Chili coral - questions for a keepers [Archive]

dendro982RC

10-01-08, 13:55

ChrisBFish

10-01-08, 18:48

Hi, I have different chili corals, the oldest, vertical shaped, is almost 2 yrs old.
Looking for the input from the keepers, how to improve my practices (experiences, not assumptions or quotations. No, I'm not nasty, just looking for particular kind of information :rolleyes: ).
Not sure I can help much, but I'll start...

- Does anyone has this coral growing (new branches, not day-night expansion)?
We've had ours for about 14 months now. I think it's grown a bit in that time, but it's difficult to know as it's now hard to see most of it as it's in a cave.

- Just enough and sufficient feedings (what and frequency, what results)? I had read ( steve-s (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43434)) that 2x a week feeding is sufficient, but was it actual experience or assumption - who knows... I could overfeed them, making water quality worse.
We've fed ours intermittently, primarily with oyster eggs as most other things we've got are simply too big. I'm not sure it made any difference to it's wellbeing, and wasn't too great for the water quality. Now we very rarely feed it at all - it's in a tank with lots of micro life though, and seems to be the happiest(!) I've ever seen it on a regular basis, so I can only assume it's getting enough food.

- Did everybody's chilis become dormant/hybernating or not?
I assume you're asking about periods when it just doesn't expand and open up its polyps. If so, yes, definitley. With ours, water quality is a major factor. If NO4 > 5ppm or so, then it stops opening. The longest period it's been dormant for is probably 2-3 months. We weren't sure it was still alive, but it wasn't disintegrating or looking particularly bad, so left it alone, and eventually it started opening up again. That was about a year ago, I think.

- What temperature worked for you the best?
The tank it's now in is at about 27c/ 81f

HTH! :)

designsonline.co.uk

10-01-08, 19:24

Ive had mine for about 4 months or so, it only seems to open at night, which is a shame as they are beautiful when the polps are out...
I dont target feed mine as in a big bow front I have limited access to the tank. Ive not noticed any growth, but I havent really had them that long.
Joe

marshalls2007

10-01-08, 19:40

same hee mate....looks like a lump of red snot during the day..
but then a different story of i night:confused:

dendro982RC

11-01-08, 14:05

Thank you, very informative!
But I would like to hear form you even more: the amount of food the tank is receiving, how frequently. Generally looking for reducing frequency of feeding, and do not have sufficient microlife in my tank, unfortunately.

Any observation or tips for a better keeping?
What kinds are you keeping, their origin, if possible (tropical Indo-Pacific, or Mediterranean, or cold water species), any difference in requirements?
Again, temperature, who didn't posted it.

Any knowledge of classification? I had seen both: chili and a colt coral, named Alcyonium. The other names for the chilis were Nephthyigorgia, Carotalcyon sagamianum and elegans, all as a current and not outdated names. More - in the next post.

I have 4 different kinds:
vertical, cold red, large whitish polyps, the oldest:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Soft%20corals/chilioldMar18_06.jpg
All others are plain red, small pinkish polyps:
- palmatum kind:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Soft%20corals/ChiliMay1better.jpg
- digitatum kind, mini, less the pinkie finger thick, refuses to be attached, both the same:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Soft%20corals/chili3Dec10.jpg
- And the really large one, contracted for a long time now, but looks healthy:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Diodogorgia%20gorgonian/Jun28_07side.jpg

All have different time for opening in a dim lit room, tank has no own light.

BTW, flow is rotational, right to the left, reflected from the glass, ~260 gph / 1000 l/hr in 6 g tank, or >40x tank volume turnover per hour. Tried less and more - more depends on the tank conditions, then on particular intensity of flow. Had them near Seio 620 (600 gph or 2300 l/hr), not helped.

Do they shed the skin or no? I have an impression, that this is the bacterial film in case of insufficient flow - the same was on tubing and gorgonians.

Ah, and tanks temperature of mine is 76-78F, up to 82.7F in the summer. Once had long power failure, temperature dropped to ~73F - only one chili remain open. 24-25.5C, up to 27.6 in summer, drop to 22C.

Another thing: it seems, that they will need some pigmented food, in addition to cyclop eeze - after a prolonged time they look watery:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/smJul20_07.jpg
Or something for developing more spicules? I have a decent Ca level.

