Gorgonia Help Please

[goslayer]

Hi,
I have had my Gorgonia for about 4 months when I got it, it looked like this:D

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/gorg1.jpg

I had it in the main stream of a power head which might not have been such a good idea,:( I replaced my power heads about 6 weeks ago with 2 tunze 6101 streams which gives a much better flow around the tank, however my Gorg looks like this now and has done for a while, I had hoped that the problem was the direct flow onto it, but it doesn't seem to be getting any better


http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2007Q2/Gorg2.JPG

Sorry about picture 2 but it's the best I can get at the moment.

Has anyone got any ideas what I can do to save the Gorg?

Thanks

[Shultz]

Its not being fed enough and/or the right type(s) of food..... Having it in direct flow would have stopped it feeding anyways!

If what polyps are left are out thats a good sign as atleast its trying to feed.... What do you add to the tank to feed it? How often?

Cheers, Shelton.

[Cranners]

Do you feed the gorg at all?

Not sure what the species would be but it may well be a species which isnt photosynthetic so needs regular feeding

So as a suggestion maybe you could try to get it to feed on zooplankton etc hopefully it will take this up and maybe it will start to recover.... though these gorgs arent easy to maintain and so maybe it wont recover....

others on here will also be able to advise better than me


J

[rich_tilbury]

Sorry to give you bad news but it is in the last throws of starving to death.

In the first picture you can see that the base isn't encursted, so it is likely that the animal was starved then too. Gorgonia seem to recede base upwards when they die back (IME).

The species at a guess is non-photosynthetic, so would need to be fed frequently during the day with brine shimp eggs, rotifers, maybe phytoplankton, but mostly meaty particulate feeds and also might do better in a tank with a higher load of bacteria such as one being fed with FM products etc. The caveat is that keeping them alive is very very difficult at the moment. Keeping gorgonia happy may upset other corals as you end up feeding a lot more than is good for a low nutrient tank!

As for flow, the flow needs to be brisk and if possible not random. Something like 5cm a second, but it depends on the species and shape, so this is guess work on the part of the keeper!

I've had mixed results with gorgonia and if you are looking for a replacement try and get one of the purple frilly/ bipinnate types which are photosynthetic and easier to keep.

HTH

[goslayer]

Thanks for your response.
I am using the ULNS so add as little as possible really, I do add Cyclopese and FM Ultra-fan every couple of days or so.

What foods would you recommend?

Thanks



Its not being fed enough and/or the right type(s) of food..... Having it in direct flow would have stopped it feeding anyways!

If what polyps are left are out thats a good sign as atleast its trying to feed.... What do you add to the tank to feed it? How often?

Cheers, Shelton.

[Shultz]

BTW from the slightly fuzzy pics I would say it looks like a Guaiagorgia Sp. to me?

Cheers, Shelton.

[goslayer]

Hi, Thanks

Do you think all hope is lost or could I recover it?:(




Sorry to give you bad news but it is in the last throws of starving to death.

In the first picture you can see that the base isn't encursted, so it is likely that the animal was starved then too. Gorgonia seem to recede base upwards when they die back (IME).

The species at a guess is non-photosynthetic, so would need to be fed frequently during the day with brine shimp eggs, rotifers, maybe phytoplankton, but mostly meaty particulate feeds and also might do better in a tank with a higher load of bacteria such as one being fed with FM products etc. The caveat is that keeping them alive is very very difficult at the moment. Keeping gorgonia happy may upset other corals as you end up feeding a lot more than is good for a low nutrient tank!

As for flow, the flow needs to be brisk and if possible not random. Something like 5cm a second, but it depends on the species and shape, so this is guess work on the part of the keeper!

I've had mixed results with gorgonia and if you are looking for a replacement try and get one of the purple frilly/ bipinnate types which are photosynthetic and easier to keep.

HTH

[Shultz]

Thanks for your response.
I am using the ULNS so add as little as possible really, I do add Cyclopese and FM Ultra-fan every couple of days or so.

What foods would you recommend?

Thanks

I'm afraid this is the "fun" about trying to keep these corals, they require good water quality to stop algae build ups which kill them, but they also require quite heavily feedings throughout the day if possible.

I make a mix up of about 8-10 different foods, which I feed a few times a day, very difficult to keep low Nitrates & zero phosphates as well though! :eek:

What other corals do you have? The best chance you have with these is if you go for a tank dedicated to them so you aren't overfeeding others etc?

It is possible if you target feed it over a period of time you could pull it back around, but watch your Nitrates & Phosphates!

I live not far from you in Lowestoft, I do come over to a well known shop in Norwich every couple of weeks or you could visit me here if you want to talk in more detail??

Cheers, Shelton.

[rich_tilbury]

Shelton has it covered. Gorgonia and ULNS aren't a happy match! :)

[goslayer]

Thanks:cry:

I'll do my best to keep him going.:(

[KeithM]

Hi Goslayer, thanks for the PM

I think everyone has pretty much covered everything...but in summary..

1. Your gorg is on its way out. I'm afriad there is very little chance that it will survive, the damage is just too much.

2. You have essentially starved your coral, stripped the flesh with too much flow or a combination of the two. Seeing that the polyps are out i'm leaning more towards starvation.

