View Full Version : Energy Price Increase 40%
Radiantpaper
19-06-08, 22:28
With recent fuel prices and energy companies saying they may increase costs by as much as 40% an additional £400 per year, do you think this could stop you carrying on the hobby?
Alan Gabriel
19-06-08, 22:35
I would seriously think about giving up my 8ft tank and buying a cube.
i can understand the increase hurting people in the pocket but i think the answer would be no for most . just look at petrol over the last few years i bet there is not many people giving up driving and i bet it works out a hell of a lot more increase
i hpoe it dont rise 40% though when i think how much we pay in the shop anyway OMG :eek::eek:
40% more on electric will mean an extra £1500 a year for me to run the tank.
i will have to seriously think about whether i can actually afford it, my brain is telling me no at the moment
i can understand the increase hurting people in the pocket but i think the answer would be no for most . just look at petrol over the last few years i bet there is not many people giving up driving and i bet it works out a hell of a lot more increase
i hpoe it dont rise 40% though when i think how much we pay in the shop anyway OMG :eek::eek:
driving for many is a neccessity to earn a living. i dont think you can compare the two
I probably wouldn't give up but I think as energy prices keep on rising we may need to give more thought to the type of equipment we use (unless we have more money than sense). I think the days of 400W halides and more closed loops than a nuclear power station are numbered...
Radiantpaper
19-06-08, 22:42
I also guess if the electric companies did it, how long before the water comapies up thier prices?
The 2 combined, makes you think.
Wont give up the hobby, but just change the way I run it. I.E less lighting, maybe fowlr.
atb,
Bry
Fix it now!!!I fixed mine till oct 2009 a month ago, seen offers for fixing till 2011 as well.
Theres just simply no excuse not too
It won't go up by 40%, those figures are suggested by the companies so they can increase it by half that and we are all grateful. It also doesn't hurt sales of higher priced fixed deals either.
I've cut my 400w twin halides down from 8 hrs a day to 6 and now tee off my 7000 lph pump to run my phos. reactor, chiller, skimmer and return though. I've also put the air pumps on the skimmer on timers aswell so it only runs 12 hrs a day.
It might be so but one day soon it will be 40% higher, I can seriously see my tank going one day and replacing it with a planted trop tank, Cant go back to fish only marine looks so bland for me.
I guess it boils down to money and how much one earns but it my neck of the wood
wages are naff compared to the rest of the country so different regions may be affected worse than others
I've only got a nano,so the increase will have little effect.
I am still on 2007 prices (pre Feb 08 rises) and this capped rate is due to finish in October this year - just at the wrong time if speculation is correct. After hearing this on BBC radio 4 yesterday morning, I contacted my provider (Scottish Power) and changed my rate yesterday. Currently paying £150/month for the past year and a half for gas and electric and the change over will mean I will pay £170/month as long as my usage does not change. This is fixed until Feb 2011 (no tie-ins) and is only available until the end on this month. The next best with them is a fixed rate until Feb 2009 which would cost me £195/month and you are tied in for this period.
Going on the £20/month extra I will be paying then my reef will stay. If it was to be £45/month I would seriously have to think about giving up my 300g reef. So if I would have made this change on my energy rate 10 days later I may well have been looking to close down.
keith hellyar
20-06-08, 12:25
Electricity bill is currently £200 per month. A 40% rise would add a £1000 per year to my bill. Thats a definite no for me but I think there is scope to reduce my power usage.
I have a 5x2x2 sump in my garage. In the winter it is freezing in there and I need 1200watts of heating to keep the system at temperature. I'm considering closing down the sump and replacing it with a vat of similar size. The vat will be housed in a wooden box and the void filled with polyurethane foam. I will also add a tight fitting heavily insulated lid. All ancillary equipment eg skimmer, reactors etc will be connected to the vat via bulkheads
I have already replaced 150watts of T5 actinic with blue led;s
I have a myriad of pumps supplying my ancillary equipment. I curently use a sequence 10,000 as my return pump which is controlled down to reduce flow. I'm planning to create a manifold so I can use the excess pumping power to supply my skimmer and reactors.
I will close down my frag tank in winter. during the summer it actually helps with cooling.