Well, your turn - anything what comes in mind and possible solutions.
Thanks.

marshalls2007

11-01-08, 14:17

only open at night,
yellow polyps,
temp steady 25-25.5'c
cal 400-450,
mag 1290-1320
sg 1.026
n03 10
p04 0
never feed it
doesnt have much flow, just the norm
lighting is on from 13:30-22:30

i think that covers it:D

marshalls2007

11-01-08, 16:20

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee176/marshalls2007/DSCF0369.jpg

ChrisBFish

11-01-08, 16:38

Thank you, very informative!
But I would like to hear form you even more: the amount of food the tank is receiving, how frequently. Generally looking for reducing frequency of feeding, and do not have sufficient microlife in my tank, unfortunately.

Any observation or tips for a better keeping?
What kinds are you keeping, their origin, if possible (tropical Indo-Pacific, or Mediterranean, or cold water species), any difference in requirements?
Again, temperature, who didn't posted it.

Any knowledge of classification? I had seen both: chili and a colt coral, named Alcyonium. The other names for the chilis were Nephthyigorgia, Carotalcyon sagamianum and elegans, all as a current and not outdated names. More - in the next post.

Do they shed the skin or no? I have an impression, that this is the bacterial film in case of insufficient flow - the same was on tubing and gorgonians.

Another thing: it seems, that they will need some pigmented food, in addition to cyclop eeze - after a prolonged time they look watery:

Or something for developing more spicules? I have a decent Ca level.

Well, your turn - anything what comes in mind and possible solutions.
Thanks.

Ours is definitely tropical - as far as we've been able to establish it's a nephthyigorgia. Like most other people's, it only normally opens up its polyps at night. Feeding - the tank is 36x16x16 inches, and has 2 bluestripe pipefish, 1 banded pipefish (doryrhampus dactilyophus or something like that - from memory!), 1 gold banded pipefish (d. multiannulatus or something!), and 1 banggai cardinal. They get a small squirt of frozen food (mix of mysis, brineshrimp and other stuff) a couple of times a day - sorry I can't be any more scientific than that! It's far less than half a cube of frozen, anyway, per day.

As far as I know nephthyigorgia don't shed any skin - I've certainly never noticed anything like that happening, and it doesn't feel as though it has the same sort of mucus coating that some other corals regularly shed.

I've realised that I haven't said anything about its position other than that it's in a cave (to prevent algal growth) - it's hanging upside down, as this seems to be a definite preference for ours.

Cheers

Chris

marshalls2007

11-01-08, 16:45

hmmmm, i might try the upside down position:whistling:

tbh i think it looks better that way as otherwise it's all "floppy" in the day time...

plus it would be good in the shade as mine tends to get a touch of algae on it..

why is this?

dendro982RC

12-01-08, 11:15

Thanks again, continue, please.

And photos, open, if possible, closed - if not, and a link to the closest image on the web (you can find them through Image search for Chili coral or Latin name).
All my photos were made in the daytime, have a movable lamp with 18-24W PC bulb, 50-50 actinic:10,000K (hood from Nano-Cube, 6 or 12).
If the shooting is finished within 3-4 min, the chili remains open.

Any useful links, you found, including ID.

marshalls2007, can you add:
- what food the tank receives (amount and frequency),
- flow (turnover rate, tank volume x times per hour),
- what filtration are you using,
- tank size;
- light;
- for how long are you keeping it (for a record, how long chili is able to live in such tank),
- did it had period of being contracted, without opening for a feeding, for a months; at the beginning or not, repeatedly in the same time of the year or not;
- are you using natural salt water, RO/DI with artificial salt mix (which one most of the time), or the same on tap water?

Hopefully, I'm not giving you a headache ;)

ChrisBFish: Thanks for detailed answers, I'm trying to get the whole picture of their preferences and tolerances.
Can you add as much as possible, from the list above?
As I understand, this is pipefish tank, low flow, lower temperature - as for seahorses.

designsonline.co.uk: if you are reading this - the same, as much as possible, trying to get the whole picture. Thanks.

