Details of Daniela Stettler's tank filtration?

[dendro982RC]

Can anybody post details of Daniela Stettler's tank filtration?

pdf file, French and German sites provide too little information - that it is internal biological filter, inspired by Peter Wilkens, that water enters filtration chamber, then proceeds through coral rubble/biomedia, to the return pump. And no skimmer in the first several years.

If all components are mentioned, it should work for any tank.
But, from my humble experience, no filter floss or biomedia clean water from dissolved organics, coming with such amounts of frozen food.

Any information will be appreciated.

[Jens Kallmeyer]

HI dendro

I met her a few years back at the Sindelfingen symposium. Initially she ran her tank without a skimmer but very soon she was facing Nitrate >100 ppm and PO4 >2ppm. Eventually she installed a skimmer to get the values down a bit.

Best wishes

Jens

[KeithM]

Hi Dendro, Daniela also used vodka to reduce nitrates (and phosphates). I only know the info from the presentation of her tank from the 2005 Sindelfingen symposium: http://www.korallenriff.de/Sindelfingen2005/daniela_torsten_2005.pdf

[bristlebasher]

Maybe it would be possible to send her an e-mail ?

[dendro982RC]

Thank you both, but tell more, please.

The p.19 of this pdf file contains schematic drawing of the filter, that lacks any possible details - unless they are empty chambers with biomedia in the middle.

This can't possibly clean water from dissolved organic compounds, coming with that amount even washed frozen Artemia.

And her tank is crispy clean, comparing to the horror of mine (same sun corals, early stage, oversized skimmer, micron sock, all flow, that habitants can handle, but low light, and I vacuum bottom every day):

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/dendro982/LPS/Sun%20fragging/Feb2308in90gL.jpg
I know, that the water, I'm using could be better, but mcox from Dendronephthya study group does the same, with much better results.

Another concern:about vodka use in skimmerless tank - even in my tank with proper skimmer and dosing 1 ml/100g (380 l), all surfaces become covered by slime (bacterial film), had to stop vodka use.

Daniela's article at the same website (http://archiv.korallenriff.de/tubastrea.html) Interior biological filter and a quick filter (with no details), and the french website (http://www.recif-france.com/Articles/Portraits/Stettler/bacDaniela.php), describing her tank, mentioned: Filtration: biological filter integrated under the guidance of Peter Wilkens, capacity 36 litres, retrenchment of coarse coral sand and glass surfaces. Utilisation de Rowaphos contre les phosphates. Using Rowaphos against phosphates.
Substrat: sable de corail fin de 3 cm d'épaisseur, nettoyé toute les semaines. Substrate: coral sand late 3 cm thick, cleaned each week. (translation by Google).

I'm trying to learn from the good examples, and make my tanks work this way too.
So far just oversized skimmer is not nearly enough.

While I have not so bad water parameters - in the big tank - NO3 20 ppm, PO4 0ppm, and in high light nano tank - both zero, the tanks are visibly dirty.
I already employed the flow top to bottom, back to front, increased flow to the maximum (without too much inconvenience for inhabitants), added poweheads on timers in random to create turbulence.

Others, better keepers, have no such troubles (including Mary).
Trying tho figure out essential and critical components of their systems, do the same, and made my life easier, at last :D

bristlebasher: I would rather not, because from my previous trials to receive answers from the people, who are working at higher level, then I do, there will be no answer, or another generalization. No matter, what the reasons are. Sorry for being grim.

[KeithM]

Another concern:about vodka use in skimmerless tank - even in my tank with proper skimmer and dosing 1 ml/100g (380 l), all surfaces become covered by slime (bacterial film), had to stop vodka use.

If you use a carbon source such as vodka you must skim. I don't know the history of Daniela's tank but I am sure that when she used vodka she was also skimming.

If you get slime covering the surfaces it means that you are dosing too much carbon for your system. Another point to note about Vodka is that it is only one carbon source (ethanol?). From a long term point of view, it would be better to use a 'multi' carbon source soultion such as FM Ultrabak or KZ zeostart2.

While I have not so bad water parameters - in the big tank - NO3 20 ppm, PO4 0ppm, and in high light nano tank - both zero, the tanks are visibly dirty.
I already employed the flow top to bottom, back to front, increased flow to the maximum (without too much inconvenience for inhabitants), added poweheads on timers in random to create turbulence.


Having a tank that 'looks clean' can be different to a tank that 'is clean'. You can do a few simple things to improve how your tank looks. Remove your frag trays, scrape all the coraline off the back glass, paint the rear of the back glass (blue or black usually gives a nice effect), soak your powerheads in vinegar overnight to clean and remove coraline, mount your corals properly on the rockwork, and...add a sand bed ;)


bristlebasher: I would rather not, because from my previous trials to receive answers from the people, who are working at higher level, then I do, there will be no answer, or another generalization. No matter, what the reasons are. Sorry for being grim.