3. using zeo based systems is compatible with gorgs and similar corals but you must feed heavily. ULNS does not necessarily mean little to no feeding. That is the users choice.

4. Heavy feeding, multiple times a day, is essential!...and therefore you need very heavily filtration to keep water quality up.

[goslayer]

Thanks for getting back to me,

So I can try and revive this one or stop a new one from starving, what food/foods do you use on yours and how often to you feed?

Thanks


Hi Goslayer, thanks for the PM

I think everyone has pretty much covered everything...but in summary..

1. Your gorg is on its way out. I'm afriad there is very little chance that it will survive, the damage is just too much.

2. You have essentially starved your coral, stripped the flesh with too much flow or a combination of the two. Seeing that the polyps are out i'm leaning more towards starvation.

3. using zeo based systems is compatible with gorgs and similar corals but you must feed heavily. ULNS does not necessarily mean little to no feeding. That is the users choice.

4. Heavy feeding, multiple times a day, is essential!...and therefore you need very heavily filtration to keep water quality up.

[Cranners]

Again - thanks for the pm

If you would like an easier species to keep I have two species which are photosynthetic - but also like to eat passing food such as cyclopeze etc

I have a few frags coming off my Pseudopterogorgia bipinnata I would be happy to send you a branching frag of this if you would like postage would be £5 with a few quid for packaging etc. I also have a Muricea which hasnt grown on enough to frag yet but you can have a piece of that too.

I am planning a system in the new year which I hope to grow more gorgs, neph, and maybe other soft coral species which require feeding.....


J

[KeithM]

I have moved this thread to the Azoox coral forum

goslayer, I have a peri pump that feeds a mix of slime and particle food 10x a day, I also have an autofeeder that dumps alot of particle foods into the tank 3x a day.

[Cranners]

Keith - how do you produce or provide the 'slime food'?

J

[KeithM]

The slime food is mainly for the Dendronephthya but there are lots of particles in the slime food which will provide some nutrition for the seafans.

I use a mix of products from Fauna Marin to produce the slime but the main product is Ultrapac. FYI - Ultrapac can't really be used on its own as its mostly just a carrier.

[goslayer]

Found this on the FM site.

HTH

Ultra Pac is a special Polymer for the production of artificial coral mucus. This polymer was specially formulated for marine aquaria to bind food particles and to transport them directly to the corals. Like in Nature, the mucus will be trapped by the corals and eaten. Through this product it is finally possible to keep species that were considered impossible before. Ultra Pac is another part of our Ultra-Food product line for non-photosynthetic soft corals and sensitive filter feeders.

Dosing recommendation:

Standard recipe with Ultra-Pac
20 % Ultra-Pac
30 % Ultra-Life
50 % Ultra Clam


Mix all the ingredients together with Ultramin S until you have a stiff mash.
Add one drop of Ultra Booster for every 40 ml of food mix and a total of one Ampoule of Ultra-Bio. Mix everything together and let the food sit for 24 hours at room temperature.
The mix can be used now. It is normal that the skimmer stops foaming for about 2 hours after dosing this food. The food keeps for about a week at room temperature. Depending on the number and size of specimen kept, add a tip of a teaspoon as small amount of food several times per day.
We are happy to advise you in any questions regarding dosing and handling of our products. please contact us.

[dendro982RC]

goslayer:
Do you know, what kind of gorgonia this is, by any chance?
You can take a look at this page for ID: http://www.meerwasser-lexikon.de/fr/67/0/0/liste_gorgones.htm (http://www.meerwasser-lexikon.de/eng/67/0/0/liste_Sea%20Fans.htm). In case, if translation is needed, there are Google Language tools. You likely know all of this.

I don't have this particular kind of gorgonia, but have for a few months more thin branched, also with fine blue polyps, could be Guaiagorgia or blue Menella, non-photosynthetic.

What you may try (but don't blame me, if this not helps ;) ):
- frag alive parts. At least one piece, for experiment.
- place it in a high flow (polyps may become slightly bend, but not too much), but low light or no light place.
- if the tank filtration allows, feed a lot, small portions for a prolonged time. 4 times daily at least (what I'm doing), could be morning after wake up, morning before going to work or study, after return, after supper, and before retiring for the night.
- if not, you may try to target feed - pipette with flow off, hutch (half-cut bottle with airline tubing it the cap), there are different ways.
- size of food: take a close food at polyps mouthes (4+ eyeglasses from dollar store or digital camera in macro mode). The food should be able to fit the mouth. Compare with the size of food, you have. I'm giving to fine-polyped gorgonians rotifers, decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, ZoPlan, cyclops. Any other zooplankton of the 100-180 micron should be fine (I'm guessing here, see the mouth size of yours), Golden Pearls, Oyster eggs, Fauna Marin products as a high end.
- now the bad part: some of non-photosynthetic gorgonians are prone to be covered by algae, my blue too. Others, like Swiftia, Diodogorgia or Menella - not. You will see by yourself. Lack of light and reduced sediment on branches may help. I'm fighting with this too.

Good luck!

[goslayer]

Thanks dendro982RC for you detailed response.

I have been feeding it 2-3 times a day and I think it's starting to come back, when it looks a bit better I will put up some pictures.

Thanks to all the have helped.:thumbsup:

[dendro982RC]

Glad to be able to help - I was in the same situation not so long time ago too ;)