View Full Version : Phoenix from the ashes
So it starts!!
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0001.JPG
300K of LR takes time to remove, sitting in a foot of murky water rummaging about hoping not to encounter a bristle worm:(
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0002.JPG
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0003.JPG
the fish in their temporary quarters (still connected to the sump)
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0004.JPG
Empty at last now just the cleaning to do:(
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0005.JPG
The 2x15000lr closed loop pumps plumbed in.
looks like a mammoth task there - fish look happy in there temporary quarters though.
Must have missed it, but how come the strip down?
excellent photo log there, good to see Keith supervising you :D
so.... what happened next?
Clippo-A number of reasons-
My 2 original pumps were 750w each:( now the sequence are 500W the pair. I had 4 streams which were forever blocking up and were a pain to get to:( -they are now redundent all circulation is closed loop. I had 6x400w halides in lowbeys are have now been replaced with 4x400 electronic ballasts and luminare reflectors saving about 50% leccy for no loss of light. Majanos were overrunning the system.:mad:
And finally I thought the layout needed updating.:D
Scoob- Couldn't have done I without his help, what happens next? watch this space:fear:
good to see a photo journal of a reconstruction
excellent progress and the tanks gonna look great at the end of it:thumbsup:
keep the pics coming
regards
rupert
Reef bloke
10-08-07, 19:40
Makes me feel tired just looking at the pics,hard work but im sure itll be worth it.Look forward to seeing the end result.
Tony
simon garratt
10-08-07, 20:07
Nice one Haydn..
really looking forward to seeing this come alive again..
keep up the good work buddy..:)
regards
Si.
fireproofcujo
10-08-07, 21:32
The refit seems like common sense at the moment going to save you a lot on the the old electric bill with the prices rising sky high as they are good luck :thumbsup:
EnglishReefer
10-08-07, 21:58
It's horrible stripping any tank down:( , but great fun putting them all back together again:) . Looks like hard work there! How big is the display tank?
Superb, the evolution is well under way, I can well understand your motivation to strip and modify the system :) good work ;)
How big is the display tank?
It's only 2x1x1
It's only 2x1x1
Metres :confused:
It's only 2x1x1
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Metres :confused:
Oh dear!! did I forget that bit:laugh: :laugh:
Oh dear!! did I forget that bit:laugh: :laugh:
lol thought so :)
Next installment
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0007.JPG
This bare egg crate became-
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0008.JPG
the other side
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0009.JPG
a full tank shot
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0010.JPG
finally a very kn*****ed builder
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0006.JPG
My back is killing me:( but its done:thumbsup:
very nice, like it alot. Very open
There is still 250K of (dead) LR in there!
I had to make it open or else I couldn't climb out:o :confused:
Ahh well just got to let the RO unit fill it up............................................
Reef bloke
12-08-07, 22:32
Great Aquascaping!!!!
disco_dave
12-08-07, 22:45
Looking good! :applause:
keep em coming
R:thumbsup:
Like the structures a lot:)
those piers look awesome.
did you move the eggcrate bommie as an all in one??? if not (it would weigh a ton) how did you build it outside, then get it right again inside?
did you move the eggcrate bommie as an all in one??? if not (it would weigh a ton) how did you build it outside, then get it right again inside?
The 2-3 large rocks on the bottom are cable tied to the eggcrate so they were moved with the bommie (luckily I have bred a big son :) ).
i took lots of pictures from various angles and in picture 2 you can just see the wood I used to simulate the bottom of the tank and give me an idea of the position of the bommie within the tank. Then it was just a case of taking it apart, laying out the rocks in order and then my wife handing me the rocks,in order while looking at the pictures. It isn't exactly as it was built outside but fairly close:whistling:
great aquascaping open spaces nice structured raised rock a bet that was a bit knackering placing all that rock looks cool :applause:
best regards
jon
Loving that rock work, nice idea with the egg crate :)
Looking really good there Haydn, hard work but it'll be worth it once it's all up & running.
What's the stock list going to be, any different to previous?
:thumbsup:
Just got the lights working so here is a better picture of the aquascaping. Woo-Hoo a whole 2" of water in 24 hrs only another 36" to go:(
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0011.JPG
suk-not even considered the stock yet.
wow those lights look awesome, perfect fit!!!!
looks stunning as it is, so easy to visualise full!
Loving that aquascaping and it hides the pipework on the left hand side really well. Got this strong impulse to re-arrange my rockwork now. Good luck to you in the next steps!
John
this tank is going to be amazing once completed
R:thumbsup:
fantastic looking scaping, wow. as 4 the egg crating that is well hidden and so a mighty fine job done, i can already see the fish and corals will make this an excellent looking tank
this tank is going to be amazing once completed
No pressure then;) :D but I really hope so and it'll be easier to maintain in my advancing years;) .
Hopefully once its done I can leave the corals to grow really big and become naturalistic (hate that word!!)
Well thats 750ltrs and the first 25kilo of salt-its only taken 4 days:(
Just 1250lrs to go:cool:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0013.JPG
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0014.JPG
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Tank0015.JPG
Umm-I looks quite nice with the water only up to this level, has anyone done a reef paladium with fiddler crabs and mangroves????
If you were closer I'd lend you my RO unit - is there no one local to you that could lend you there unit for 24-48 hrs?
What RO unit do you use?
RO man- 6 stage 150galls/day- realistically at this time of year it does about 50 galls/day which normally is more than enough.
Hi Haydn,
How is it going? Full up yet? :)
fireproofcujo
20-08-07, 13:56
you think he's teasing us ? give us an update :laugh:
No it isn't :mad: I estimate 4 days-ish and as I bored watching the water slooowwwly fill the tank, I thought I would write up some of my thoughts and reasons for changes.
The first change is the return pipes to the sump are separate- in the old set-up 4x 1½” pipes ran into a 4” pipe and then to the sump, now I have 4 x 1 ½”, 2 run into the sump, 1 gravity feeds the skimmer and the final one is going to be used to gravity feed a phosphate remover or a ULNS reactor.
The reason for gravity feeding the skimmer is (thanks SiG:) ) firstly to put it in the correct place i.e. straight from the tank, but mostly so I can balance the flow through it to allow the DSB in the sump to work to it maximum efficiently by feeding just enough. The other returns will be positioned to maximise flow in the sump. The tank returns will be 2x Ehime compact 5000s giving a realistic sump turnover of 6-10 times/hr.
The old 4” pipe went into the sump into an open top glass ‘box’ I am proposing to turn this into a cryptic zone by adding LR rubble and blocking the light. There is only a small opening connecting it to the tank so low oxygen conditions should develop.
The sump already has a healthy stand of red mangroves, so I’m hoping to extend this and use the sump more as a refugium, adding decorative algae, more LR and maybe shrimps to provide a supply of macro life into the tank. It has a mature 6” deep sand bed with lots of worms and other life.
The circulation within the tank is by closed loops (the size of the tank makes it difficult to maintain streams/in tank pumps) using sequence 15000s. The outlets are diagonally opposite (you may be able to see them in the picture) the theory for this is after looking at the flow in the fishes temporary home, as the water circulates the small fish hang in the current all facing the same way. I am hoping that water in the tank will circulate in the same way (OK I know it will not be as good as in a circular tank) but if I place the auto feeders in the correct position as well I may achieve what I want. The turn over in the tank is approx 25 times/hr (perhaps a little low but there will be an option of adding another sequence). One of my ideas is to put motorised valves in the feeds so the flow runs one way for 10 hrs and then reverses to run the other way, with an hour of ‘slack’ water with all the valves open.
There will be an auto top-up using Kalkwasser, currently the tank loses about 10-15 galls/day in evaporation. The main calcium addition will be by a Koralin 4000 reactor, but I intend to de-gas using a smaller reactor after the Koralin but not adding CO2 to it.
Stocking-As have said on many occasions ‘I LIKE FISH:D :D ’ so I have increased the available swimming space- I would like a big shoal of anthias (but not squammies-too boisterous) or maybe a number of smaller shoals of different types of shoaling anthias or perhaps fairy wrasse or ………………. I have 10 baggiis’ so they hopefully will inhabit the cave.
I tried softies and found I missed coloured sticks so the tank is going to be aimed at SP/LPS left to form large colonies. Of course there will be lots of snails-I’m not sure about hermits-I may try to achieve the scavenger role using peppermint shrimps-these will be an insurance against aptasia as well.