Try it, there is no harm in sending a polite email asking for help or more information. I have done this with quite a few people and I always get a very pleasant response. Most reefers are more than happy to talk for hours about their tank or other reefing things! Just ask Jens how much I've pestered him via email :laugh::p (I really appreciate it Jens ;))

[dendro982RC]

Thank you, Keith.
Daniela Stettler's tank is world famous, I thought, that people, who are longer, than I, in the NPS corals keeping, may know details.

With asking questions - I tried more, than enough - at RC, including Dendonephthya study group, and other NPS threads, other forums. With very few exceptions, results are different from yours. Jens and Danny helped a lot, and I'm deeply grateful.

You are not the first, who answered "vodka" on question about her filtration. Knowing, from the articles (links are in previous post), that the tank was skimmerless, I narrowed question.

Correction to my previous post: her tank IS clean, and mine - not. No amount of mounting frags changes that. And I started with sand, the had to remove it.

Sorry, that I asked, but had to try - this is a specialized forum, the chances were much higher.

[Andy3]

Interesting subject. I'm keeping a tank full of sun corals in a 12" cube with no issues whatsoever. It's been like this for 6 weeks, are all growing like nuts and I have 100s of tiny sun corals all over the tank.

It's actually VERY easy to keep these corals. All you need is cyclopeze and DAILY water changes. That's all their is too it. No skimmer, no mechanical filtration. Rowaphos is important, and the bag that's in will do some mechanical filtration.

I would think sun corals in a nano a lot easier than a large system, because a water change can be done in about 20 seconds. Easy.

Cheers

[Kreeger1]

6 weeks is like minutes in a corals life, keeping a tank like that for a year is a notable mark, 6 weeks is just starting

You need more then cyclopeeze too for long term.
Sorry Andy don't mean to bust your bubble. They can live off there insides longer then 6 weeks with no food at all

Tiny corals all over the tank at 6 weeks is called Polyp bail out, thats a last ditch effort for the coral species to go on living in the wild, they release polyp balls to float off and find a better spot to live :(
ERik

[KeithM]

I disagree - I believe that sun corals can be sustained completely on cyclopeeze providing enough was fed. However, I would generally recommend a more substaintial food such as mysid shrimp.

Also, Sun corals that are well fed often spawn in aquariums. If Andy fed his corals well every day for 6 months I would not be suprised if the coral spawned assuming he started of with a very healthy specimen.

[Kreeger1]

I Don't Think You Read Keith, He Said 6 Weeks. Corals take atleast a month to settle in, hes reporting sexual reproduction in 6 weeks. IMO thats not happening, hes not over feeding hes underfeeding IMO as well. To get tubs to sexually reproduce they need to be fed well. Hes looking at Polyp bail as I stated.
I think if you caught the 6 weeks thing, you won't have disagreed. SO I have to disagree with you disagree :)
Tubustrea's have big mouths....they need bigger food then cyclopeeze. Thats not a question thats a fact. I suppose they could still eat cyclop but they do need to be fed a meatier based food. In the 6 week old tank I would guess that there still feeding off there insides for a source of energy.
Erik

[KeithM]

ahh yes - you are correct - I misread 6 months instead of 6 weeks!

I still think you can sustain sun corals with cyclops or similar sized foods. I have pretty much stopped target feeding my sun coral and its just eating what is being fed to the other azoo corals. Its about quantity. providing you are feeding enough cyclops, they will be ok. Of course, I too would recommend that most people feed meatier foods such as mysid because its easier to feed/catch, but pound for pound I can't see how cylcops isn't as meaty as mysid.

[Kreeger1]

I would think the amount of cyclopeeze you would have to feed to equal the sure size of of a p.e. mysis shrimp would be a ton. I've just never had luck feeding the small foods and keeping my tubs looking healthy. I feed nutramar uva probably 3-4 times a week and for my tank, thats not enough to keeping my tubs looking good. I need to spot feed them atleast once a week.
Erik

[Will]

Interesting subject. I'm keeping a tank full of sun corals in a 12" cube with no issues whatsoever. It's been like this for 6 weeks, are all growing like nuts and I have 100s of tiny sun corals all over the tank.

It's actually VERY easy to keep these corals. All you need is cyclopeze and DAILY water changes. That's all their is too it. No skimmer, no mechanical filtration. Rowaphos is important, and the bag that's in will do some mechanical filtration.

I would think sun corals in a nano a lot easier than a large system, because a water change can be done in about 20 seconds. Easy.

Cheers

i think thats a very dangerous and sweeping comment to make, unless you have plans to keep the nutrient levels down with the feeding your doing then long term your looking at a disaster.
You may well have plans for that, but without telling the story with the post it doesnt look good.
and imo rowaphos is pointless unless used in a fluidiser, you may as well use a cheaper iron based version. :thumbsup:

[Will]

Its about quantity.

and quality :)

i think the key is to utilise a quality feed to begin with, i wouldnt be suprised if feeding a non enriched brine would do them long term nutritional damage as they probably need to use more energy to digest it than they get in return. :thumbsup:

[muzzy]

just to jump in, andy is the owner of a marine outlet in Bristol, so dont assume that he doesnt know what he is doing

[Kreeger1]

Sure doesn't seem too IMO