Away from the tank, our kitchen is fitted with 12x 50w 12v spot lamps. I'm looking to replace them with led. They have 60 leds and use 3 watts per fitting. I've ordered 3 to see how they perform and will replace all 12 if they are ok. That will be 600 watts currently down to 36 watts if they perform well enough.
Consider reducing lighting period of my 400 watt halides. Or replace 2x400 with 2x 250. to be honest though, I'm not sure the cost of switching to 2x250 woud be justified for the saving.
Failing all of this, I think my next step will be "down" to a planted tropical tank. I'm not sure a FO marine system would satisfy me. I like aquascaping with corals and in my opinion the next best thing would be a fully planted tropical system.
Keith
If leccy went up 40% I think I would either have to pack up completley or get a nano with just a goby and a few corals and inverts. Or go travelling round SE Asia for a few months/ a year and swim with the fishys everyday. :D
Dont want to open a can of worms:D. But i find it really annoying that we have known all along that our supply of fossil fuels would soon run out and that would we would then have to rely on a finite source of foreign fossil fuels. And now it really has come back to bite us. So short sighted its unreal.
The present and previous governments could have avoided most of the misery that is to come. :annoyed:
Away from the tank, our kitchen is fitted with 12x 50w 12v spot lamps. I'm looking to replace them with led. They have 60 leds and use 3 watts per fitting. I've ordered 3 to see how they perform and will replace all 12 if they are ok. That will be 600 watts currently down to 36 watts if they perform well enough.
Keith
That's caught my interest as I have exactly the same, 12 x 50w. Are you changing the transformers they run off?
Norvern Rob
20-06-08, 14:01
If leccy went up 40% I think I would either have to pack up completley or get a nano with just a goby and a few corals and inverts. Or go travelling round SE Asia for a few months/ a year and swim with the fishys everyday. :D
Dont want to open a can of worms:D. But i find it really annoying that we have known all along that our supply of fossil fuels would soon run out and that would we would then have to rely on a finite source of foreign fossil fuels. And now it really has come back to bite us. So short sighted its unreal.
The present and previous governments could have avoided most of the misery that is to come. :annoyed:
One of the problems Ross, is that the same people campaigning against global warming now are the same people that campaigned against Nuclear power stations being built in Britain, when that is exactly what we need to provide us with clean, reliable energy.
It's not only the government that's short sighted.
back on topic, I spoke to the guy I know who works for EON today. A couple of months ago he was told that 18-19% increases were coming around September time, now he's been told that 40% before the end of next year is very likely.
I dont bother having my actinics on during the day in the week now,just when i come home at 6.30 and at weekends. Saves abit of electricty.
One of the problems Ross, is that the same people campaigning against global warming now are the same people that campaigned against Nuclear power stations being built in Britain, when that is exactly what we need to provide us with clean, reliable energy.
It's not only the government that's short sighted.
back on topic, I spoke to the guy I know who works for EON today. A couple of months ago he was told that 18-19% increases were coming around September time, now he's been told that 40% before the end of next year is very likely.
The reason the goverment has not built any more nuke power stations is because there so expensive to build and they still dont know what to do with the radioactive waste,also have you seen how much it costs to decommision them?
Norvern Rob
20-06-08, 14:07
I'm seriously considering changing my 968w of halides/T5's/T8's to 12x54w T5s, this would save me 300w on the lighting alone. Then I could change the 2x52w Seios for 1 Vortech, saving another 65w or so. Sump lighting I could reduce from 2x39w T5s to just 1, another 39w saved.
None of this will happen (apart from the Vortech) unless I just can't afford to run the tank as it as at present.
fixed my leccy last week! Fixed for 2 years with £80 refund every 12 months :dance:
wookie7062
20-06-08, 15:50
As far as I am aware there have been no queues at the pumps and no outages of power except when workers take action to improve their lot. There is plenty of oil at the moment and the oil companies and UK government are just filling their boots. How about lowering taxes or investing in other forms of energy. Big businesses and their shareholders have far too much say in the world we live in.
Everyone has known for years what we should be doing, personally I don't believe in global warming being caused by us. I do believe that cleaner fuels and less waste would be a better way forward. Ideally spend all the money they use to blow people up to invent and develop energy saving equipment.