But of course this may all change.:whistling:
Any comments/thoughts/constructive criticism would be acceptable and accepted gratefully.:thanks:
Thanks for the update. :)
You have a plan, it looks fairly good on paper and it will likely work very well.
Please keep the updates coming, I'm sure your tank will be even better than it was before. :thumbsup:
The only negative point I'd like to mention is the return plumbing; I feel most if not all of the water will exit through the lower hole (highlighted in red), the upper hole might even suck water in (the picture looks like you'll have two holes per closed loop return).
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Haydn's tank.jpg
This can be modified (assuming you have not done so already); if you fit reducers in the lower hole only it will create back pressure ensuring that some water will leave through the upper hole too. You can make reducers, just cut a bit of pipe into a "C" section, maybe do this 2 or 3 times to create enough restriction.
Looks great Haydn! Love the rockwork. Looking forward to some more photos. :)
Thanks Tony- I have considered this- I took advice and the thought is that 15000ltrs of water will cause a pressure when it meets the bend at the bottom and I should (hopefully:whistling:) get enough back pressure to get a 'drift' from the top hole which is what I'm trying to achieve.
Failing that I have a couple of bungs to increase the pressure in the pipe:thumbsup: :laugh:
Regards
fireproofcujo
20-08-07, 20:22
i hope no snails have crawled up them pipes cos when you turn the pumps on you will blow a hole in your glass :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
:D Just a quick update- I switched the RO off at 16:27 25/8/2007 after 13 days and almost 3x25 kilo buckets of Reef Crystals.
The closed loops have been working for 24hrs with only one small leak:annoyed:.
Sg at 1025
Very slight NO2
No NO3
Slight PO reading
Will be putting some live Live rock in, all being well Monday or Tuesday.
A few pictures of the (underwater:thumbsup: ) rockery:D
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/tank0017.JPG
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/tank0018.JPG
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/tank0019.JPG
The water is coming out of both the upper and lower holes Tony :whistling: :) and the water in the tank is circulating:)
Excellent progress (all be it no doubt slightly frustrating at the drip, drip:))
Hi Haydn
Great start to the new tank - look forward to seeing it with your stock back in, it's a credit to you :thumbsup:
regds
Jay
:)
I'm in totally new territory:eek:
I put approx 20K of live LR in plus a couple of ice cream containers of sand from my DSB in the sump and I've got a v.high nitrite reading and a nitrate reading of 50+. a PO4 reading of 0.5, but at least the Ph is OK 8.3.
Because I cycled the tank last time with 300K of live LR i did'nt get any No2 or No3-I'm just not used to this :( :( :laugh:
Can't believe this did a test yesterday and the nitrite was 3-4ish today its GONE!!!:D repeated the test to make sure and the same result:applause: To increase my delight the nitrate is down to 10ish.:dance:
Still got a slight phosphate reading but thats slowly going down due to the rowa.
So the plan is leave it until tomorrow, retest and if its still OK try a couple of cromis in there..
The best part is there was a bit of millipora on one of the LRs and that survived the very high nitrite and nitrate with no problems:confused:
poor chromis get all the crap jobs
i love the dimensions of your tank though
well the cromis survived so this morning I put the 5x yellow tangs in there, added a bit of flake for the cromis and the yellows are feeding on it-result:thumbsup: .
So will be adding more fish daily while checking all the readings.
watch this space!!
Hi Haydn,
At last eh, full of water!:dance:
The best part is there was a bit of millipora on one of the LRs and that survived the very high nitrite and nitrate with no problems:confused:
Many people will be amazed at this, but NO2 (Nitrite) is far less toxic to MARINE fish than most realize, fresh water it's very toxic alright.
I have had some montipora growing (an old base left behind on some LR) whilst my system still had very high NO2.
Have a read of this for info on NO2: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php
The water is coming out of both the upper and lower holes Tony :whistling: :) and the water in the tank is circulating:)
Good news then, must look nice as the closed loops switch, spinning the water in the opposing direction :thumbsup:
Well 5 weeks after I started this project I can report the water is circulating around the system though the sump, the skimmer is back online properly (and pulling out some very smelly stuff), the fish are in, closed loops working and the tests look OK considering the newness of the system and how much I stirred it up.
So result:D :D
The losses were minimal (though not acceptable:( ), I have 19 of the 26 cromis I bought over 2 years ago (I only lost 1 due to the move.) I expected the tangs to get WS, especially the PB, but so far they are all clean, although the cleaner wrasse is working hard:). There have been a few 'handbags' as the fish sort out the new heirachy but only the odd split fin.
I'm going on holiday the week after next and I just going to let the tank settle till I return. Then when i get back the calcium reactor, kalk auto top-up and phosphate fluidiser will be installed and the best bit started- stocking the tank :D :D :thumbsup:
Reef bloke
18-09-07, 10:52
Superb mate! Glad things are going well.
Its been a while since I posted an update- and I totally gutted- after running without any problems for 2 1/2 weeks and all the readings being good. Three days before I went on holiday I had a massive ammonia spike overnight- It totalled the fish :( but left the shrimps, urchins and corals OK. My wife had to clean the skimmer daily (sometimes twice daily) while I was away. I was/am gutted:(. Fish I had since the tank started- a chevron tang I grew from a 2" baby into a 7" adult, a majestic from a 1" to 5" adult, etc,etc........
So I now have to replace the unreplacable, I need your thoughts (please no sympathy-I know how gutted and sad I am:( :( )
As I've said I like fish and especially groups (shoals) -the tank is large enough to maintain big numbers of small(ish) fish, So....... anthias, cromis and fairy wrasse are obvious contenders but how about thinking 'outside the box' and suggesting the, perhaps, not so obvious, a pod of Spinner dolphins, although they would be nice would be a step too far:) .
Over to you.........
Matthew5664
16-10-07, 11:26
Shoal of 12 Striped Squirrelfish(Sargocentron xantherythrum)
Pair of Maroon Clowns
1 x Clown Tang (Acanthurus lineatus)
As I've said I like fish and especially groups (shoals) -the tank is large enough to maintain big numbers of small(ish) fish, So....... anthias, cromis and fairy wrasse are obvious contenders but how about thinking 'outside the box' and suggesting the, perhaps, not so obvious,
Over to you.........
A blank canvas to work on, maybe too blank; are you after colour? How big is too big?
Going on what you've given me and, assuming you've accepted that the "not so obvious" fish choices can be harder to come buy, taking time to source, I would suggest the following (all can be kept in groups):
Chromis retrofasciata, only grow to 2" long so pack them in if you like?
http://mikael.aqua-web.org/Eliosto_tiedostot/vanneneitokala.jpg
Hoplolatilus purpureus
http://www.peteducation.com/images/articles/pw71601purpletilefish_goby.jpg
Serranus tortugarum
http://www.marinecenter.com/media/photos/FDD7956C3A62467887D6AC65265D11E0N.jpg
I know anthias are an obvious choice but there's good reason for them being a first choice, there are some amazingly good looking fishes in the group, just imagine obtaining a group of these Pseudanthias ventralis:wub:
http://www.izuzuki.com/Zukan/Inai/fish/Photo/niramiosu.jpg
http://www.dive-tahiti.com/images/plongee-ventralis.jpg
MagpieCott
16-10-07, 12:07
Do suggestions have to be reef friendly?? :wave:
simon garratt
16-10-07, 12:55
ive got some of those Chromis myself... stunning little fish although they can get bullied by larger sp of Chromis so be carefull there....imo, they are a better and more interesting alternative to the standard chromis .
as for the Purple Tile fish...from experience with these Id say just be carefull. They take almost constant feeding. are very very jumpy to start with and are hard work....not that prone to infection, but they do seem to have a horrendously high motabolism..
regards
si.
I think you have hit the nail on the head Tony- I have never had to start from scratch since I got my first tank, I have always had a fish or three from the previous incarnations and with this much space it is so difficult. Also with keeping fish for 30 odd years I've 'done' most of usual stuff, so tangs and especially yellows don't really grab me.
As for size I have considered wanatabe angels so if you consider 4-6" ish. as for colour-yes but balanced.
Yes reef friendly please
Chromis retrofasciata, only grow to 2" long so pack them in if you like?