I'll prepare the numbers for my tanks, and pictures about hanging upside down and layer of debris on the surface, will post very soon.
:thanks:

dendro982RC

12-01-08, 16:49

My tanks numbers:
in unlit tank each kind opens in own time, for a long hours;
white and pinkish polyps, tropical, diff. kinds behave differently;
temp steady 24 and 25.5C (diff. tanks), summer heat - up to 28C, min ever - 22C.
Ca: 400-420 mg/l
Mg: 1250-1285 mg/l
SG: 1.026
NO3: 5 to 80 mg/l (limits ever, in diff tanks; usual - 10-40, diff tanks)
PO4: 0-1 mg/l (limits, diff tanks, diff time, usual 0 - 0.25, diff tanks)
Food: ~8x day feeding, pinch each time. CyclopEeze, ZoPlan, sm. particles from frozen cubes, now frozen rotifers, baby brine, cyclops, decaps. brine shrimp eggs.
Flow - up to 40x tank volume/hr, sideway.
Lighting: no light was best, max was 110W PC 90g (342l) - deepwater fish tank.
Tanks with low floating particulate matter (debris) were the best - less sediment on coral, less algae growth.
Filtration: daily changed finest micron sock (fair guess 25 mk), skimmer and biomedia after mechanical filtration - were the best. PO4 remover helps (any available), 3-4x more, than usual, LR or biomedia - too (better opening, don't ask me why :D )
Tanks size, all are with sumps to hold hardware and biomedia: 5, 6, 90g or 19, 23, 342 l.
Timing, starting from: Feb06 vertical, Apr06 palmatum (with suns), Dec06 digitatum (mini), May07 biggest.
Dormancy, or long time closing without feeding: everyone, for few months, not repeated in the same season next year.
Water: tap water (Toronto) with Seachem Prime conditioner, salts: mostly Instant Ocean (with raised Mg and Ca by R. Holmes-Farley) and Red Sea, tried also: Kent, Oceanic, Reef Crystals, Tropic Marin Pro Reef - prefer the last. Additives - dry Seachem's.
Positioning: in strong reflected (diffused) flow, up to slightly bending polyps, with flow around.
Hanging upside down created problems.

Illustrations:
in 90g/ 342 l low light tank:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Soft%20corals/Chili%20coral/Dec06_0690g.jpg
PHs are Seio 620.

Hanging upside down created problems:
- Vertical - stopped opening, and later preferred vertical position (better opening)
- palmatum kind w suns - always was vertical,
- digitatum mini kind - impossible keep hanged: it has almost fluid behaviour, leaving substrate and attaching, where it likes. The only possible way was saddle-bags like:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Soft%20corals/Chili%20coral/may04_07smallroots2.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Soft%20corals/Chili%20coral/jan08_08all3sm.jpg

- the biggest was hanged because lack of space, tried to use all 3D, and it inflated each time in a new direction:
soon after hanging:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Soft%20corals/Chili%20coral/jun28_07hangthick.jpg
1 month later:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Soft%20corals/Chili%20coral/aug02_07elong.jpg
3 months since was hanged upside down:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Soft%20corals/Chili%20coral/sep20_07sags.jpg
Now had grown suction rootlets (?) and attached itself to the bottom.

designsonline.co.uk

12-01-08, 19:54

Hi Sorry, I dont have any photos of them at the moment, I may be able to take some at some point, but I dont really have the time at the moment...

- what food the tank receives (amount and frequency),
Mostly just marine flake with dried shrimp mixed in, and Nori, occatioally a bit of coral vibrance, but very very rarely. I do regularly blast the rocks and this throws the "dust" on them up in to thwe water which the LPS and filter feeders seem to like.

- flow (turnover rate, tank volume x times per hour), 2 x Tunze 6201 Streams (20'000 litres and hour each) 1 x 6100, plus a modded Maxijet 1200 and also a 2500 ocean runner, and an Eden powerhead, and my main sump return is 7000 litres per hour.

- what filtration are you using, Live Rock, sand bed in the tank, 2 skimmers (an AM 5000 Shorty and a Deltec Turbo Skimmer 1250) and I have just added Zeolith stones to the sump.

- tank size; 5 foot bowfront 2.5 foot deep, 2 foot front to back , with a 3 ft sump

- light; 2 x 250 w halaides , and a 150 halaide, and 2 x 55w T5 actnic Plus Plus tubes on main tank. (Soon to be upgraded to 3 x 250w halaides digital electronic ballast luminarcs)

- for how long are you keeping it (for a record, how long chili is able to live in such tank), as stated before only about 4 months or so

- did it had period of being contracted, without opening for a feeding, for a months; at the beginning or not, repeatedly in the same time of the year or not; Havent noticed that..

- are you using natural salt water, RO/DI with artificial salt mix (which one most of the time), or the same on tap water? In the summer I use NSW, durring the winter artificial salt mix, always with RO polished with DI, never used tap water.

