View Full Version : Trops Before Marines - Is it Essential?
With the marine hobby now diversifying even further from the tropical world, is a background in tropical fish helpful, detrimental, neither etc etc?
It would seem that many of the practises from trops are now considered unsuited to a reef set up - canister filters, infrequent feeding regimes, higher nitrate tolerance etc - and many LFS who sell marines, but still major in trops, encourage some of these practises to their customers.
I never kept trops before marines, but I think it was better that I didn't as I had no preconceived notions and had to learn everything from scratch regarding nitrogen cycle, skimming, water movement etc.
Or perhaps you never kept trops, but felt it may have helped.
Just curious as to what everyone else thinks
:thanks:
didnt keep trops, didnt hinder?
didnt keep trops, didnt hinder?
Same as 'didn't keep trops - helped' for the purposes of this, if thats ok
I think it does help, helps with getting used to testing, water changes, tank maintenance, fish health etc
Same as 'didn't keep trops - helped' for the purposes of this, if thats ok
ok added my 2p ;)
I didn't keep them and it neither helped nor hindered so will go with helped.
Hi,
IMO, we are water keepers, and if you learn by keeping tropicals, it can help.
I as you might of guessed kept a tropical tank.
ATB
Tets.
kept them for over 10 years but to be honest i was never very successful, always plagued with nuiscance algaes, dying plants and usually dying fish as well!
Ive found keeping marines so much easier, probably because everyone told me how much harder it was, so i deliberately read read and read, tested tested tested and i guess thats why i was unsuccessful at trops as i thought it was supposed to have been easy!
peteinwilts
08-04-08, 13:43
I kept tropicals for 20 years before starting marines. It is the same, but different.
I believe 10% of fishkeepers keep 90% of successful tanks. i.e. There are a lot more bad fishkeepers that ignore good advise and think they no better and often inevititably go wrong. How many newbies add livestock before a tank has cycled or tried to keep anenomes before they should. There are some success stories, but comparitively not many.
I believe it gave me a basic understanding, and I also believe when I studied Marine Biology 25 years ago, keeping marines is so different now to then that it gave me practically no help.
That basic understanding taught me patience and to understand why the basic rules should be followed. i think it is a good thing.
i never had trops and it hasn't helped or hindered so as above, voted helped.
like muzzy, i bought a tank to keep 'something', was told that there was no way i could go marine straight off as it required years of experience. that pee'd me off ever so slightly so i set out to prove them wrong. the price and pride kept me going, couldn't afford to give up once i had started.
agree with maestro - it helps with getting used to routine, to the idea of fishkeeping. and here there is no difference whether you start with tropi and then go marines or other way around.
regarding hindering, imo there is only a few areas in life where learning something - anything - can be a hindrance. fishkeeping is not one of them:)
rich_tilbury
08-04-08, 14:14
I began to keep tropical fw when I wasn't allowed to have a pond in our present garden (small kids around). I got into planted tanks as this made more sense to me.
I keep my planted tank using Walstad's methods, which uses the plants as the main filtration and small powerhead to provide water movement, so stepping over to marines was a simple shift - just swapping plants for LR and macroalgae! :)
I think it helped lots - learning basics such as biological filtration, water chemistry and the importance of water changes for example.
richie rumble
08-04-08, 17:52
gree with Muzzy here........kept Trops for 10 odd years, never kept a plant alive for more than 4 weeks and had constant whitespot!!! really scared about Marines as i kept hearing from centres who keep trops and marine how difficult it is going from one to the other. went to a marine only shop and did my research with them and found its alot easier than i thought....only had one outbreak of the "ich" so far, learnt my lesson about rushing into things and now alot happier tank for it!!!!! :D:D:D
My response would be didn't keep trpos but didn't hinder or help.