Now those I like:wub:
Ventralis- The problem is they are deep water anthias and don't seem to adapt to bright washing machines (or SPS systems:D ) I had a friend who had 12 and only saw them at feeding time.
Maroon clowns- had one of those and got fed up with it digging up the substrate and beating up anything that came into range but stunning.
Tile fish- V.interesting suggestion
Push the boat out mate.
Your tank is so huge go for a mix. Like me, I now have Anthias, Lionfish (dwarf granted), 3 Triggers soon to be 5 when I get some Sargassums, Tuskfish. Tangs (biggies).
You know your fish, I know you know your fish....
Go for what you love and to hell with the rules...hehe.
Craig
ps, so sorry to read that you lost all your fish.
simon garratt
16-10-07, 14:43
How about one of these puppies.
The blackfoot lionfish...
http://www.reefwonders.net/encyclopaedia/bla.asp?sezione=6&enc=1
http://www.reefwonders.net/encyclopaedia/img/bla_s_heterura_02.jpg
regards
Si.
PS same from me haydn... major commiserations m8...
Sorry to hear about your losses - it's never a good thing to hear about life-loss...
Your tank was really beautiful. And you had GREAT fish!
Do you know what really happened yet?
Haydn,
I'm sure you will use this oppourtunity to take your time and get exactly what you want; you're far from wet behind the ears :) you'll know what will work in your tank and please your eye :wub: try and imagine what the fish will look like when fully grown etc.
Dartfishes are another love of mine, small and lovely looking fish, not on display all the time but a selection can work well. Despite what some books say I've seen them kept in groups before in a few tanks (so long as they're large tanks - which yours is).
http://www.seasky.org/reeflife/assets/images/firefish_purple.jpg
http://cs.brown.edu/~twd/fish/PNG/DOEP356-009.jpg
http://www.marinecenter.com/media/photos/563DF2ED079649C6A70DD59C9B52109FD.jpg
How about a shoal of Heniochus diphreutes?
http://www.sandiskredsea.com/_uploads/competitorphotos/cut/0555_0000_bannerfish2.jpg
simon garratt
16-10-07, 15:44
must admit Tony, youve got me on that one as well.....Firefish are one of the additions i was going for as well.
:wub:
You should get this lot... :D
(Lyretail Anthias, I think)
http://www.photec.co.uk/CQ%2005%20Anthias%202.jpg
Norvern Rob
16-10-07, 19:41
I don't get it, why on earth would anyone spend a fortune on a reef tank to keep a load of goldfish? :whistling:
hayden has already had several hundred of those :D
What about black cap grammas, I have always intended to get a large group of these. they can apparently be kept together in large numbers, just ahrder to get hold of. that's a lot of purple when added together.
why just fish? 200 blood shrimps would look awesome convoying across your rockwork!
100 glass cardinals?
Tony- I was seriously considering filefish but I read that they don't shoal and as they grow they weed out the subordinate fish in the group until there is only a pair left???
Jason-Now thats what I want- which LFS did you see it in???:laugh:
Scoob -I had 10 TB fredmandii and they looked and interacted wonderfully, Blackcaps would be much better but I haven't seen them together and worry that I may have a blood bath.
I have a loverly cave on one side and cardinals are on my wish list.
if it were me i would track down some different cardinals they are about ans would look quite cool.
also what about sankeyi dottybacks from the red sea a saw a tank in the wholesaler a few weeks back that had loads in around 400 at a guess it looked awsome !
Thanks for the suggestions I think I will be going for a group of those cromis retrofaciatus, some shallow water shoaling anthias (not sure of the species or more than one species), cardinals (again not sure of the species), I quite fancy a group of fairy wrasse and/or firefish and if I have room some gammas (thanks Scoob).
so now I want suggestions for 'spot' fish, larger fish, single or pairs to make a 'statement'. My ideas revolve around watanabee angels, a pair of regal angels (apparently the males and females have different sized gill spines which is obvious when you see them together), also on the wishlist is a pair of moorish idols:eek:.
But any other suggestions or comments (especially from Tony who has been really helpful (thanks:worship: )) would be appreated:thumbsup: .
Addis butterflys
are they reef SPS/LPS safe????
Good point - forgot this was going to be a reef set-up...
How about an achilles tang then..
How about an achilles tang then
Now you're talking- I have done the tang thing so I sort of discounted tangs, but achilles- Ymmmm anyone tried these as a group maybe 3-5?? What about the dreaded WS:annoyed: I have read so many horror stories:(
There's always quarantine....
Now you're talking- I have done the tang thing so I sort of discounted tangs, but achilles- Ymmmm anyone tried these as a group maybe 3-5?? What about the dreaded WS:annoyed: I have read so many horror stories:(
The achilies are very prone to white spot, never kepy one myself but know a few who have, bit of a stress adict imo. Dont know about groups of the achilies, could be risky; if you look at how powder blues shoal in the wild (have you dived in the maldives or seen pictures?) trying to replicate this behaviour in an aquarium has always ended in tears (deaths):( .
Assuming your after some larger show type fish, I'd avoid most tangs; they require so much swimming space and with respect, even in your tank I dont think there's enough room to house them long term without health problems. A mix of yellow tangs, a kole or a few convicts may be OK long term but that will put you on your limit; the larger tangs or harder to keep tangs may be more headache than it's worth imo:) .
Have you considered some of the reef safe triggers? :confused: :) A large-ish fish that does not require huge space (compared to tangs).
Blue throats:
http://waynesoceanworld.com/bluethroat.jpg
http://www.marinecenter.com/media/photos/607577FCC52D4AD29E0BFE00AD4CE150G.jpg
http://www.marinecenter.com/media/photos/0A3791D149AF42388401E138309E8390U.jpg
http://waynesoceanworld.com/crosshatch.jpg
You could keep several pairs together?
Angels are another choice, but fairly obvious. :)
The other way to look at it is, so what if it is common? The bottom line, do you like it? ;)
Fwiw, I have yellow tail blue damsels, green chromis, false percs, a yellow tang and these I would get again, I love them! :D
triggers are not shrimp safe. Haydn has stated he wants to keep shrimp.
Shame really as triggers are GGGGGreat.
triggers are not shrimp safe. Haydn has stated he wants to keep shrimp.
Shame really as triggers are GGGGGreat.
My blue throat is fine with my cleaner shrimp, mind you, only had in since the weekend :laugh: (I'll check on the shrimp later:o )
Lucky Eddie
17-10-07, 13:18
How about a Barienne tang ?????
Great show fish and seem to be becoming more available at the moment.
Venustus angels ( maybe a coral risk though)
Or IF you can get some, Starck's damsels.............lovely.
Norvern Rob
17-10-07, 15:27
I've got a 4" Niger and a pair of Bluethroats around 4" - none have bothered the shrimps yet - but there's plenty of time as they get bigger I suppose.
FWIW I would always have a pair of Triggers in a reef tank, they're just such characterful fish. If they eat my shrimp as they get bigger well sod it, I just won't buy any more shrimp :laugh:
And if you're after a pair of Moorish Idols I would speak to Mark at Acropora House and see what he can do, his fish are superb. I got an Idol from him at the weekend and after a first day failure (it was eating at Marks) it now eats flake, frozen, pellets, Nori, you name it! and at £40 a lot cheaper than i've seen them in some places.
My niger saw of my shrimps in approx 1 hour.
Personally that does not bother me as Shrimp are boring where as Triggers aint. I would not risk it saying they are safe though as they are undoubtably risky to say the least.
Craig
simon garratt
17-10-07, 20:06
I think its dependant on the size you get them at as well. My Niger trigger was only about 1" when i got him so ignored my pep shrimps totally (too much of a mouthful) now at about 2" hes not fussed at all. just ignores them.
Ive had success with radiata lions in the past as well (getting them in at about 2" long) then convert to dead food as quickly as possible after then its easy street as long as you keep them well fed.....when i got rid of my last one, she was about 8" which is good for a radiata in captivity, and she was fine with cleaners, peps, damsels, a 1" maroon clown male and a whole host of blennies etc...
Keep well fed thats the key IMO.