:thanks:

jacksok

13-01-08, 07:48

Hi there, I have two chilli cactus corals (Nephthyigorgia spp). Bought the first in January 2005, the second a month or two after. So they are around 3 years old now.

http://thereef.info/white%20polyp%20chilli%20cactus.jpg

http://thereef.info/small%20white%20polyp%20chilli%20cactus.jpg

Very tempramental, will sulk for months at the slightest excuse (as mine are currently doing as I've just moved them to a new tank). Feed a mix of particulate foods - I've seen the polyps catch quite large particles of Golden Pearls (up to 800-1000 micron).

They were kept in a dedicated, unlit filter feeder tank until recently. That tank was part of a much larger 1200 litre system so I could get away with comparatively heavy feeding. Moved them to the main tank as there was an overhang I wanted to try and fill.

HTH

Keith

dendro982RC

13-01-08, 14:17

:thumbsup: Thank you, very helpful!

If and when you can, post, please, pictures of the whole coral shape - to know how variable they can be, and closeups of anything interesting, you had seen with them in your tanks. Full tank (or where the chilis are) shots.

Can you add water temperature and extremities, they tolerated in your tanks? Who has not tropical species, too.

And your opinions about their minimal requirements: flow, frequency and amount of feeding, and so on.
I clearly am giving too much, will reduce.

jacksok:
Can you add amount and frequency of feeding, what food (variety) you are giving, in how high flow they are, tank temperature?
I really want to keep mine alive, but make the system reasonable.
Is it normal, when they inflated, that sclerites are quite apart, or this is some feeding deficiency?
Anything interesting from their life too.
Thanks.

ChrisBFish

14-01-08, 22:18

Thanks again, continue, please.

And photos, open, if possible, closed - if not, and a link to the closest image on the web (you can find them through Image search for Chili coral or Latin name).

recent photo of it open at night. Terrible pic as I ended up using a torch to try and get just enough light for the picture, but not enough to disturb the rest of the tank!
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g93/ChrisBFish/IMG_1434a.jpg

various older open-ish pictures - these don't show the polyps fully open; at the moment I can't find a good pic of that...

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g93/ChrisBFish/PICT2236.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g93/ChrisBFish/PICT2080.jpg

closed (just after we got it, which is why it's standing up. Haven't taken a 'closed' photo of it since!):
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g93/ChrisBFish/PICT2075.jpg

ChrisBFish: Thanks for detailed answers, I'm trying to get the whole picture of their preferences and tolerances.
Can you add as much as possible, from the list above?
As I understand, this is pipefish tank, low flow, lower temperature - as for seahorses.

It's a lower flow, but still tropical temperature as they're tropical pipefish. I can't remember what it's running at now, but think I posted it earlier - probably about 27C. I'm not sure what the flow is, but would guess it's about 10x tank volume per hour. Can't remember the tank volume or the pumps that are in there right now, and all the lights are off as normal by the time I get to the computer! :)

Tank is 36"x16"x16"; it's been set up (in various ways) for about a year, I think - possibly slightly less. For most of that time the lighting was 2 white and 1 blue T8 bulbs. A couple of months ago we changed that to 4x39w t5s (2 blue, 2 white).

The water is RO/DI, and we use Tropic Marin Pro-Reef (have never used any other salt).

HTH

dendro982RC

15-01-08, 14:56

Thank you so much! I really would like such information coming from other keepers too - big help for evaluating and adjusting own practices.

dacmirc

01-02-08, 13:36

Hi i have a red chilli coral. Id just like to ask do they burn under metal halides? I bought mine around 5 month ago and it has grown massive in very little time. When i first purchased it it would only come out at night. I keep it in a very open cave due to the size of it. I will post some pics next weekend. I have recently added a maxi jet 750 pointing directly at the red chili coral and now it comes out when ever it pleases. I have been reading your threads and my water quality is good except my nitrate is around 5ppm and i cant get this down. This has been a problem since cycling but all my coral seem perfectly heathy and vibrant. I feed it marine snow half a capfull every two days.If any body has any questions or surgestions please pm me id be very greatfull

regards Lee

liono

01-02-08, 17:54

Have placed mine in a cave ,no special feeding -just opens at night when the phyto goes in but it,s deffo getting larger all the time

dendro982RC

02-02-08, 02:44

Thanks and more details, please: tank and corals photos, flow rates (in addition to brand names, different continents have different supplies, l/hr could be the common denominator), temperatures, salinity, natural salt water or which salt mix (could be important, could be not), frequency and amount of feeding, observations - anything.
You see for yourself, how different they are.

angel-luver!

