do you prepare)Sure could;:)
Gut, fillet and clean the fish. (or buy fresh fillets from the supermarket)
Remove the skin, any remaining bones and any 'stringy' bits.
Roughly chop the fish into small pieces, add a few ml of amino acids and vits (for good measure), and give a quick whizz with a hand blender.
Aim to end up with pieces ranging in size from ‘krill’ to ‘brineshrimp'.
Remove as much as you would use in two days, and freeze the rest. I use approx 250g of fillet (not whole fish weight) every 5-6 days to feeding 649+ polyps daily. (as well as mysis, cyclopleeze, red plankton (calanus sp), etc, etc)
mix with a little tank water in a bowl (helps brake the pieces up), deliver with a turkey baster.HTH
Roger
Thanks Guys
I've got Mysis in the freezer so I'll swap to that and try and get some packets of the others mentioned.
Hi Ian,
Sure could;:)
Gut, fillet and clean the fish. (or buy fresh fillets from the supermarket)
Remove the skin, any remaining bones and any 'stringy' bits.
Roughly chop the fish into small pieces, add a few ml of amino acids and vits (for good measure), and give a quick whizz with a hand blender.
Aim to end up with pieces ranging in size from ‘krill’ to ‘brineshrimp'.
Remove as much as you would use in two days, and freeze the rest. I use approx 250g of fillet (not whole fish weight) every 5-6 days to feeding 649+ polyps daily. (as well as mysis, cyclopleeze, red plankton (calanus sp), etc, etc)
mix with a little tank water in a bowl (helps brake the pieces up), deliver with a turkey baster.HTH
Roger
Thank you Roger,
Appreciated. :)
ATB
Think i'll give it a try.
Picked up this beauty a couple of weeks ago :dance:
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e197/kizkizkieran/PICT0002.jpg
Pics are rubbish as i was holding camera in one hand and torch in the other. lol..it's looking better these days too
Hi,
That is a little stunner. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
ATB
My 2 are generally out in the afternoon as well as during the night which is nice but these are pics from last night
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Gen2Night.jpg
Gen1
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Gen1Night.jpg
Gen2
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/Gen2Nght.jpg
Mine start to open up the back of 6pm inpreparation of feeding time. Lights stay on 'till 8pm then it really start to open up
I have had a sun coral for a couple of years now and always fed it spirulina encriched brine shrimp and althought the polys come out fine and are growing and increasing in numbers the tissue between each of the polyps is receeded. I was told this was normal for sun corals. But from what you are saying Roger it is a lack of nutrition. if properly fed will it grow back if fed mysis and krill?
Many thanks,
Al
Hi chaps and Chapesses
Paws;
Gen 1 & 2 are looking very good:thumbsup: , both are displaying excellent polyp extension.... good on ya!:).... oh, and forget to tell you, I haven't recieved to 'cut' pics, could you send them again please... sorry to be a PITA.
KizKiz;
Nice looking little fella you got there... any chance on a full pic (on a seperate thread, to save 'cluttering Paws's fragging thread.. or email to suncoralnut@googlemail.com).
I dont know if it the torch light, but keep an eye on the coenosarc it looks very thin in places.
Alasdair;
spirulina encriched brine shrimp
ARGHH! Bin it!... waste of your time and the corals energy (hence the recession).
I was told this was normal for sun corals.
:laugh::laugh::laugh::annoyed::annoyed:(not directed at you, just the advice given)
If we exclude water conditions, then 99% of the time the recession of the coenosarc is due to the lack of nourishment, or more importantly, long term nourishment.... feed as much as your water parameters and water change regime can handle (but try not to feed to the point of regurgitation)
if properly fed will it grow back if fed mysis and krill?
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on an number a factors such as, suitable nutrient quanities, water conditions, and the 'state' of the skeleton; eg algae growth etc.
Mysis and krill are gazillion times better then spirulina encriched brine shrimp, but I would still at least, add amino acid, vits, and cyclopleeze in to the mix (at least).
HTH
Roger
Yes roger, it has a bit of recesion in a couple of places.
Hopefully it'll sort itself out, as is still feeding very well.
Params have not been tip top but are back near where they should be (micanthra Not been in tank long enough to be my fault ;))
Thought Id update this as its been a while.
Gen 1&2 are now Gen 1, 2.1 and 2.2 :o
It was a bit of an experiment to put them in different areas of the tank and see if it affected how they did.
Thankfully all 3 are doing very well, Id say that the one with slightly less flow is slower to respond to food etc but that probably is beause it doesnt get so much passing by. Once its fully opened though its the same as the others and has great expansion.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/SunCoral-2.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s253/Pawsreef/SunHead.1.jpg
I now feed them a substantial amount of food in general every other day and they come out about an hour before the actinics come on ready for an evening meal.
Ive just added a black sun coral (Tubastraea micrantha) to my collection that also needs some TLC but it does make a very nice contrast against the coccinea
Hi chaps and Chapesses
oh, and forget to tell you, I haven't recieved to 'cut' pics, could you send them again please... sorry to be a PITA.
Roger did I re send you those pics? Ive got a brain like a sieve and cant remember now! :rolleyes:
mrbritish1976
08-01-10, 19:34
when fragging the sun coral do you have to split the whole rock the coral is on or could these be fragged like zoas?
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