Re the tangs: be carefull, although you do see some species shoaling in the wild..(Powder Blues, Gold rims, white cheeks, Pajama,) .nearly all the Acantherus and some of the Zebrasoma family only do this seasonaly to group spawn. the rest of the time they spend as individuals or pairs defending a small patch of reef quite vigerously. There are only a few that i know of that are obligate shoalers, like the yellow tang and Convict...(this may be why people have some success with these two species but only temporary success with many others in groups...)
regards
Si.
my radiata is great, never had to feed him anything direct, been in tank for a few months now, never seen him eat but he's growing well, I also have another dwarf lionfish, same thing as the radiata....no issues...not lost a fish to either yet..they are small though.
simon garratt
17-10-07, 21:49
Most beautiful of all the lion family imo......and a definite addition to my Maldivian reef in time...
regards
Si.
Oh dear- I think I'm about to alienate 75% of the board. Triggers do nothing for me-I don't think I would give them tank room (sorry:o :o :o )
Lion fish I hadn't considered but I do like the little fuzzy ones:wub: .
I have been speaking to a (not so) LFS (they are a sponsor so I can gve them a plug-TAC) and they can get (hopefully) Cromis retrofaciatus and one I saw while searching- Nitida so 10-12 of each are on order:thumbsup: .
When I was diving inthe Red Sea last week I noticed that Regal angels almost always swam in pairs. So I mentioned this to the LFS and they have a 'tame' collector in the Maldives, and if regals exibit the same behaviour there, they will ask the collector to catch and export a pair without seperating them (so lots of crossed fingers).
I would like representation from the genicanthias group:wub: of angels.
I suppose the next question is- is it possible to run a reef system of some 600galls and 250K of LR without tang grazers or reef hermits, I want shrimps as that part of a 'clean up crew'- I was considering alternatives like lawnmower blennies (had two in the last tank), and small herbiviores like Rainsford Blennies (gobies??) to give me algae and biofilm control.
.
I suppose the next question is- is it possible to run a reef system of some 600galls and 250K of LR without tang grazers or reef hermits, I want shrimps as that part of a 'clean up crew'- I was considering alternatives like lawnmower blennies (had two in the last tank), and small herbiviores like Rainsford Blennies (gobies??) to give me algae and biofilm control.
If you dont like algae, rabbit fish are always fat and feeding they're like a greedy dog! :laugh: (not the best looking fish though:o ), I'm using one at the moment to control a calerpa outbreak in the main display.
Urchins are another good algae eater, very underated imo :), great colour and much better looking than snails :).
I would go for a group of Watanabe Angels that would look awesome and very different to the norm
Elliott
I went into my LFS yesterday and they were cleaning a system, in the filter they found these:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/firefish1.JPG
According to the shop they hadn't had firefish in for 3-4 months and these has been together in 10 galls of water since then, so hopefully they are used to each other.
So following Tony's suggestion I bought all 5. Good call tony:thumbsup:
P.S. forgive the Cyno
I went into my LFS yesterday and they were cleaning a system, in the filter they found these:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/firefish1.JPG
According to the shop they hadn't had firefish in for 3-4 months and these has been together in 10 galls of water since then, so hopefully they are used to each other.
So following Tony's suggestion I bought all 5. Good call tony:thumbsup:
P.S. forgive the Cyno
They look lovely! :wub: They are so good looking :wub: :thumbsup:
I did a fair bit of research on the firefish, and as long as they are all introduced together they tend to pair up and make thier own little place in the tank away from other pairs.
Another thing is they like to jump - more so if added into an already busy tank.
Hope that helps.
PS awesome looking tank :)
They have split into two pairs plus a spare- I think I may need to get another one as the spare isn't 'happy'- its not swimming round, just sort of hanging around the rocks but its still feeding OK.
I know they are jumpers but as the tank is a metre deep they dart upwards but tend not to reach the surface.
It's been a while since I up dated here, mainly because I've been busy and the tank has been slowly maturing.
I found this in a LFS who does not normally do SPS- it came in as a turbinaria (sp?)-it was in a tank with a number of others under T5 compacts for 3-4 months and I only noticed it when most of the turbinarias had been sold.
I am 90% sure its an Acro Efflo unless you know better:o
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/efflo0001.JPG
this I'm not sure about it was labled as a Hydnaphora (Sp again?) but the skeleton looks wrong.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/hyd0001.JPG
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/hyd0002.JPG
All suggestions welcome
I was correct about the firefish they don't shoal, I have two pairs and one dead one (harried to death by the others)
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/firefish0001.JPG
And finally I found these:wub: in a LFS today Just couldn't resist them I know they will devistate the pod population but look at them:wub: :wub:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/hawk fish0001.JPG
They are shy at the moment but they act like a true pair-sitting together and showing to each other as a 'greeting'.
Then stock list is 100 turbos, 25 peppermint shrimps, 4 firefish, 2 longnose hawks, 2 green cromis, mntipora coral frags, hydnaphora??, efflo and gorgonian, plus some zoas which survived the freshwater dip, pressure wash and drying!!!!!
fireproofcujo
23-11-07, 20:53
Excuse my ignorance but are the last pair in the pic hawkfish i am just learning :o they look great though :thumbsup:
ignore me just caught the stock list right at the end :laugh:
Espocrespo
23-11-07, 21:34
Still got your cyno
Get one of these Valenciennea Longipinnis (Glider sleeper goby)
I got one and it got rid of my cyno in a week!
The cyno is slowly going although I still have it in the sump so a Valenciennea Longipinnis may be a usefull addition. do you have a picture.
Espocrespo
24-11-07, 09:13
Go on the link.
They are so good for cyno they even take it off the rock(surprisingly) as well as continuously clean the sand. They hardly put any on the rock
A couple of piccys of the long nosed hawks
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/hawkfish0010.JPG
:wub: :wub: :wub:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/hawkfish0011.JPG
NO MORE PICTUREs PLEASE WE'VE POSED ENOUGH:laugh: :laugh:
Espocrespo
24-11-07, 13:37
Wish I had a pair of hawks
Excellent pair of longnosed hawkfishes!!
Need to get them a big gorgonian to live in!! :)
John
What you mean like this John.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/gorgon0001.JPG
Like school clothes-it'll soon grow into them:laugh: :laugh:
Finally finished the filter cupboard so the system is totally running, the skimmer and posphate remover are gravity fed from the tank overflow. The skimmer has approx 4000l/hr through it and it seems to be running more effectively that when i was pump feeding it, the skimate is much thicker and darker and the tank water seem more polished (this of course is purely subjective and I have no scientific proof:o )
The Calk reactor, made up of a Koralin 4001 and a Deltec 1501?, as the degassing unit, is running on a peri pump. The controller is set to 6.3 and the dkh is creeping up its was at about 28 an hour ago.
Auto top up is running via the ROman 6 pod unit.
2x sequence 15000 on closed loops under the floor, together with 2xEhime 5000 as the sump returns.
The plastic ice cream container is an intrigal partof the filter system (before you ask) I had a slight drip on the PO remover which I cured BUT you know the dreaded over night when the gremlins are about:( ;)
The Ph is 8.1-8.3
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
Calcium 430
The posphate is still a little high but considering what i put the tank and LR through its dropping much quicker than I thought it would
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/filter0001.JPG
A quick update
The measurements
salinity 1025
PH 8.1-8.3
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
Phosphate 0.01-0.02 and dropping:)
calcium 440
DKH 12.5
DKH out of reactor 40+
Magnesium 1400ish
Stock
2xgreen cromis
4xFirefish
2xlong nosed hawks
100x turbos
25xpeppermint shrimps
2xblood shrimps
1xpistol shrimp
monti, hydrophora, millipora frags, gorgonion and 2x large helophoras
1xblack cucumber
A full tank shot
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/tank812070001.JPG
The pond
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/tank812070002.JPG
A closer shot of the mangroves-looking a little sad, I pruned them so they will bush out at the start of the winter and they haven't started to bud yet.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/tank812070003.JPG
I love that salty pond, looks great! :D
You're tank is coming along nicely, new fish look stunning - I was thinking of adding a LN hawkfish too but I was worried about my firefish :o I may add one in a few months, assuming your fish are all still getting on well in the new year :).
Thanks for the update :worship:
Ohhhh my god -what have I done..................
You know how i said a few posts ago I wanted a pair of regal angels, well my LFS had.......