18-09-08, 19:33

well not sure what i can add here but will try some basics, to be honest have never had any difficulty with chilli coral (Nephthyigorgia i believe) apart from an odd few, ive not really had a prob with azoo corals, partly because my display tank isnt filtered, its only got circulation pumps. water is cleaned by algae/rock and critters. the tank i have my chilli in at mo is a 10gallon tank wit jus an oversized internal filter creating lots of flow and it does well in there, opens up everyday, mainly at nite or when i feed the tank. I feed live phytoplankton to all my marine tanks and think its the king of all coral foods. when i have the chilli coral i feed it small to smallish foods depending on the size of the polyps (rotifers/cyclops etc) there is no regularity to the feeding but live phyto is put in weekly at the least. my last chilli that got huge was fed small foods with no regularity, initially had it face up on the sand but began to get detritis and algae growth on it so moved under a overhang, infront of a external filter outlet. i fragged it a sold it
(along with my xmas tree coral which got huge) coz i changed my tank around.
no pics of the current chilli coral, but have a few pics of my tank in the gallery on here, the pics are from my biggest tank (240l) only has 3 circulation pumps, no skimmer/filter.

dendro982RC

19-09-08, 13:16

Sorry for asking so much questions, but I'm trying to figure out, what differs systems, able to support chili corals, from systems, that are not able to do this. It could be particular:
- filtration, even particular type of equipment,
- combination of live organisms in the tank,
- natural seawater,
- lower, than usual, temperature or salinity,
- flow, direction, type or intensity,
- amount of food and frequency of feeding, filtration, able to deal with this bioload,
- type of food, given to it (or kinds and amount of hitchhiking mysids, hiropracoids or whatever else lives in the tank),
- maybe it has to be planted tank or fishless tank, as refugium.

It is very hard to obtain sufficient information, short verbal descriptions could possibly miss something, obvious to the keeper, but overlooked by others.

Link to you full tank shot is here (http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/2552/what/allfields/name/angel-luver!). Did I understand right, and this is another tank, not the one, where the chili is located?

Can you post the photo of the system, that is able to support chili coral, where this coral can be seen in relation to the flow, plants, rocks, heater maybe? Closeup photo of microlife that possibly contributes to success, photo and description of filtration, frequency of changing, flow through it (x tank volume per hr). Chili coral at beginning, during hard times (if there were any), and lately, time span between them. I will greatly appreciate this.

Basic camera or even photos, made by cell phone, will be fine: I only need to catch the principal difference.

sitribe

19-09-08, 14:12

Hi

Just to add to this thread. My chilli coral really didn't do well in my main tank which is a Juwel Ri 180, so I put it inside the internal filter housing that Juwels have. Mine is filled with LR rubble, I put the Chilli at the top, it receives little or no lighting and loads of flow and has taken months but is slowly recovering.

I don't feed it, but I do use natural sea water which I think makes my corals grow much better. No specific coral feeding other than really small cyclopeze type frozen food and larger stuff for my LPS.

Salinity is around 1.026, temperature around the low 80's. I also have Xmas tree coral in my internal filter. Both the chilli and Xmas tree were put in there as a last effort to save them becuase they really didn't like the main tank, which is mainly LPS and mushroom.

Hope this adds to your info.

Si

angel-luver!

19-09-08, 16:46

have taken some pics of my chilli in ist current tank and will add them when i get some free time. its sitting at the bottom of the tank on sand, only couple soft corals in tank, one fluval internat filter, and t5 lighting from a overhead illuminaire, it is a strong flow area. there really is no reghularity with feeding in my tanks, and i hardly directly feed the chilli, i just decide what i want 2 feed on the day, but live phtyto is put in weekly in large doses. the tank doesnt have a heater, but usual stays warm (26C) as the room is warm and from the lights. again there is lots of macrio algae in the tank, its a cheap way of removing excess nutrients. havent water tested the tank in while so wouldnt know parameters. but sg is 1.026. i occasionally add dechlorinated tapwater to all my reef tanks to add trace elements and some extra nutrients, but mainly ro water. rarely do water changes just dose with minerals on regular basis. aragonite buffer, magnesium, iodine/iodide/fatty acids/amino acids/iron are all added weekly to all my tanks on seperate days.

dendro982RC

20-09-08, 14:07

sitribe:
I have two threads about my Christmas tree worms, here (http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=168233) and here (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1049641), maybe they can help. Mostly I feed them frequently by the reef and fish food, not only phytoplankton, <100 micron in size.

angel-luver!: I'll wait for the pictures, and maybe the refugium type of the tank is the key. I'll try to move the small chili in similar tank and see, how it will be doing.