When we are queuing at the pumps I think the oil price will rightly rocket until then they are taking advantage of a bad situation. There are always winners in a recession and it is never the working man.
Sorry about the rant
fishmaduds
20-06-08, 15:55
I'd just get the wife to do some lap dancin to cover the extra costs!
:laugh: i think i'll keep that one quiet from the missus i know what the answer would be it begins in f and ends in off.
Sye Davies
20-06-08, 18:54
halted plans for the sps and gone fowlr already.
keith hellyar
20-06-08, 19:34
That's caught my interest as I have exactly the same, 12 x 50w. Are you changing the transformers they run off?
I'll let you know how they work out. I've ordered them from Hong Kong
Keith
Dont believe that climate change is caused by humans surely not? leaving natural cyclic climate changes aside - which happen over 1000 of years surely the pollution being pumped into the atmosphere from our over comsumption of natural resources may just have an effect on the world ecosystems? look at the 'human impacts on coral reefs? land clearance leads to high sediment loads into rivers and out to see covering coral reefs, boats dredging the sea bed trashes corals reefs, higher water temperatures, acidification of the sea through the saturation of CO2 and other gases through releasing pollution from fossil fuels, animal farming, forest burning and other human activities.......
Sorry slightly off topic I am looking at reducing the energy used for my next tank - I am planning to get an electric monitor and I am kitting out the tank with LED's, energy efficient pumps (well with less energy requirements) and other ways of reducing the costs of running a tank - then if that fails due to price increases I may decide to shut down the tank.
I do believe that we need to use energy more efficiently and wisely - and with the energy prices as they are and where they will go hopefully it will make us look to ways of reducing, reusing, recycling many different items in our everyday lives.
It is funny that the price of fuel has had a desirable effect - people in some cases are using their cars less.......so working on ways of using the tank system less would make perfect sense
J
I too believe its partly down to nature doing the warming up,but then again I read that the temp.rise just coincides with the invention of the internal combustion engine,200 years ago.
Radiantpaper
21-06-08, 10:12
I belive that the suppliers of equipment etc have a role to play, in all this, should they not be designing more energy effective solutions to the marine world?
Would be nice to get some thoghts from any.
I belive that the suppliers of equipment etc have a role to play, in all this, should they not be designing more energy effective solutions to the marine world? Something along the lines of Red Dragon pumps and TMC LED lighting? The initial costs are high, but...
samwiseman
21-06-08, 22:29
led's could be the future!!
If my electric ect went up by 40% i would have to seriously think about it, thats a serious amount to add to my already huge bill.
;)
Wonder what the views of Lfs' and sponsors are?
How many Lfs' would close their doors?
They couldn't sustain a 40% Increase in electricity, so would have to raise prices to keep going imo.
So the question should be, who can afford to keep reefing if 40% increases to electricity bills occurs and the increase of wet and dry goods by Lfs' to cover their bills.
I must admit, knowing some Lfs' and how much their monthly bill already is, if it were me and my shop, I'd be hoping this 40% doesn't happen.
We could see the end of the Lfs as we know it:(
I think a 40% increase in everything would make keeping marines outside the budgets of most people unless everyone started to keep 24 gallon nano systems.
:(
What baffles me (and it dont take a lot) is a majority of peeps are against these wind farms WHY??? isnt that more cost afective it uses the wind which in turn will reduce your leccie bill my neighbour bought a small turbine for him self around 2 years ago it costs around £2k for one in B&Q that includes fitting and when I quizzed him a few months ago about it he said it has already paid for it self and the only time he uses standars electric is the last week of the month during summer and maybe an day or two in the winter his bill last year was just under £100 for the year I am concidering getting one myself just need to get permision from the local council to put it up but it shouldnt be a prob as they want peeps to be more energy efficant
the plan is if we all get one of these then the energy companies can go **** themselfs the greedy sods
there thats MO
What baffles me (and it dont take a lot) is a majority of peeps are against these wind farms WHY??? isnt that more cost afective it uses the wind which in turn will reduce your leccie bill my neighbour bought a small turbine for him self around 2 years ago it costs around £2k for one in B&Q that includes fitting and when I quizzed him a few months ago about it he said it has already paid for it self and the only time he uses standars electric is the last week of the month during summer and maybe an day or two in the winter his bill last year was just under £100 for the year I am concidering getting one myself just need to get permision from the local council to put it up but it shouldnt be a prob as they want peeps to be more energy efficant
the plan is if we all get one of these then the energy companies can go **** themselfs the greedy sods
there thats MO
Agree, the little ones can be very useful in the right place, although not every house is suitable, depending on aspect. But the big wind farms are not very efficient - cost a bomb to build, very low, slow return as half the time it's either too windy or not windy enough for the turbines. So you need lots to generate reliable energy, hence expense. Plus, they look naff and supposedly kill birds, can create a strobe effect on nearby houses and make a really annoying noise. Tidal barrages look like a better, more efficient option, but again have issues - eg RSPB campaigning against tidal barrage across the Severn. Of course, if our government would put together a credible energy policy, for example building storage facilities for gas we produce, that we sell cheaply abroad, then re-import at huge cost, we might not need windpower...