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/regal0001.JPG
1" of :wub: :wub:
and
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/regal0002.JPG
1 1/2" of :wub: :wub:
Both feeding -one is much bolder than the other. They have met and except for a fin flaring they seem to get on.
One has (relative to size) larger gill spines than the other (said to be the way to tell male from female). SO :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:
Now you've done it!! ;) Spectacular fish!! :)
John
lovely, i am so jeallous it is untrue. jobr once found me a 50p size juvenile regal, i paid for it and reserved it, went in to collect it and they had sold it on. :(
dorsal spines is one way i have heard of, rounding of the tips of the pectoral fins is another. i believe that regals change into male if the dominant in a tank. as both of yours are still very much juveniles (spots near the caudle peduncle are very clear) you may well have 2 females. fingers crossed for you sir, you have possibly accomplished one fo my remaining reefing ambitions!!!
A pair of Regals stunning:)
I love my Regal, great fish and a model citizen.
Reef bloke
18-12-07, 19:33
OOO yesss,who's a lucky boy then!!!
Very, very, very nice! Lucky sod :)
They were sitting in the LFS for a month -one was reserved and the LFS didn't want to sell the other til the first one had gone -probably insurance. apparently the guy who had reserved had a problem with his tank so both became available. I had been lurking for a month and noticed the reserve tag had gone, so I jumped in:D :D
SpongeBobSquarePants
19-12-07, 08:22
wow
Do you find the mangroves benefical? and what quantity i was thinking about 3-5 potted in a spare chamber in my sump, had mixed feedback.
Also, those firefish and hawk's look gorgeous. Lovely tank.
Si
wow what a great setup shame about the loses before
Do you find the mangroves benefical? and what quantity i was thinking about 3-5 potted in a spare chamber in my sump, had mixed feedback
It depends what you are using them for- if its just for nitrate removal then algea is more efficient. if you want something that isn't quite as good but looks about a 1,000,000 times better then go for mangroves:wub: .
What I am trying to say is I have the mangroves for their visual effect -any thing else is a bonus.
I have 12 in there at the moment -they are looking a little sad because I pruned them in the autumn to get bushy growth and as its winter they are not growing strongly yet-My mangroves get a lot of natural light and have adapted to british seasonal conditions, i.e. they go dormant in the winter, even though I have a 150w halide over them.
SpongeBobSquarePants
19-12-07, 12:34
yeah, thanks for the advice
S
Hiya,
I have one of those 50p size regals, I've had him/her for about 5-6 months now. Absolute star, feeds from my fingers and never touches corals, always had a fat little belly from the first day she went in. Doesnt seem to of grown a great deal though, perhaps a few mm but not excessive, no where near the growth rate of one of the larger angels during that time frame.
Nick :)
emperorfish
19-01-08, 01:07
Love those baby REGALS :worship:
Espocrespo
19-01-08, 08:47
Have you got a new fts and pics of your regal
OK its about time I did some updates:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/8Feb20080006.JPG
Full tank shot- I can never get it to look right:annoyed:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/8Feb20080001.JPG
The bold baby regal:wub:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/8Feb20080002.JPG
The best shot of the shy one:o :wub:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/8Feb20080003.JPG
I have 7 of these blackbar chromis (with more on order:wub: )
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/8Feb20080004.JPG
Acro
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/8Feb20080005.JPG
Another:whistling:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/8Feb20080007.JPG
Love this one
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/8Feb20080008.JPG
Algae control (and how!!!)
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/8Feb20080009.JPG
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/8Feb20080010.JPG
Lilac monti can't wait til this gets big
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/8Feb20080011.JPG
Male and female long nosed hawks-Female on the right-judging by her belly there could be some loving tonight:eek: :laugh:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/8Feb20080012.JPG
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/8Feb20080013.JPG
A couple of aqua-cultured acros
sweet, hope it lasts long enough to see them corals grow
hope it lasts long enough to see them corals grow
Yes- i know- I did a lot of soul searching before I decided to just carry on with the tank and leave the development in the lap of the gods..............
If it happens it happens.
markoshark
08-02-08, 23:04
The longnose Hawkfish don't try and kill the shrimp?
they are model citizens- don't touch anything (except for the pods:( )
things are looking fantastic.
the two regals look familiar to a couple my local (a non sponsor) had a few weeks back.
does one of them have a tendency to swim upside down?
the two regals look familiar to a couple my local (a non sponsor) had a few weeks back.
If your LFS is in leicester then it is entirely possible;)
They are eating well- brine, krill pacifica as well as algae, etc on the LR, in fact almost anything i put in.
The problem is they only just about tolerate each other with no fighting and they go to great lengths to avoid coming face to face. I wouldn't advise anyone with a 'smaller' tank trying what I am doing, especially if you are of a nervious disposition:(
One is dominant swimming in the open most of the time-the other spends most of its time in the rockwork, it is getting enough to eat (i think) but as it is totally dominated by the other, it continues to worry me. I think there may be more issues especially as they grow and become sexually mature.
So watch this space......................
Swimmingwiththefishes
10-02-08, 13:59
I love the pair of hawkfish!:wub:
Cheers Alan
Looking good Haydn, I love the pic of the hawks.
What's the coral in the pic below the Crab pic?
:D
It was labled as Oxipora but I think its more likely to be either Echinophyllia or Echinomorpha, I'm leaning towards to latter.
I can hear the rustles as people get their Verons out:D
Lukechromis
14-02-08, 13:36
What a great tank. I only just found this thread. That mangrove pond is brilliants. I s it a concrete pond or a tank set below ground? Once i have a palce of my own in the future i have always dreamed of having a large tank like tis one. Very natural.
Thanks,
Luke:thumbsup:
Thanks luke-Its a concrete hole lined with glass, it was due to be fibre glassed but it didn't dry out enough.
Lukechromis
14-02-08, 14:13
Does that act as you whole sump or just extra filtration. I know you said mangroves don't do anything but i have heard that as they grow they can replace skimmers due to the amount of rubbish they take out of the water. Is there any livestock in the pond?
:thanks:
It contains my DSB all 4'x3'x8" deep of it -20k(ish) of LR- soon to have a cryptic zone (when I get round to it:whistling: ). various algaes, some shrimps (peppermint, blood, pistol and boxing), lots of mysis, snails and other critters.
The mangroves are not as efficient at removing pollutants as algae so it would be unlikely that they could replace the skimmer.
psychojohno
14-02-08, 20:47
Awesome tank, i wish i had the room and money for a monster like that! I notice your from leicester where abouts do you shop?
Haydn that sounds like a big big digging job!
Look forward to seeing it finished, love the idea of actually using the dsb as a visual area in the outside of the house, dual functionality.
I notice your from leicester where abouts do you shop?
I assume you mean in Leicester-I tend to use most of them and pick up stuff as I see it, one will import special fish (if he can get them) for me (not a sponsor so PM me if you want to know which one). The only issue is there is no shop in Leicester or surrounds that consistently has good (and unusual) sps.
Haydn that sounds like a big big digging job!
I was lucky- when we moved into the house there was an old falling down conservatory and I got the builders to make my 'pond' when we had the new garden room (the architect called it that!) built. so no effort on my part:)
hi hayden,i know you said you have done the tangs but i have a 4-5 inch zebrasoma desjardinii sail fin i would love to donate to your tank.i will even deliver it to you.i just love your setup,and would jump at the chance to see it.regards mikk
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/mikkscoob/DSCF2374.jpg
Mikk you have a PM- and you are welcome to come and see the tank just drop me a PM.
Images of this tank does it no justice. Haydn was kind enough to let my brother and I view the tank in person and it is absolutely fantastic with some awesome SPS :thumbsup:
Well done on another great achievement, I'll definitely be keeping in touch to see the SPS grow in to the masses of space :applause:
Thanks Haydn :thanks:
PS I hope all goes to plan with the fish ;)
The progress of this is something not to be missed.
Thanks again Haydn
Nav & Saf
Absolute passion, I am going to like this hobbie - thanks for the tour.
Absolute passion, I am going to like this hobbie - thanks for the tour.
My pleaure-where are you based?