Thank you both, keep posting - it really helps.
:thanks:

mariusz621

08-10-08, 10:19

This is a story of my troubles with chili coral:)

I got a red chili in June this year for my cylinder tank. I was very happy with it for a day or two. I did expand at night, but after 2 days it has stopped. It did not opened till it has been moved to another tank. In the original tank the coral was placed in a cave away form light. The water flow was moderate. Water parameters were stable: temp 25c, salinity 1.025, no3 <30.
Now 2 weeks ago I have set up a new tank " trigger happy reef". You can check the link for system description and full tank shots. Since day one of the move chili coral woke up and stays open most of the time. It is always open when I am around (that's from 3pm till 7am). It is placed in open space on top of the rock structure directly below 150w 20k metal halide. The light does not bother the coral at all. A week ago I have purchased yellow chili coral which stays open 24/7.
The coral opened without any food addidtions, as the food doser was not ready, so I am sure the "awakeness" was not caused by food addition. What is different in this set up? The following:
1.Flow: very strong, 2 mp40 vortech and tunze wavebox. It gives 49 time tank voume per hour (that excludes wavebox). Vortech pumps are placed on opposite side of the tank in lagune mode and the pumps work in ani synch mode. This gives strong laminar flow.
2. Temperature which stays below 23c. It is usually around 22. I did noticed the temp was falling below 23, so one day I have connected additional heater. the temp went to 25 and the chili corla withdrown it's polips. I am not sure if this is coisidence or not??? I have removed the extra heater and coral stays open again...
3. Lighting. I am using 20k 2x150w metal halides, where previously I was using t5 tubes. It is said the coral does not like light, but mine is just below the metal halide and seems to like it...
4. Accidently I have increased salinity to 1.028 in the new tank on day one.It is around 1.027 at the moment.
I have now connected food reactor which doses fm stuff, cyclopeeze, rootifers, marine snow, phyto 24/7. Addition of this has not changed chili coral behaviour. I am also dosing korallen zucht zeostart 1ml/day, vodka 4ml/day, zeofood and zeobak 5drops each/2 a week, sponge power 5 drops/day, phol's amino acids 5drops/day, biodigest and bioptim recommended doses on alternative weeks. I run carbon and rowa, but this does not affect chili coral behaviour.
I have ordered another 3 chili corals and I will closely monitor them all. Any additional findings will be posted here

Picture of the chili corals. Shot taken in the afternoon with metal halides on...
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/group13a_1.jpg

dendro982RC

08-10-08, 21:51

Could it be, that the yellow one be from temperate waters, like UK shores found Alcyonium glomeratum (http://www.marlin.ac.uk/species/Alcyoniumglomeratum.htm), or more robust A. digitatum? And the red one be from the Indo-Pacific region, with higher water temperatures?

By the way, can anybody tell me usual UK waters temperatures? I may try to place some frags at lower temperatures, despite that there is no import of the corals from Europe, only from Atlantic and Indo-Pacific. And try to imitate seasonal changes. Any information about this?

All mine react within few minutes on the light, even moderate PC, all were open for a month or so at beginning and closed for a half of year afterward, then open again. Could it be that the different species within genus have different behaviour and requirements?

And again, taxonomic belonging of this corals bothers me very much: here Alcyonum is strongly associated with common name colt coral, which seems to be now reclassified as Klyxum (http://www.aquatouch.com/PDF%20Files/Octocoral%20Workshop%20Laboratory%20Manual%202007. pdf). While here, in NA, for chili is usually used +name. May be Alcyonum chili coral is only North European and Mediterranean species?

Can anybody shed some light on this with links to differential identification? UK site in the first link, related to academic institutions, uses this term as a valid classification.

Maybe we are trying to fit all incompatibles in the same conditions, and after are wondering, why it isn't working. At the moment my 4 different kinds of chili, all red, are more difficult and unpredictable, than dendronephthya.

I placed one of them in refugium type of the tank, as I said, and no changes since then - still closed. Tank has best parameters from all my tanks and visually cleanest water. Abundantly fed by 2-280 microns food, both phyto and zooplankton, including live SS rotifers, sea apples and blueberry gorgonian's pink relative Muricella plectana doing good there, so far. Only flow is moderate.

