View Full Version : Mysid, Amphipods, larger live food
Hi guys
Welcome as a sponsor
I'm after a source of larger live food.
Are you able to provide culture packs for:
amphipods
mysid shrimp
cyclops
any similar size marine or reef friendly live food?
Thanks
Hi - thanks for the welcome.
Very good question on the larger feed items. Our harpaticoid copepods (very similar to the Tiggerpod) should cover your cyclops requirement. We do have a test batch of artemia at approx 10-12mm. I would definitely like to try the mysid culture as we have some culture tanks being prepared (I'll have to look up sources when I get the chance). Not so sure about amphipods but I appreciate they can look fun digging about. There is another invert suitable for culture that I'm keen to try and will update once we've made progress. Keep in touch! Cheers
Great stuff guys.
I'll be making an order from you next week.
Any specials on bulk orders? I'm thinking 2 litres of rotipod(copepod,rotifer) mix???
Hi - I can list 2 litre pods/rotifers plus 1 litre phyto for 51.00 inclusive if you're interested. Cheers
yep sold, can you P'M some contact details just so when you order you know its me.
I will need delivery later on in the week say Thursday if that is ok
I'd also be interested in the larger species cultures like the mentioned mysis and amphiopods and the larger copepods too.
look forward to your culture work and will keep an eye out.
Have pipe fish so anything you suggest i'd also be interested for variety
And hello and welcome to UR from me:)
Hi Willjay thanks for the welcome. How do you guys get on with the feeder (river) shrimp that are occasionally put up for sale? I have these breeding in the office and curious to see how productive they can be. They seem to like newly hatched to adult artemia, live copepods, and our ZM-200 dried feed. Cheers
I used to gut load the feeder shrimp, they went down well but a bit lacking nutritionally.
They also get way to big and can run a bit wild in a reef tank.
Something that grows up to 5mm would be good.
rich_tilbury
30-06-08, 16:51
Just as an aside I notice that my fish (damsels, clowns, tang and an angel fish) become much more aggressive after being fed river shrimp. I don't know if it is the extra protein or that the fish are put into a more alert "mode" with the larger food.
1mm - 5mm live food would be good, if this could be bred easily. London zoo use the larvae from gravid female river shrimp to feed their sea horses, which could be useful, if it is easy to maintain a steady supply.
Ah fugu, not tried those, would be interested to see if my pipe fish like them, do you sell them on your website i couldn't see them?
do they survive long term in saltwater or do they die shortly after put in the tank?
Ah fugu, not tried those, would be interested to see if my pipe fish like them, do you sell them on your website i couldn't see them?
do they survive long term in saltwater or do they die shortly after put in the tank?
last ages in salt water
i use to feed my lionfish this.
i had some water quality issues and it went blind for a bit, so I put 5 of them in the tank with it. they were still around two weeks later when it was recovering.
samwiseman
30-06-08, 18:21
Are river/feeder shrimp something you can deliver??? I usually have to make a special trip to go and get them each week...and more often than not they don't have enough. I am after 150ish per week, every week
rich_tilbury
30-06-08, 18:21
River shrimp are a brackish species I believe. I've spotted survivors after a week or so, if they manage to escape the main tank and get into the sump. However, in the display tank with fish they don't last long.
Hi Guys
We only have a handful of the 'river shrimp' so they are just experimental for the moment. I'll check the options for larger supply and delivery and even local collection. It will be more of a messy business to what we're normally involved with and I'd want a quick way of counting so not 100% sure if its the way to go and no doubt it'll be seasonal supply. I do have a plastic filter matrix that I'll like to try out as a habitat for them. I've yet to check the salinity so will aim to do so tomorrow. The guys that supplied them described them as mysis at the time - anyone know the species name for the river/feeder shrimp? It was described at the time of supply as pretty hardy and tolerating a wide range of salinities and temperature.
If the river shrimp do cause the fish to become agitated I can appreciate how this can be seen as a downer - is the same reaction seen with fish fed with the shrimp on a regular basis? Or is the agitation more like excitement?
For the aquarium guys at London zoo we have recently supplied them with samples of phyto and copepods so I guess these may be have also been used on their seahorses. I'll have to follow this up!