I was a bit bored-nowt on telly so I rattled off a few shots
I now have four species of chromis in the tank- the green
Vandervelts
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank0304080002.jpg
Black bar
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank0304080005.jpg
and Bicolour
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank0304080004.jpg
I have three of these gobies (a pair and a spare:o)
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank0304080003.jpg
Monti
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank0304080001.jpg
Never seen a black bar before, like it
Ooooh Haydn, love the gobies. They were a little lighter at Shagra though weren't they?:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Do they need a really big sand bed or do they take other food?
Sharon
Norvern Rob
03-04-08, 22:30
Hi Haydn
How did you sex the Brownbarred Gobies? From what I could find out it seems the males may have tail spots and females not, this wasn't definite though. There were 2 together when I bought mine, they both had tail spots so I only picked up one. I'll be gutted if there's another way to tell and I missed a pair!
Fantastic fish btw, mine is a brilliant worker. To answer the question above mine spends the entire day sifting sand - and also eats everything I put in!
Rob
Hi Sharon-yes much lighter, I took a photo there and ID'ed it from that-Mine eat mostly from the sand bed but suppliment it with frozen fare. The tank is going through a hair algae phase at the moment and they love it, ripping mouthfulls off the rocks and eating it.
Both fish in the pair have tail spots although the ones on the female?? (the picture I think may be a male) are less defined. I was lucky- by getting three I seem to have chanced on a pair. The pair live together in a tunnel under the bommie, the 'spare' lives on its own on the other side of the tank and is tolerated as long as it doesn't encroach onto the pairs terratory.
Rob this is the female?? as yu can see she? isn't a brightly coloured as the male and not as many spots on the tail.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank0304080006.jpg
I hope this helps
Norvern Rob
04-04-08, 22:41
Thanks Haydn - I think the 2 in the shop I got mine from were a pair, one was lighter in colour as your female appears to be, and the one I took is brighter. From what I could find out about them the spots on the tail led me to believe both were males, this seems inaccurate though!
******! :(
I went to TAC at the week end with Craig and got this:wub:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/regals003a.jpg
And guess what happened
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/regals0004a.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/regals0001.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/regals0002.jpg
HEE-HEE :applause::applause::applause::applause::dance::da nce:
:wub:
:confused:
...do you now have 3 Regals?
I am so chuffed for you, yet sooooooooo jeallous.
Nice, was it the small or larger one you introduced last?
The larger one.....the ironic thing is it was mine that I returned to the shop about 3 weeks ago after having it for 18 months.
I would have kept it but it had the odd nip at my LPS and it was daft enough to go in my trap..
Mind I'm well chuffed that its now in Haydn's tank.
CRaig
haydn (or craig) can you tell me whether the gill spines reflect what we believe to be the method for sexing?
I would expect a dominant larger angel, that had been in your tank craig for 18 months, to have developed more as a male. In all honestly, I've never seen a non paired adult female, at least as far as gill spines go.
I have a 'opportunity' to add a much larger angel to mine, but i don't need blood shed. before I do something i know i will regret, haydn, can you describe the gill spines please.
Haydn used the Gill method cant remember which way he thought this one was though.
looking at the pic i would say female.
Hopefully haydn can take a closer look and confirm where the gill pine stops. On all males that I have seen the spine extends to about 10% into the pectoral muscle. In that pic it looks like the bigger one stops a few mm shy of the pectoral muscle. Either way, I would say a fish that has lived as the dominant regal (only one) in your tank for 18 months proves that Regals are not sexually dimorphic. If all is as it appears, it shows yours was born a female and never changed.
which will make my continued hunting less of a mission.
I do seem to think Haydn decided it was a female but cant sware by it.
He will know for sure for sure.
I wish he'd hurry up and log on!!!!!
Thank god he doesn't have my mobile number, i couldn't have taken the :p call!!!!
Hi Scoob some of us have lives outside cyberspace;)
TAC had a very large regal in 6"-8" which was definatly male- looking at the gill spines on mine I would say it was female.
Maybe it isn't just being the only regal than causes the change perhaps it needs a trigger i.e. another angel. Also this fish is only 4" ish so it may not have started to mature. I'll be watching over the months to see if the smaller one becomes a male as it matures or if this becomes the male. I'll try to get a close-up of the head so you can judge for yourself.
Dave the small one has been in the tank, with another juvi, for some months but they never got on. So the large one was added, it and this juvi bonded without any aggression. The other juvi was so stressed out it hid behind one of the streams and I just had to slide a large net under it and lifted it out:) (I think I need to do the lottery this week:laugh:) and was sold to another reefer.
lives outside cyberspace he says (at 09:22 on a working day)
i would love to see those pics Haydn when you get a chance!!!!
One day I will join you, and if you get these pics up quicker, maybe i will join the ranks sooner! :laugh:
lives outside cyberspace he says (at 09:22 on a working day)
Sorry 'Working':confused::confused: That word left my vocabulary about 9 years ago:applause:
The fish is still a little nervious- i took the ones I posted with the 300mm lens from across the room, but I'll try later.
Got one- I apolgise for the quality of the piccy but the lights ain't on yet but I think it show what you need. Looking at the gill spines I would say its female.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/regals0005.jpg
WOW!!!! would you look at that!!!
it doesn't even extend past the gill.
Definately a female then, awesome!!!
How big is it roughly?
this has to prove once and for all that they can't change sex through maturity, i mean, clearly it is still a youngish fish, but if it was going to swop, surely it would ahve done so by now!!!
Haydn, I am so jeallous it is untrue. never have i wanted anything in my tnak so badly as a pair of regals. Females almost never come up. there are two stonking massive regals in STM right now, both are undoubtedly male. I will keep them peeled, you bring new hope as i now no longer 'essentially' have to look for a juvi.
thanks for your help haydn, even if i do hate you right now.
nice tank, any chance of a full tank shot
Its no bigger than 4". I don't know how big it was when Craig got it, perhaps he can remember/post an old photo??
If you look closely you can see that the pointy end of the spine is transparent, I noticed that in the big spined males? the blue goes right to the tip.
Considering them in the wild- As they mature they would need to find an area of reef to feed and live on- if there was already a male and a harem of females in occupation then being female would be an advantage assuming there was a space for a 'new' fish. It would then be able to grow in relative security protected by a large? male. I assume there would be some sort of 'pecking' order within the female ranks to keep the group stable.
Now the theory that they change during maturity assumes that all regals 'want' to be males, hold a terratory and collect a harem. This would mean that there would be numbers of bachelor male looking for a terratory holder to oust. Not a good survival stragity, i.e. until it got a terratory it is wandering and likely to get eaten.
So I would suggest- A stable family unit dominent male and a breeding female plus a number of non-breeding females (youngsters?). The male disappears and the (already) dominent female (after all it knows the area and the hiding places so is at an advantade over an outsider already) becomes a male. But it needs the trigger of the stable unit i.e. breeding ready females to trigger the change.
In the tank situation where there is only one, unless it is already fairly high on the wild heirachy there is not the same trigger so it may not change in the short term until it becomes 'large'.
Also perhaps because the males and more dominent females are bolder in the wild, the sub dominent keep out of the way to avoid being attacked by the dominent pair?? then generally one or both of the pair are collected as they are easier and the males being more aggressive and wanting to protect the female are even more easier.
To support this theory when I've dived i the red sea I have always seen regals in pairs, usually a large male? and a smaller female? I can't recall ever seeing a small (2") fish on its own. so perhaps they are deep inside the reefs living quiet lives.
top thinking Haydn, thanks for sharing.
can u pm me wit details as to how u made the cave in the back left corner?
thanks
stevo
Lukechromis
20-04-08, 16:29
Hi,
Just been reading this again. Any chance you cant tell me how much your vanderbilts were and your regals. Or PM me the price. Looks great by the way.
Thanks,
Luke
Apologies steve/luke I have only just noticed your posts :o
can u pm me wit details as to how u made the cave in the back left corner?
The cave is formed by placing LR over a 15mm glass frame standing on egg crate. The frame made using two 18" x18" side panels and siliconeing 2" by 18" strips of glass to the top, over hanging the side by 2" there are 1" gaps between the strips to aid water movement. The glass frame was placed at 45 degrees in the corner. Flat LR was drilled and using cable ties secured to the glass frame then LR was piled around the structure-I found by reducing the ‘hole’ at the front it looked better. The annoying thing is I took some pictures of this process and I can’t find them.
Luke you have a pm…….