Can we work out what else could we try?
Or how differentiate visually chili corals with different requirements.

mariusz621

26-11-08, 13:33

I placed one of them in refugium type of the tank, as I said, and no changes since then - still closed. Tank has best parameters from all my tanks and visually cleanest water. Abundantly fed by 2-280 microns food, both phyto and zooplankton, including live SS rotifers, sea apples and blueberry gorgonian's pink relative Muricella plectana doing good there, so far. Only flow is moderate.

I would change that. Can you try to place one of them in direct strong flow in front of a pump or powerhead. That should stimulate the coral to open withing few hours...

dendro982RC

26-11-08, 13:58

Did that already, no effect. In the tank with zero nitrates and phosphates, but a lot of organics (bacterial film, microaldae).

After more than week of no result, placed both stubborn kinds of chilis (vertical cactus shaped and large tree-like) in the fish with gorgonians tank (no bacterial film or microalgae, but nitrates, very low), where smallest piece of the same kind of tree-shaped chili (base, that separated from main colony) is open all the time. No effect for a week too.

Yesterday moved one of them to the sun corals tank, highest in food (one a day) and oxygen (950 l rated skimmer on 22 l tank), but with fast rising nitrates (up to 40 mg/l before water change). Nothing yet, will see.

Mystery coral.

After applying drastic measures to a zero PO4 and NO3 tank with high organics - another 950 l rated skimmer on 55 l tank and manual scrubbing off everything undesirable - palm-shaped, most common kind of chili, and mini-fingers chili are open for a very prolonged time, even with lights on (in lower light area).

Is it more sensitive to water quality, than sps are?
Montipora, pocillopora, porites, birdsnest in the same tank grow very well, despite high organics.

If you will have any ideas about what else to try - I'll do that.
Except making your tank of tank :D . My skimmers are not keeping water clean and I change cup of activated carbon only once in two weeks.

KRUSTY THE CLOWNfish

26-11-08, 23:57

I would change that. Can you try to place one of them in direct strong flow in front of a pump or powerhead. That should stimulate the coral to open withing few hours...

Id second that :) Had mine for about 2 years, and for the first 4 months it didnt come out much at all, then I up'ed the flow to about 45 x an hour and it came out within a few hours, and it was huge :thumbsup: about 5 times its closed size and looked beautiful :applause:

dendro982RC

27-11-08, 09:15

mariusz621

27-11-08, 09:33

Can you post photo or describe how far the chili coral is from nearest powerhead of source of flow and l/hr for this powerhead/pump? Or speed of flow (cm/s) in its location?
I can't increase the total flow in tanks because other organisms' requirements, but can create suitable local conditions.

I keep mine in the part were there is a lot of turbulence.
I don't think they are very sensitive to no3 and po4 values as I was keeping mine in various conditions and this did not make any difference. It may not like very strong light, but even this won't stop the coral from opening if other requirements are met. I think the flow is crucial. I was playing a lot with chili placement. As you know, there are part of the tank that are very quiet and some that are very turbulent. Chili was never happy in the quiet parts of the tank. They can withstand a lot of very strong flow.

If you could, I would suggest to palce 2 streams or pumps to face each other in not too far distance. Where the flow from both of them meet, you are going to have some strong turbulence. Place chili coral there. Give it a day or two. Regardless of the presence or lack of food the coral should open, I hope. You could aslo lower the temp to 22-23c range as this may help to "wake" the coral up...

dendro982RC

27-11-08, 10:07

mariusz621

27-11-08, 11:02

I'll move one in area of reasonably strong turbulent flow, where muricella is, and another - in very strong reflected flow, less turbulent, but not laminar - where dendronephthya is located. Will see how it will works.

I see on the your photo above, that the chili and sun corals are nest to each other. In planned and already tried locations the tentacles of sun coral will be swept far aside (condy anemone in this tank is stretched to its limits by flow).