As long as you are prepared to put the time in I don't think it matters.
no one i doubt is going to be to keen on saying that as they didn't keep trops first it hinderd them.
i think it def helps as it gets you used to water quality and equipment, but it doesn't mean people cant learn all that whilst the water quality stabilizes
rich_tilbury
08-04-08, 19:40
One thing is for sure FW tropical mistakes are cheaper!
reefontyne
08-04-08, 20:16
personally i kept FW on/off for 20 years before taking the plunge into marine reef keeping.
i found i got bored with FW easily as once the tank was up & running there was little you had to do (obviously water changes and cutting back plants!).
when dedecorating forced me to shutdown my FW tank i by chance had a look in cyber and had a chat with the staff about the nano tank they had on display. i was amazed as i had always been told and assumed marines where nye on impossible to keep and where a money pit
9 months later i have a 3+ month old nano and touch wood i have encountered no problems to date due to months of reading & research both books and on here!!
i think keeping trops gives you a good grounding in basic tank husbandry & equipment.
IMO
How can someone who has not kept tropical decide if its helpful or not
:confused:
Sorry poor wording on my behalf, should be 'Never kept - didn't hinder', it's up to the individual to decide whether or not they feel that going straght to marines was a bridge too far, and some experience gained from trops may have been useful to them
I never kept trops, but I took advice from various LFS'es & forums before I started keeping marines
Shelton.
Never kept trops at all. However as money was tight and i had good advice i read alot before starting and brought the best kit i could afford, such as mc500 skimmer and eheim pumps. Learnt how to use a test kit well before anything went in and took it slowly.
Corals and fish that i had then are still going well now, So no I would say not essential.
Kept trops, and still do keep trops. I think they helped in knowing what to look for in a tank, and what is practical/impractical especially for the reef tank. You also find out what its like to keep fish on a regular routine as well, which helps for the step up to marines.
i kept colds then trops and marine twice to present day wont keep anything else now all helped and still learning :confused:
I think once you have kept any fish,it raises your awareness of the needs of the fish etc that you are keeping.Tho the needs are much diffrent there are basics which are a foundation for general health of the fish...
Bigyellowpuffer
11-04-08, 13:17
It depends on budget I suppose, kept trops for a few years, then marines for a couple, then stopped all together. Recently had a big trop tank, lasted about two months. Now back hooked on the marines. Trops will teach you the basics, but I found, once you've had a colour TV you can't go back to watching black n white.
Ivan
I must have kept Trops for about 22 years before marines. I think it helps in that you get to know routines etc as well as being able to quickly identify fish which are unwell etc.
Having said that I wish I'd gone into marines earlier, I think I must have kept every type of lfs available freshwater fish and as has already been said found that once I had a fully stocked tank there wasn't a great deal to do...
I used to breed some types but even then found that it wasn't really worth the effort becuase I didn't get much for them.
Marines provide so many different things to keep, and I certainly find that I get a reasonable price for my mushrooms etc at the lfs, which makes it more satisfying I think (I don't feel as guilty buying new corals etc)
billythesquid
11-04-08, 17:33
i want to add to this pole but i can`t
i have never had a tropicle set up my dad has always had 6 foot plus trops with mixed shoals
oscars ect.
i think most people enter marine keeping with a grit of teeth and a worrie, but given the right advise and readin plenty which is the must, i don`t really see how it all goes pair shape. yes we all have our problems algea blooms and white spot ect ect but i come from an old school trop generation.
my dads most recent tropicle tank is again 6 foot full of everything form red tail sharks v/fighters neons knife fish and on and on.
filled with tap water 330 tds gravel bottom 1 eheim external 1000lp/h filter that holds marbles a bit of sponge media and a small bag of carbon.
never has a problem
when you get into marine the finess is alittle higher but for most begginers the interest is fish and soofties that sway which are farely hard to killa to be honest, and as you grow so does YOUR hobbie i think it works out quite nicly.
the longer you do it the more you get into it the more you get into it the more you want to keep. but your fasination keeps up to the times.
with ur`s assistance of corse.
so i don`t belive it to be an advantage or hinderence.
tony
I never kept trops before marines, but was advised to 15 years ago when i started,
the newbie
12-04-08, 21:22
i found went from trops ot cichlid to marines
Bhoy Wonder
12-04-08, 21:41
I am a newbie also and kept malawis, turtles, toads n newts so a bit of experience in aquatics:D but so far have found marines is totall different so am sayin u don't have to dip into trops as it will just provide u with a longer wait before the "desired ones".