This is the best picture i could find-You can just about see the glass support in the cave.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/cave0001.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/Tank44080001.jpg
a quick picture of my new swarm fish. I have 11 of these. I and Steve at deep blue think they are Neopomacentrus azysron (Yellow-tail demoiselle). At the moment they are peaceful and live as a group.
Espocrespo
04-05-08, 20:57
where did u get them they're beautiful
I would have thought that 'Steve at Deep Blue' may have given the game away;):D
Espocrespo
04-05-08, 22:07
oh i didnt see that whoops i just saw pic and fish name
Well the developers look as though they are going to buy the house (subject to them getting planning permission) and we will be on the move late this year/early next.
This has really put a damper on the tank restock- I just can't be bothered adding more stuff.
So I have decided to suspend the re-stock and if they fail to get PP then I'll re-start (I should have an idea if its a goer about end of August). If they do get PP then I'll be looking to break down the tank, deciding what is staying and what is going and selling it off. Then its planning the new tank -a new Phoenix! :dance: or maybe a D&D nano:p
Still under threat from the developers but I thought I would post a few update pictures.
FTS
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank106080001.jpg
The 'bommie'
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank106080002.jpg
The LHS
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank106080003.jpg
My milipora rock not bad from 3 frags
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank106080004.jpg
My regal angels
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank106080007.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank106080008.jpg
Montipora
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank106080009.jpg
Looking great, like all the firefish. How many do you have?
Thanks
Dave- I have 4, 2 pairs but they don't shoal, co-exist or have anything to do with the other pair, except to threaten each other. So unless you have a large tank don't try to keep a group.
Having said that here's a rare picture of them in the same shot -just after this one pair had a go at the other pair
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/tank106080010.jpg
Is there a way of sexing them, or is it just a case of putting them together and see if they pair?
I can't see any difference between the sexes.
I bought 5- the first thing that happened was they separated into the pairs (I suppose I was lucky to have two males and two females or it would have been a real blood bath) then they killed the 'spare' and split the tank into two territories. If one pair encroaches then they display and if there isn't any backing down they fight!!
I won't replace them when they go- They are just too much hassle.
Haydn, any new pics after your trip to Acropora House?
...or am I better off coming to see it in person ;)
Nav
Didn't get the fish nav they had a touch of WS. Just bought 4 acros. You know you are always welcome.
Espocrespo
11-06-08, 08:17
what fish you got in there, i notice at least 3 different types of chromis
i notice at least 3 different types of chromis
I am impressed young sir :worship: I have 4 different types
4xVandervelts (C.vandervelti), 2xgreen(C.Viridis), 5xblackbar (C.Retrofaciatus) and 7xchocolatedip (C.Dimidiata) , I also have a group of 10xYellow tailed damselles (Neopomacentrus Azysron). This family IMO is underrated as aquarium inhabitants, Ok I know you need to do the research and get the right kind of chromis but most of them are good, peaceful, small, tough, swarm fish, that will fit into almost any size tank. The trouble is they are usually come in to the UK as fill-in fish or as accidential imports, although they seem to be more valued on the continent and STM managed to get some for me from a european wholesaler.
Other fish in the tank:
A pair of Regal Angels (nearly!)
4 firefish (pains in the bum!)
3 black bar gobies (great sand sifters)
5 yellow tangs (algae control)
a pair of longnosed hawkfish (:wub:)
Algae Blennie (algea control)
Foxface (algae, velonia control)
I think thats it, so a 2/3rds empty tank:(. I'm after some more vandervelts and some C. Nitida..
Espocrespo
11-06-08, 15:35
look great tbh, i you haven't won tank of the month im shocked i think this tank deserves it.
No the tank isn't mature enough- give it a year or two- if the developers don't get it first:(
Woo-Hoo :dance::dance::dance:
The developers have gone away (for the time being:() and to celibrate I bought this
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/ytp0107080001.jpg
And this
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/ytp0107080002.jpg
And this
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/ytp0107080003.jpg
A FTS
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/ytp0107080004.jpg
The best shot so far of the yellow tailed damselles
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/ytp0107080005.jpg
An of course the regals:wub:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/ytp0107080006.jpg
I'm sorry for the quality of the pictures but its so difficult to get a good picture this time of year with it not getting dark till lateand the tank being in a conservatory.
But the phoenix stocking is on again:applause:
Glad to see new additions going in Haydn :)
Haydn, TMC should be fit to supply Nitida - they call them Black Bar Chromis and confuse them with retrofasciata - but they appear regularly in local shops.
I know this because I ordered retro, and they sent these things whic get too big for my needs. I envy you your retro's, BTW....
They don't appear regularly in shops in england-I know I've tried to order them from lots of shops -the latest is deep blue.
I find it interesting that you say they get too big when they are only 1/2" larger than the retros.
That's one way to celebrate.
....they look awesome, have to come over for a closer look :whistling:
Reef bloke
02-07-08, 10:47
Superb,taking shape nicely.The fish are out of this world,corals are starting to grow in too.
They don't appear regularly in shops in england-I know I've tried to order them from lots of shops -the latest is deep blue.
I find it interesting that you say they get too big when they are only 1/2" larger than the retros.
I had read that they get to around 3". Too big for me as I wanted an aggregation and the Retro's were perfect as they get little bigger than an inch
Hmm, the plot thickens - you're right Haydn, there isn't as much difference as I originally thought.
Well it never rains but it pours- Got a phone call from a lfs in Leicester saying they had 8 vandervelts chromis in:dance: so a quick trip later and they are mine- all mine:D. They look super swimming with the others I'll get some pictures as soon as they settle. Bring on the Nitida................
Madoktopus
01-08-08, 19:56
hi, have been following your thread but havnt posted yet. any chance of an update its been a month? and secondly is that heliopora in the FTS on the right hand side forming a column structure?
Give me a day or so-I may have something new to photograph:fear:
Yes it is heliopora-I try to get some pictures of it.
Monthly update
FTS
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/aug080005.jpg
Heliopora- this has grown from a small colony over a year or so- the columns are about 6"-9"
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/aug080003.jpg
Millipora- this rock is 30" high the milli grew from 4x 4" frags and has colonised the whole rock!
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/aug080006.jpg
My noobies
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/aug080004.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/aug080001.jpg
With huge thanks to Steve at Deep blue and TMC.
Oh just in case you don't know they are Barrier reef chromis (Chromis Nitida) and I have 10 of the beauties:wub::wub:
Thanks Dorge- re your previous post the nitida are larger and bulkier than the retros- they seem to be imported as bigger fish.
That's what put me off - when I saw them in the shop, they were massive by comparison and my tank's only wee :o
What a great thread...wow Haydn,really admire peoplle like you,what an inspiration..:worship:....thats fantastic...what a fantastic fishy home:wub:
Thanks for sharing that with us....Jules x
Tanks looking great Haydn, love the Chromis haven't seen thoose before.
very nice, love the chromis!
The chromis are an Australian species (the name barrier reef chromis rather gives that away:laugh:). I understand it is fairly common in ozzy reef tanks (a bit like green chromis here).
Because they are low value fish and the cost of exporting to the UK may mean importers think they are not worth it and they may get stuck with them at the price they need to charge. They seem to be available in Europe and LFS who get stock from there may be able to source them.
So they usually come in as 'box fillers' or 'accidental' imports but for reefkeepers who want a different peaceful pretty and hardy chromis (and a change from the usual green) they are a good find. The only downside is they seem to be imported at a larger size than the other chromis although this may be due to 'rarity' rather than design.
rusty reefer
09-08-08, 12:56
So is that 4 diff types you got in there now???
5
Blackbar (retrofaciatus) (5 of)
Vandervelt (12 of)
Barried reef (nitida) (10 of)
Green (2 of)
white tailed (margeneta) (7 of)
+ Neopomacentrus Cystus (yellow tailed damselle) (10 of)
rusty reefer
09-08-08, 15:19
Sweet, are there any more sorts your after or you got them all lol
According to Scott Micheal there are 75 known species of chromis + others as yet unidentified.
Many of them get IMO too big to keep as a group in my tank i.e. caribbean Blue (Chromis cyanea) a stunning fish but at some 5" and at the recommended 6+ per group they take up too much fish space.