:thanks:

I will try to post a video of the flow to give an idea how strong it is. The candy sponge is in front of 2 mp40. Each of these pumps is over 12000l/h. The sponge is very flexible and bends a lot in the flow. Chili are enjoying this flow as well...

dendro982RC

27-11-08, 14:08

And photo, I'll be unable to see video - I deleted all video software after my computer was paralyzed until video advertisement finished downloading, completely unasked for.
Example of flow, where the chili coral already was, with green star polyps as indicator of flow (on photo is scleronephthya):
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Soft%20corals/Dec25_07sclero.jpg
Right side of the same GSP clump:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Some%20of%20the%20tanks/for%20eCoralia/Jun20_08dendronephthya.jpg

No indicator of flow here, except tentacles of the sun coral, but powerheads are Seio 620, 2280 l/hr each, cross current created turbulent flow:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Soft%20corals/Chili%20coral/Dec06_0690g.jpg
Shown here chili was open for some time, then it closed for a long time.

Last time the vertical one was open in a moderate-low flow, for months, dark tank:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Some%20of%20the%20tanks/Jun25_085g.jpg
The wide one even started to grow.

This is where chili will be, near dendronephthya and, the second one, aside of it, in reflected in the corner flow:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Some%20of%20the%20tanks/15g%20shallow/Oct02_0815gsh_flow.jpg
the second photo continues the first on the left:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/Some%20of%20the%20tanks/15g%20shallow/Sep22_0815gsh_flowind.jpg
Polyps of diodogorgia are bent, flow is intolerably high for crinoid.

About lowering temperature: I tried slow lowering to 23C, inhabitants were uncomfortable. Currently is 24.5C.
Could try once more, but if I set separate tank (the 6th, or no!).

dendro982RC

27-11-08, 14:25

It is strange, that valentini puffer tried swiftia - mine lived for an year in the same tank with no problems. Tried once sun coral, spit away immediately and never tried again. Maybe individuals differ.

Fabricius book covers only corals of Indo-Pacific region, depth of coverage you can see in free preview here (http://www3.aims.gov.au/pages/research/soft-corals/soft-corals00.html) and here (http://www3.aims.gov.au/pages/softcorals-seafans/soft-corals01.html).

P.S. Sorry, this post was intended for Trigger Happy Reef thread :)

mariusz621

27-11-08, 15:57

You are confusing me now :laugh:
Last time the vertical one was open in a moderate-low flow, for months, dark tank Maybe this is a different chili group, which may enjoy quieter position?

One of my corals, which I think is related to chili prefers quiet position. That may explain why some are fine in low flow and some are not??? They are quite a few corals named as chili...

From your pictures it looks like the flow in your tanks is much slower than in mine. I do have some serious turbulence in part of mine...

mariusz621

27-11-08, 16:00

It is strange, that valentini puffer tried swiftia - mine lived for an year in the same tank with no problems. Tried once sun coral, spit away immediately and never tried again. Maybe individuals differ.

Fabricius book covers only corals of Indo-Pacific region, depth of coverage you can see in free preview here (http://www3.aims.gov.au/pages/research/soft-corals/soft-corals00.html) and here (http://www3.aims.gov.au/pages/softcorals-seafans/soft-corals01.html).

I wish he tried it...he went mad for it:laugh: picking the polyps like little cady sweets...funny that I have a white version with orange polyps which he ignores completly. I think the puffer noticed this was new, tried it and went for some more...

dendro982RC

28-11-08, 04:35

From your pictures it looks like the flow in your tanks is much slower than in mine. I do have some serious turbulence in part of mine.
Can't make it stronger, even if I already have a very strong pump: polyps of the other corals becoming bent and feeding is impaired, red sea whip loses tissue in high flow, Umbellulifera tried to slide away from flow, Christmas tree worms' crowns were bent too, feeding suffers.

Placed today closed chilis in designated positions, will wait for results.

I couldn't find clear info on visual differentiation of the chili corals, will they be Alcyonium (not Kxuxlum colt, but A. digitatum, A. glomeratum, A. palmatum and so on), Nephthyigorgia or Carotalcyon :confused:

KeithM

21-02-09, 18:19

Digging up an old thread...

Dendro, I think chili corals are Nephthyigorgia sp. not Alcyonium sp. as the latter (according to my Fabricius book) is not found in tropical waters.

The same book also says that Carotalcyon is a deep-water Japanese genus which would make collection and distribution to the world wide aquarium trade rare. Chili corals are seen quite often in Europe and USA, and we rare see stock from Japanese waters. On top of all that, Carotalcyon is in the Paralcyoniidae family which all have a cup like base which the coral can draw itself into - Have a look at the base of a Studeriotes. So its unlikely that the common Chili coral is Carotalcyon.

Nephthyigorgia sp. seems the most accurate name for now.