What baffles me (and it dont take a lot) is a majority of peeps are against these wind farms WHY??? isnt that more cost afective it uses the wind which in turn will reduce your leccie bill my neighbour bought a small turbine for him self around 2 years ago it costs around £2k for one in B&Q that includes fitting and when I quizzed him a few months ago about it he said it has already paid for it self and the only time he uses standars electric is the last week of the month during summer and maybe an day or two in the winter his bill last year was just under £100 for the year I am concidering getting one myself just need to get permision from the local council to put it up but it shouldnt be a prob as they want peeps to be more energy efficant
the plan is if we all get one of these then the energy companies can go **** themselfs the greedy sods
there thats MO Their efficiency is questionable as there are a number of factors to determine how well they work and just how much return you get for your money. Do you really want to spend 10+ years watching for a return?
Quite frankly, I'd prefer to see gov't and power companies co-supporting installing solar panel roof tiles so they can be fed back into the system and off-set on my bill. No unsightly gear and likely all year-round good performance compared to the wind turbine.
i can understand the increase hurting people in the pocket but i think the answer would be no for most . just look at petrol over the last few years i bet there is not many people giving up driving and i bet it works out a hell of a lot more increase
i hpoe it dont rise 40% though when i think how much we pay in the shop anyway OMG :eek::eek:
you will of allready had the hike with commerical rates mate, the residential tend to be about 6 months behind :thumbsup:
Will look at replacing my halides/T5's withe LED's... think they'll probably 'come of age' in the next year and i've fixed my leccy price till then anyway...
All in all our government has let us down badly with the whole energy debate... left us wide open to massive increases in price. Personally i think they should subsidise it as it's their lack of action that's put us in this mess... they're happy to rob us of our hard earned cash and yet what return do we see??? Not much!
All in all our government has let us down badly with the whole energy debate... left us wide open to massive increases in price. Personally i think they should subsidise it as it's their lack of action that's put us in this mess... they're happy to rob us of our hard earned cash and yet what return do we see??? Not much! Reducing tax on energy is a short-term fix. Long term, it is up to the oil producers and consumers to be responsible.
We need more of these Westmill wind farm (coop) (http://www.westmill.coop/westmill_home.asp)
I meant they should subsidise it whilst they sort out the 'lack of energy' mess they've got this country into...
There is plenty of oil its the people on the futures markets making that expensive... if we weren't so reliant of imported fossil fuels to run out power stations at least electricity wouldn't be so expensive!!
Magic Beans
22-06-08, 22:24
There's definately a huge amount of money to be made by manufacturers who are willing to invest in R&D and come up with hyper-efficient equipment.
We need more of these Westmill wind farm (coop) (http://www.westmill.coop/westmill_home.asp)
Er, no we don't. As I said before, expensive, inefficient with lots of negatives. Presume you don't live near one of the windfarms either and had to watch your house halve in value, like some friends of mine in eastern England... There are better, greener options for the long-term.
I'd like to think i could afford to keep a marine setup, even with energy costs rising.
A rise in cost would probably just dictate the direction of my hobby as in, type of lighting, amount of electrical appliances running. The biggest cost I guess would be lighting, so keeping that in check would really just restrict me in the type of life i keep.
I may not have the most colourful display tank in the future but it'll be something I can enjoy without breaking the bank.
Kinda like cars really, i'd love to own a carerra GT but in reality it would more likely be a ford escort.