Thinking either 12 or 24 gallon nano:ponder:
Kept trops for 31 years it for me has no relevance towards marine reefs maybe adjusting a thermo tho ...
I kept goldfish, from being about 7, as I got older I changed my simple set up to an undergravel filter based one, after reading about them- No more scrubbing under the kitchen tap!
My mum made me take full responsibility by the time I was ten.
As a ten year old I used to measure out my water and dechlorinator and regularly do water tests.
I learnt how fast a good set up can go wrong if you overstock, 'patience' a good skill for marines.
My goldfish used to regularly breed ( I raised the fry, and watched them colour up- I was so proud at the time) and my oldest 'Henry' lived to be fifteen (he was a big fish when he died)
All this came to an end about five years ago, while putting up a flat packed piece of furniture (and minding a light pendent) I broke my biggest tank.
Everyone survived and my sister took over the hobby.
I missed keeping fish and originally went to look at tropicals, until my partner saw the marines!
I took some convincing, as I thought I wasn't clever enough to do it.
At first I needed to explain a lot to him, for example, good water chemistry, now occasionally he has to explain something to me!
Anyway, my personal experience is fish keeping experience was useful to me.
(Finally got to the point of my post, at last :applause:)
I think it helped. I kept trops for a number of years (firstly as a child "helping" my dad and then my own tanks). I still have 2 freshwater trop tanks now.
It helped because I already had basic understanding of things like tank cycling (very basic water chemistry) and fish health and researching things like tank mate compatibility.
I don't think it's essential - just a steeper learning curve without keeping other fish first. Made marines more of a step up for us than a completely new concept.
Vicky
Didn't vote because:
1. I've kept koi carp for the last 8 years and was brought up with them in the family.
2. I keep about 40 trops tanks professionally but never as a hobbie at home.
I feel the experience with the Koi helped as I learnt about the nitrogen cycle, buffering systems and some basic fish anatomy and physiology. The trops didn't help as I learn't everything from the koi.
At the end of the day you keep water, not fish so I guess the type of fish is irrelevent. Corals are a bit of a different matter, they require a lot more knowledge.
Started with goldfish then trops for about 20 years before venturing into Reef. Some help in understanding filtration, chemistry etc. But it is a totally different hobby to trops and cold...
I'm another in the kept trops, helped category.
I am actually finding it "easier" to keep marines than i did trops. although "easiness" i think is just a measure of effort when it comes to fishkeeping.
Espocrespo
28-04-08, 16:32
i didn't keep trops b4 and i dont think it made any difference.
I read up about keeping fish for 8 months(and im still reading and learning) before deciding to buy a tank.
marcopolored
29-07-08, 23:46
I voted Kept & helped.
I've kept trops all my life, was raised with them as my dad had 2 tanks. Haven't had any for the past 7 years tho, due to selling them when we moved half way across the country. We had a 3 foot SW tank back then too, not marine, could be classed as brackish. The plan was then to move over to marines but life kinda got in the way ;)
I haven't told my other half yet, but I've got my eye on a corner tank for the bottom of the stairs - that's gonna be trops.
I think keeping Tropical fish in the past helps as they are a little more forgiving on looking after them but it does give you a good grounding for keeping marines,
:)
Not necessary to keep Trops but doesn't hurt. UR helps avoid some basic mistakes
Agree keeping Trops doesn't hurt and I've still got the trops as well as the marine. However I've caught the marine bug and already planning to swap over as the trops are in a 6x2x2 tank thats about 9years old and looking a bit long in the tooth. I just need the excuse!!
keeping trops first helps, you understand the nitrogen cycle
does help, as know about water and how inportant it it to do water changes and testing the water. oh and feeding
I have kept trops and malawi's for the past 10 years on and off.
I think it helped as it gave my an understanding about the basics of water changes, whater chem (to a lesser degree) how bio filteration works etc.
During this time I only lost maybe half a dozen fish as I always gave them back to my LFS when I wanted to try a new area.
Really miss the malawi's though and would keep them in a heart beat again!
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