Also, on the shrimp gut loading how was this done? What foods did you use? Here we have the opportunity to use phyto fed rotifers, copepods, and brineshrimp as fodder for the shrimp.
Cheers
rich_tilbury
30-06-08, 20:54
Hi I only mentioned the aggression as a by the by.
Although I have humbug damsels and tomato clowns things are generally reasonably peaceful. After adding the shrimp things seem to get a bit hectic for a day or two. So it could be excitement. Or just the instinct to hunt/ keep the food source for themselves.
I have a Vlamingii tang and it goes into hiding because the humbugs and tomato clown are so grumpy! This time the feeding unfortunately coincided with the humbugs spawning! :( I have a 950L tank... luckily! :)
River shrimp become quite pretty if they feed up on a decent food source.
I've had them last months in my old tank.
Kev
Fugu:
Gut loading shrimp.
I fed them the new era marine flake. Its bright and orange. As they are transparent I used to cherry pick the ones with the most orange bellies.
TBH though I think they get to big to the marine tank and could potenitally compete for food and resources in the tank, which is why a 5mm max food source would be ideal. That would not last long and could be cultured seperately.
Thanks for hearing us out though mate, I've wanted to ask you on this subject for a long time but I couldn't be arsed to email :p this is way easier.
Hi - now worries. This feedback certainly supports the case for live adult/juvenile mysis and if possible juvenile stages of the river shrimp. I haven't yet tried flake on the river shrimp but have a new stock of brineshrimp flake to try out. When you guys make orders just let me know which samples you're interested in trying; Lost Boys is taking samples of Premium Granular, Spirulina Flake and Brineshrimp Flake as a freebie with his order.
Test shrimp tank for gravid river shrimp using 7.5 litre tank and acclimatisation tank:
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk429/copeblob/Shrimp_tk1-1.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk429/copeblob/Shrimp_tk2.jpg
rich_tilbury
05-07-08, 16:59
Excellent!
Do you know what size the river shrimp larvae are? ie Will they get through the grating?
I do like what you have done; it looks like a very neat solution. What we saw in London Zoo was a bit more Heath Robinson, with some sort of overflow with a grate/ weir to move the larvae into a holding area.
HTH
Hi Rich - its just a temporary setup but could work. The river shrimp have bred to egg bearing stage in a static tank with just aeration and water changes so far but the young get eaten. The hang on acclimatisation tank's holes are approx 2mm diagonal so I just hope this works in an attempt to separate the fry from adults. I have copepods in the tank as well so there should be plenty of live food - hopefully the adult copepods won't decide to hassle the young shrimp. For a through flow set up I do have another tank with graded baffles with 0.5 or 1mm rear screen if I need the young to be flushed out to a separate tank. That's a future test. Cheers
rich_tilbury
05-07-08, 22:39
Excellent - look forward to seeing what happens next!
PS I'm originally from Overton, which isn't far from Winchester - actually I was born in Winchester! Maybe one day when I'm down to see family I'll make an excuse to pop over, if you take visitors!
River shrimp lavae are very easy to raise as they are large and well developed (for shrimps). In terms of mesh size all you need is something small enough to stop the female getting to the larvae but large enough to allow the larvae to escape easily away from mum! The larvae are strongly phototrophic so placing a light at the opposite end to where the female is being held as well as having the flow going in this direction will help.
Although flow through systems make seperating, feeding and collecting lavae very easy they can take up more space and dont always look pritty ;) although they function better. If your not using a flow through system the larvae can be placed in a small tank with just an air filter.
The river shrimp lavae have a short pelagic stage during which they can be fed exclusively on newly hatched artemia nauplii. After the shrimp settle out they can be fed anything from finely crushed flake food to frozen zooplankton and cyclopeez. Feed little and often. They can grow very quickly and easily get to mysis size within a month.