We have been wasting energy/fuel in our ancient dinasaour power stations for nearly 100 years. We burn all that coal and gas to make electricty and let all the heat go up the chimney stacks with the soot and pollution. Electricty is only 17% of our total energy demand,49% is heat but we throw all the heat away through the chimneys!
No one cared before when it was just an environmental issue,but now its also an economic issue and we realise how rubbish the situation is.
We need CHP units (combine heat and power) on all the large power stations to heat our homes as well as giving us electricty. We need lots more small scale energy production from solar,and some wind. The germans are using this to great effect. We need loads more wind farms,mostly off shore. Also tidal and wave.
Er, no we don't. As I said before, expensive, inefficient with lots of negatives. Presume you don't live near one of the windfarms either and had to watch your house halve in value, like some friends of mine in eastern England... There are better, greener options for the long-term.
Yes we do. :)
Everything is expensive,its going to be more expensive to do nothing and not get these new technologys through. Inefficient? Wind is free? ;) I know they are developing hydrogen generation and storage from excess wind power,so the excess energy is not wasted. Also hydrogen is a good clean fuel.
I know people who live in Swaffam in the east of england and the town as far as I know hasnt had complaints about there two wind turbines,there house prices have not been effected either. There is alot of propoganda and ugly militant opposition to wind farms in the east of england.
I think off shore is better anyway. Plenty of wind out there.
We go down to cornwall quite often and there are quite a few wind turbines on the hills etc... personally I think they look stunning in an architectural way and the blades look very graceful and almost calming as they rotate. If they built one near my house i'd have no problems with that as i'd appreciate it for what it is and know that in a small way it was helping to prolong the life of our planet.
Admitedly building them off shore is probably the best option as there is more room and you don't get the 'i don't want them near me' moany people...
I'd love to have a small turbine on my house except living mid terrace and being surrounded by trees means that's unlikely to happen.
Biggest consumer of power in my set-up is lights.
Bring on LED's that are effective replacements from traditional MH and T5's. Oh and sensible pricing please:)
Personally if we had a 40% increase I'd be looking at what consumption I could reduce first (lighting times, skimmer becomes part time etc...)
If leccy went up 40% I think I would either have to pack up completley or get a nano with just a goby and a few corals and inverts. Or go travelling round SE Asia for a few months/ a year and swim with the fishys everyday. :D
Dont want to open a can of worms:D. But i find it really annoying that we have known all along that our supply of fossil fuels would soon run out and that would we would then have to rely on a finite source of foreign fossil fuels. And now it really has come back to bite us. So short sighted its unreal.
The present and previous governments could have avoided most of the misery that is to come. :annoyed:
There is 500 yrs supply of coal in wales alone, we are not running short on fossil fuels, its just cheaper to import coal from china and india, there is loads of oil and gas left but if the world admits that then they ave no excuse to raise prices....
Did you know that if all the bulbs in your house are low energy it actually cost you more to heat your house so the savings you make are vary limited
Go nuke... dump the waste on the moon... well...we dont use it for anything else ;)
Er, no we don't. As I said before, expensive, inefficient with lots of negatives. Presume you don't live near one of the windfarms either and had to watch your house halve in value, like some friends of mine in eastern England... There are better, greener options for the long-term.
I can see them from my front window and as a coop I have shares in them
Did you know that if all the bulbs in your house are low energy it actually cost you more to heat your house so the savings you make are vary limited
Go nuke... dump the waste on the moon... well...we dont use it for anything else ;)
:laugh:
Are you a comedian?
Ive recently bought a new set up for my living room, I halved the size of it from my origional plans because of the predicted energy increases. Also because everything else I need in life like deisel, food and booze is et to go silly as well.:(
I think I will just have to live in a cave with no mortgage, car, food, heating or lights if things keep going the way they are! I could still maybe run a nano tho!:D
jamie reefer
25-06-08, 17:30
Hi Guy's
I think it shocking that our Goverment is letting these big companies take the p*** out of the British people,these companies are making millions and millions of pounds a year by fleecing the British public...
Saying that,what will the Goverment do about,JACK,because these companies are paying too much tax...
Anyway that's my rant over:D,I would try my hardest to keep my tank as I know how hard it was for me to get this tank after packing in the last time...