The major problem is (like anthias) they are a large and varied group with differing personalities, and a single specis (the green) have, like squammies for anthias, become the species type and the assumption is they are all have similar habits. You need to do a fair amount of research before buying, especially as some species look very similar. Get the wrong ones and you have a major problem!!!:eek:
However there are one or two species I would like, so watch this space:fear:
Haydn, have'nt finished reading the thread yet but wanted to ask :-
How have you found the pair of Hawkfish and your Shrimps ? :D
It's been a while since I up dated here, mainly because I've been busy and the tank has been slowly maturing.
I found this in a LFS who does not normally do SPS- it came in as a turbinaria (sp?)-it was in a tank with a number of others under T5 compacts for 3-4 months and I only noticed it when most of the turbinarias had been sold.
I am 90% sure its an Acro Efflo unless you know better:o
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/efflo0001.JPG
this I'm not sure about it was labled as a Hydnaphora (Sp again?) but the skeleton looks wrong.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/hyd0001.JPG
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/hyd0002.JPG
All suggestions welcome
I was correct about the firefish they don't shoal, I have two pairs and one dead one (harried to death by the others)
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/firefish0001.JPG
And finally I found these:wub: in a LFS today Just couldn't resist them I know they will devistate the pod population but look at them:wub: :wub:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/hawk fish0001.JPG
They are shy at the moment but they act like a true pair-sitting together and showing to each other as a 'greeting'.
Then stock list is 100 turbos, 25 peppermint shrimps, 4 firefish, 2 longnose hawks, 2 green cromis, mntipora coral frags, hydnaphora??, efflo and gorgonian, plus some zoas which survived the freshwater dip, pressure wash and drying!!!!!
I hope you dont mind Haydn ive another one for you, I might of got it wrong but didnt you buy the Longnose Hawkfish as a pair ? Are there any distinguishing ways of sexing them ? Ive got one in my tank, would like to be able to sex it if possible. Thanks mate :D
The hawks were bought as a pair- adding another one to an already established fish can be a problem.
Sexual differences are subtle my female is 'heaver' than the male. My male has more black on his dorsal and black edging on the tail fin
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q3/hawks080801.jpg
This is the female as you can see there are no black markings on the dorsal or tail
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q3/hawks080802.jpg
The male is the fish on the right (sorry its the best picture I have with its dorsal up) I think you can just make out black 'lines' running through the dorsal and if you compare it with the females dorsal it is more obvious. The male also has black on the tail but its not easy to see it in this picture.
My pair behave with the shrimps but will decimate the pod population.
i don't meen to bump a old thread but is there any updates at all? or just more pics, i think this tank is amazing and a really nice change to see lots of little fish instead of quite a few big ones! thanks Bill
:worship::worship::worship::worship::worship::wors hip:More pics more pics more pics!! :D The tank looks absolutely cracking ! Hadyn! I'd love a tank like that... green with envy!
I didnt tink longnose hawks were compatible with shrimps... sorry for the dumb question... in large tanks are they OK together then?
Pomacanthus
15-09-08, 17:44
An amazing tank, love the Regals :wub:
It's been a while so I'll bore you with some update pictures
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/oct0801.jpg
FTS- The corals are filling out nicely (although there is still lots of space;)) The hydaphora on the left is growing well as is the Millipora at the back, not bad from 4 frags:). The emperor tangs have been sold on (they were getting too big and were dominating the yellows).
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/oct0802.jpg
Left side
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/oct0803.jpg
'Bommie'
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/oct0804.jpg
a new 'table' acro I wish I could get the blue tips to show up.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/oct0805.jpg
Pink hystix frag (thanks Suk)
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/oct0806.jpg
Growing nicely
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/oct0807.jpg
The larger of the two Regals:wub:-It is starting to dominate the smaller one and if you look back at my original pictures you can see the gill spine has grown and turned blue-I think this one is/has become a male:dance:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/oct0808.jpg
The smaller regal:wub:-still has some colouration of a juvi but it is becoming a sub-adult, note the gill spines are small and colourless-so hopefully it will stay a female.
Here's a picture of the larger regal taken on the 9/4/08 note the gill spines-very small and colourless
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/regals0005.jpg
This picture is of the same fish taken this month and as you can see the spines have lengthened and have turned blue.
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/oct0807.jpg
If you followed the discussions around page 17 of the thread this would suggest that it has become a male. The smaller regal has tiny, colourless spines like this fish had when I first got it. So hopefully in awhile I may see spawning activity.
do your regals nip at the corals?
do your regals nip at the corals?
Thats an interesting question- They minutely examine the SPS, swimming closely to each branch and may pick something off one of the branches. I have examined the area where they pick with a magnifying glass but I can't see any damage and the coral polyps haven't retracted. This is leading me to assume they are picking at something external to the coral polyps, whether this is mucus, a pod, flatworm, coral poo or something else I don't know (I can't see anything on the coral).
The larger one came from Craigg because it was nipping his LPS (i don't have any LPS) and the smaller one has the occational nip at a colony of zoas in the tank. But overall they seem to be pretty safe.
About a month ago I went to see Nav's tank and he gave me some frags. One was a tiny bit seriatapora (1/4"), when I was putting them into my tank I dropped the frag into the tank and thought 'ahh well' . anyway a month or so later this appeared
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/seri101.jpg
It is nearly 1" high. Not all that remarkable I hear you say.:rolleyes:
Until I pull back
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/seri201.jpg
It is growing 9" from the output of a 6200-20,000ltrs/hr on constantly!! It is in the full blast. How it managed to stay there and fix itself to the rock I just don't know.
On another tack- isn't love wonderful:wub:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/hawk01.jpg
Haydn, i would post how Amazing it is that the frag managed to fix itself / grow / and withstand the output from that monster.
But you know what mate ?..................... Im not gonna bother.
Due to fact you just couldn't resist sticking up a photo of your Pair of Longnose Hawkfish and kicking off my Jealousy Thang ALL over again. Why'd you have to do it Hadyn ? :p
:laugh::laugh:
I'll put up a few more later
I'll put up a few more later
.....any new purchases :whistling: ?
my son let me borrow his new nikon d300 so...............
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30003.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30002.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30001.jpg
The male regal:wub:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30004.jpg
The Juvi now female:wub:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30005.jpg
I guess this is what you mean Nav I have 4 of them-Tiny ain't they Darren
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30006.jpg
Baby Convict Tangs:wub:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30007.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30008.jpg
The seri's frags growing Suk:dance:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30009.jpg
The big boy all 18" of him
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30010.jpg
A couple for furface
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30011.jpg
Their favorite perching place the hydnophora
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30012.jpg
The millipora is growing like topsy
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30013.jpg
As is the turbinaria
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30014.jpg
I have got to get me a D300
That looks like you dropped a Cucumber in your tank, excuse my ignorance but is that a a Sea Cucumber (the big boy):confused:
I guess this is what you mean Nav I have 4 of them-Tiny ain't they Darren
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/nikon30006.jpg
:wub::wub:
PS Tank is looking good :thumbsup:
Once agin... WOW! stunning mate!
Yes- its a black cucumber, can be a bit dodgy if they die traumatically, as in wipe out the tank!!
Yeah I was thinking that and with 1 that size it would probably be catastrophic!!!!
Still great tank and corals, love the ickle fishes.
:thumbsup:
Loving them, Haydn - one of the LFS has one at the mo and it was all I could do not to get it bagged up and brought home...
It has been a while so a few updates.
FTS
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310901.jpg
RHS
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310902.jpg
The 'bommie'
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310903.jpg
A few random shot of corals
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310905.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310906.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310907.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310908.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310909.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310910.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310911.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310912.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310913.jpg
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310914.jpg
Finally remember that little seri frag from reply 232
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2009Q1/tank 310904.jpg
Coming along very nicely, love the yellows all in a line :)
:worship: wow! :worship: it looks awesome!
Looking great Haydn :thumbsup: love the bommie really gives a sense of depth.
The red algae on your rocks, is that red turf algae? I have some in my tank and the tangs love it and keep it like a well kept lawn.
The red algae on your rocks, is that red turf algae? I have some in my tank and the tangs love it and keep it like a well kept lawn.
Yes-it doesn't seem invasive, my tangs also love it and it means I don't need to mess about with nori. The convicts are like little barrels great as they are not as agressive feeders as the yellows and the foxface.
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