:wave:
Hi Hermie - nice input thanks. The female has been carrying the eggs for about 7 days at 20 deg C; any idea of how many more days before the larvae start hatching? I do have some neat options for through flow tanks with smaller holding chambers - I'll see if these can be rigged up for the next brood. Do you know what salinity the larvae should be raised in as I think I've let the salinity to rise to approx 30 ppt since I acquired the adults. Cheers
Im not exactly sure how long egg development takes. When I find any gravid shrimp they are placed in a small tank containing as many as 30 individuals. Once they've released their larvae they are removed so im never 100% sure how long it takes. It is easy to see when they are about to drop! I could hazard a guess at between 10-14 days @20 deg C.
I have a 4 teired system starting with the gravid females. This tank overflows into the secound container where the newly hatched larvae are collected. They stay here for 7 - 10 days feeding on artemia nauplii after which the strainer is removed so they can overflow into the third container. The shrimp are grown out here for a further 7-10 days on flake and frozen cyclops before going into the fourth growout tank. This is done to help minimise canabalizm and also so I have variouse size shrimps to feed out.
To start with the salinity was at 20ppt. The shrimps produced eggs but they often dropped off and didnt develop. They started completing development when salinity was raised to around 30ppt so you should be fine. I keep mine at around 33-35ppt @ ambient temp (currently around 20 C) as it is less hassel.
Good luck. If you can start supplying these it would be great!
All the best
:)
Cheers Hermie - we're still waiting for the shrimp eggs to hatch and meanwhile other females are berrying up.
Here's a general question: what marine species will feed on juvenile freshwater crayfish- say 4-6 cm in size? Just thinking..........
very large predators, most that don't have a home in most reef tanks
lionfish, puffers, triggerfish, eels, groupers(perhaps)
Regarding puffers how much of a problem is excessive beak growth? Is this normally taken care of by offering cockles, having rock present, or manual clipping? Cheers
cockles and rocks, I dont think many would take kindly to clipping.
having said that I haven't seen many with excessive beak growth issues.
Hi Guys
Just an update the river shrimp eggs take ages to hatch. They have gone from black to light brown so I guess something's happening and there must be 30-50 larvae to hatch per female.
Re cockles are they normally frozen? It's just we have an offer on supplying these as well.
Cheers
FUGU
Hi Guys - just a quick update the river shrimp larvae hatched this morning after about 3 weeks incubation and measure approx 3mm, are free swimming in the water column, hang head down, and passed through the holding cage mesh without issue. The female is still carrying a few eggs and will prob be removed tomorrow. I know these are generally considered fodder but it's still an interesting exercise anyway! Stills taken on a binoc dissecting microscope with Nikon Coolpix in movie record mode.
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk429/copeblob/rivershrimp_day1_5.jpg
very cool, be interesting to know what size they get to...
Day 2 River shrimp larvae update.
Larvae appear to be approx 5 mm now and strong swimmers - a little tricky to catch with a pipette now. The mouth pieces / front arms look pretty handy for feeding with. The increase in eye size is particularly noticeable. One photo included to show comparitive size with the rotifer copepod mix that was encouraged to develop in the tank during embryo development. The adult female and plastic cage was removed today. Let's see how they survive the w/e!
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk429/copeblob/Rivershrimp_day2.jpg
Day 5 River shrimp larvae update:
Larvae now ranging between 6-7mm. The bodies are visible darker and appear to take on an orange colour from feeding on newly hatched brineshrimp. The larvae were much harder to film and get in focus today due to being so active even after 6 mins in the fridge.
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk429/copeblob/Rivershrimp_day5.jpg
Day 8 River Shrimp Larvae update:
The larvae are now about 7-8mm and looking chunkier. The numbers of larvae have dropped and the absence of bodies indicates a brood could do with a 5-10 litre tank and more live brineshrimp in future. The larvae are swimming very strongly now and occasionally swimming horizonatally and resting on the plastic matrix added to the tank to provide additional cover. The photo shows two close to an airstone measuring 35 x 20mm
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk429/copeblob/Rivershrimp_day8.jpg
excellent update mate
are they likely to eat smaller crustaceans such as amphipods,isopods and copepods. i assume so from the Brine shrimp.