Cheers Jamie.
JET's a long way away.
We should pursue it, not rely on it. 25 years ago I worked on JET.
It may not ever work. The theory is good. But....
kim
after spending over 1000 from christmas to get this far, no im not letting the price of electric stop me
Stevesfish
02-07-08, 09:01
I have already reduced my usage . I have one ocean 6500 as return pump and teed into carbon/phosphate reactors i have 2 small skimmers and only use 2 250watt halides over my 7ft tank. My electricity is currently £96 a month but is to reduce next month.
supershamus
02-07-08, 10:11
Power companies have won. I have had to knock it on the head, just could not justify the expenditure. It was already bad enough but with a predicted rise of 40 percent-just impossible, bearing in mind i am one of the derided senior citizens!
Seems to me reefkeeping is going to be exclusive to the "rich gits":), a bit like fly fishing to the normal man in the street. I shall miss it!!
The reason the goverment has not built any more nuke power stations is because there so expensive to build and they still dont know what to do with the radioactive waste,also have you seen how much it costs to decommision them?
To quote a recent article by a well known journalist:
"...to meet targets laid down by someone who only has soil between his ears, Britain must now build 10,500 wind turbines."
"...even if they start building the new crop now, and erect two a day, seven days per week, it will take until 2020 to get the job done. Then we'll need more conventional power stations to sit on standby for when the wind isn't blowing."
"for the cost of the new turbines, we could build a staggering 37 nuclear power plants"
We currently have over 2000 wind turbines - they only produce 1% of the energy we need.
Meanwhile, energy companies are preparing us for massive price hikes whilst their profits are counted in billions. There are plenty of fossil fuels left - they won't run out for generations to come, the only thing there is greater supply of in the energy business is greed.
I think the real reason the government isn't building more nuclear plants is due to the massive tax fossil fuels generate, secret handshakes between officials and fuel fatcats and unfounded and ill advised negative public opinion regarding nulclear energy.
To quote a recent article by a well known journalist:
"...to meet targets laid down by someone who only has soil between his ears, Britain must now build 10,500 wind turbines."
"...even if they start building the new crop now, and erect two a day, seven days per week, it will take until 2020 to get the job done. Then we'll need more conventional power stations to sit on standby for when the wind isn't blowing."
"for the cost of the new turbines, we could build a staggering 37 nuclear power plants"
We currently have over 2000 wind turbines - they only produce 1% of the energy we need.
"to quote a well know journalist" so im supposed to be as gullible as you and believe him am I? :laugh:
I read things like reports and studys not cr*p from the media. Why should I or anyone care what some "well known" journalist says?
At the end of the day we need alot more renewables as part of a diverse energy mix. The costs will come down. Solar is already getting cheaper. Nuclear is nearly as expensive as wind,they take ages to build,and are dangerous.
No - I recently switched to Utilities Warehouse and have found it miles cheaper. They havn't increased as much as the other companies and always try to be cheaper. I think they have a free laptop offer as well at the minute, which is a ****** as I've just renewed my bt internet.
Have a look - www.telecomplus.org.uk/090119 (http://www.telecomplus.org.uk/090119)
Robbie
I spent the weekend trying to find a cheaper option than my current supplier EDF for electric.
I used a few sites like Uswitch etc.
In the end I rang British Gas with whom our Gas is protected till April 09.
I was inquiring about a net only deal and spoke to a very nice northern woman.
In the end she has found me a better deal that wasn't on the net, so I am switching my electric to them and its protected till dec 09, likewise my gas protection has been extended until the same time.
Now bearing in mind EDF was putting my price up by 20% on the new tariff i got from British Gas after a dual fuel discount and a Direct debit discount my last electric bill usage will cost me a quid more with BG than my pre increase rate with EDF.
One of the major pluses was EDF charge me a higher rate for the first 250 odd units, BG is half that, so whilst the price per kw was more, it actually worked out better value.
err No it wouldn't make me stop
chrisreefs
30-08-08, 01:17
I wouldn’t give my reef tank up, however I did plan my latest upgrade, to be as energy efficient as possible, simple things like extra plumbing making the main return pump do more supply jobs, to my sump filters, piping + fitting are much cheaper, Chris
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