Cheers Andy - it's been a fun study. I believe the larvae will very readily eat both juvenile and adult copepods and its possible to see the shrimp strike at the pods; so probably the same for smaller amphipods and isopods. Even at day two I'd reckon the larvae will go for an adult copepod. I think I have the adult feeding sorted out now so it'll be good to step up the numbers and volumes.
Where can I get amphipods/isopods from without having to buy a lump of liverock?
Cheers
I can send you some mate with some chaeto,
cheatomorpha linium is macroalgae, its bound to have some in it
i am cultivating some in a bubble light tube to use as a live food source
let me experiment a bit with my cultivation and tell you how to do it
i belive a saline solution, air tube and the chaeto with lots of light will do the trick
Rivershrimp Update at approx 1 month:
Approx 15-20 of the larvae (half of batch) have survived and happy and approx 12-13mm. At 2 weeks they appeared to be minatures of the adults and fully capable to hunt down mature copepods. Other foods they have been offered are young brineshrimp, spirulina powder, ZM-100 and now the ZM-200 fry food. The shrimp are making full use of the plastic filter matrix and I'll probably use this more in future.
Another batch of eggs from a younger female hatched last week and this embryo was dropped for some reason. It is possible to see the head and eye structure and I'm guessing at some of the yolk residue; not sure where the tail is!
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk429/copeblob/Rivershrimp_day0.jpg
A November update:
The rivershrimp continue to grow and breed at room temperature. These guys are from a clutch that were dropped prematurely 2-3 weeks ahead of normal hatching time and simply kept in a petri dish. They look pretty cool with their shades on. The eggs were dropped early due to a sudden water quality issue - my fault but they still hatched OK. I'm going to have to switch to Mysis culture soon for more of a challenge.
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk429/copeblob/Rivershrimp_minus2wks.jpg
Cheers
FUGU
mysis should be interesting mate ;)
Happy New Year! It's been nice to have some time off.
Lots of major reorganising going on. In the meantime here's a trial video of the guys in shades above who were accidentally added to a mixed rot/pod culture and reared on this mix inplace of BBS; the results very good; it'll be interesting to put young seahorses etc in such a mix.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=loMTbE0qVoc
Not sure if vid will work and best viewed on the high quality option.
Cheers
FUGU
Howdy
Bumped into these guys today - possibly a Cirolanid isopod I've been told?
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk429/copeblob/amp_2.jpg
And for scale against a Gammarus:
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk429/copeblob/amp_1.jpg
Happy w/e!
WATERBOY220
31-10-09, 09:08
Here's a general question: what marine species will feed on juvenile freshwater crayfish- say 4-6 cm in size? Just thinking..........[/QUOTE]
my fowlr tank would love something like this can you get them or bigger even
Yep, once the freezer is put online the crayfish are a bulk frozen option with claws and all.
Cheers
WATERBOY220
31-10-09, 17:16
no live ones then still frozen might be cool to haha
Live river shrimp ready to go; should be 50+ per litre, average size 3cm+, 4 lots currently available.
http://www.zmsystems.co.uk/index.php?app=gbu0&ns=catshow&ref=liverotifers
Also waiting for the Gammarus stocks to build up.....
Cheers
Fugu
How are you culturing the Gammarus & what are you feeding them?
Hey Tim - crushed bs and spirulina flake was tried but I think they went into the original filter housing the little so an so's. They seemed happy to pair up. I've seen them cultured elsewhere in shallow dishes and fed on readybrek if I remember rightly; it was a very simple setup. Do you have some growing? Cheers
I found that they grow best with a large surface area. I have Koi filter mats ( Kinda like chaeto.) inside the container with them. They are very open pores ones. I feed them the different flakes I got from you, mysis & chinese market dry seaweed. I think there is something in the seaweed that they need. Live Ulva last about a day or two in the tank. (They love it.) Chaetomorpha algae AKA chaeto makes a great home for them.
In my seahorse tanks, they make a GREAT cleaner & live food source of my H. reidi & H. comes. They are too tough for the H. zosterae though. They are big & strong enough to take down a dwarf seahorse & weaken live mysis.
Filteration is an airline in the container. When I do a harvest, I change about 25% of the water. I also add the Iso & Nanno I got from you @ 25% of the makeup water.
Tim
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