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Very interested in this myself, think i've got the jist of it, some questions for someone thats running this as some of it seems a little confusing,
If i have space for a 38x18x18 sump should i have, small 1st section approx 4" with some course sponge or bio balls, a 2nd section around 8-10" long packed with live rock rubble then 18"x18" section for mud/sand and an end section with my OR3500 but with some course sponge or bio balls in the baffles to stop any algae getting through. Also what about the depth of the mud/sand section does 6" or 7" sound about right with same amount of water depth on top.
Thinking of going for a mixture of the muds and argamax sand, would it be best to layer it or mix it in?
Finally and probably the most important, would it be best to set this up as a separate closed loop system for a few weeks to let it settle before connecting it to my tank or just go for it as i'm a bit concerned of the effects of just dumping my skimmer and hooking this up,
Bit of a long post, sorry.:thanks:
With miracle mud you only need a an inch or two. I went with just the miracle mud and did not mix it with anything else. Regarding turning over to the miracle mud it does produce alot of muck into the water when it is set up. I would isolate the sump compartment if you can and put the mud in dry. Keeping the water moving around in the main display with power heads etc so the return pump is switched off (perhaps?)
Place a piece of plastic over the top of the mud which shoul dbe just an inch or two deep and pour in salted water being careful not to disturb the mud too much. Fill up the compartment let it settle and then connect it to the main system and allow the water to flow through. I could run the skimmer to take out any stuff if the water is cloudy. It runs clear very quickly and once you have the mud filter on line you can then reduce the amount of skimming each day. Reduce the amount of time by an hour each day perhaps and eventually you will remove the skimmer completely and allow the mud filter to take over.
I would go for a large tub of miracle mud and thats it really - probably around 2 inches in depth. Use caulerpa algae weigh the fronds down with small pieces of live rubble and let it root itself into the mud.
My algae fronds are creeping across the mud surface putting down roots and then sending up fronds towards the light. I have approx 100w plus of light over the sump at the moment and I was worried that the light was too much but the fornds are growing well and the roots are spreading fast!
J
dan-the-man
15-10-08, 12:34
These systems are quite subjective ime.
Some use caulerpa, some use chaeto. I personally use chaeto and would only ever recomend this.
Also, I'd throw in some 'live sand' from a friend's or dealer's tank just to start it off - it still needs a bit of help along the way just like any other media.
I wouldn't use bio balls, if necessary I'd use filter floss and keep it regularly changed along with some carbon to keep the water clear.
These systems are quite subjective ime.
Some use caulerpa, some use chaeto. I personally use chaeto and would only ever recomend this.
Also, I'd throw in some 'live sand' from a friend's or dealer's tank just to start it off - it still needs a bit of help along the way just like any other media.
I wouldn't use bio balls, if necessary I'd use filter floss and keep it regularly changed along with some carbon to keep the water clear.
yes chaeto for me. my lights last much longer if they are not on 24/7. I accidently left mine on for two days last week and only realised when the bulb blew.
the makers of mineral mud recommend a 1/2 inch cap of aragonite over the mud. i added a litre or so of very dirty sand from another reefers tank to add some life to the mud bed.
i don't use bio-balls and would not have any permanent mechanical filtration, once cheato gets going its pretty effective mechanical filter anyway. I occasionally use a filter sock over the sump input pipe to polish the water or if I’m blasting the lr or removing coralline or other algae.
We've just decided our new system will be skimmerless as well (although temporarely without non-photo corals), good sand bed, chaeto, halimeda algae and plently of living critters instead!
Looking forward to new forum:thumbsup:
Hi,
Found this thread today. Very interesting.
I am hoping for some advice. I run a 96l nano mainly with lps but also some sps, zoas and mushrooms.
I have just ordered a HOB (or probably HOside) refugium and I am going to have it as a mud based refugium with chaeto.
I am having trouble keeping alk high enough in my current tank and have to dose appros half a teaspoon of bicarb soda a day to keep it up to 2.8meq/l, so i have also ordered an alk reactor and a phosphate reactor (and suplhur based nitrate reactor). They haven't turned up yet, but fingers crosses they should arrive tomorrow.
The dimensions of the refugium are:
Length : 360mm
Width (front to back) : 80mm excluding hang-on bracket
Depth (overall top to bottom) : 250mm
Hang-On Bracket Width : 30mm (Locking screws provided)
Refugium height above bracket level : 70mm
Some questions
1, How much mud do I need (all the LFSs I spoke to recommended mineral mud over miracle mud - any thoughts?)
2, For a tank of my size how much flow / what powerhead should I use to feed the fuge?
3, Should I run it on it's own for a few weeks before connecting to the main tank?
4, Will it needs it own light or bearing in mind its a HOS type will it get enough light through the side glass? (I know that pH stability is an issue but I currently run a rear compartment 2 of my tank with chaeto on reverse photo period to stabilse pH, 11W 11pm to 11am). Due to light spillage in my one bed flat I don't want to run a light over the fuge at night, if possible.
5, Is it okay to still run a skimmer (I have a v2 nano but don't run it presently as the micro bubbles annoyed my blastos, but i think i could sort this out if it was in the fuge, it is just hard maintaing a consistently low water level in the rear compartments of my tank to prevent micro bubbles)
6, Another reason for the fuge is when i went on holiday this year i added an auto feeder for my fish, this sent nitrates sky high (80ppm) as even on the minimum setting it feeds too much. So I want pods to feed the fish for up to two weeks in future. Is this feasible?
7, Will the suplhur nitrate reactor compete detrimentally with the fuge, other than slowing chaeto growth?
All advice appreciated, thanks.
Oh and here is a link to two (adimttedly leng sy sponsored ) miracle mud analyses.
http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/home/45-aquarium-faq/93-miracle-mud-independent-analysis.html
hi
what are your nitrate and phosphates readings now? If they are high you need to discover what is causing these levels.
i don't know about hang on refugea but to answer your more general questions.
the main difference between the muds is price and marketing. People have had success with both.
the level of flow depends on what you are trying to achieve. higher for nutrient removal and lower for critter production.
i wouldn't bother with the sulphur filter until you have tried running the fuge. similarly if you are not running a skimmer now wait and see what happens to your levels after adding the fuge. You need to find out what improves your water quality, if you simultaneously add three extra forms of filtration you’ll never know which is most effective.
The pods won't be enough to feed your tank without supplementary feeding, unless you have a tiny stocking level.
i would run the fuge in isolation until the water clears, that should take a day or so.
Next time you leave the tank don't feed it - as the feeding was too heavy from an automated feeder.
make sure that the fish were well fed leading up to any holiday. If you are leaving the tank for two weeks or more it may be better to have a trusted tank sitter to feed a very small amount halfway through the break.
I left my RSM for over 10 days without feeding and the fish were fine. The corals also loved it as I didnt have my hands in the tank they became really extended and healthy. The only thing is cleaning the algae off the tank when you get back.
The fuge would only take a small amount of mud so either would be good. You could also use a sand bed with live rubble and algae instead of mud.
Ideally for algae you would need a small light to provide for photosynthesis and it would be best to reverse the lighting compared to the main display.
It may be an idea to blacken the side of the fuge to prevent light spilling into the main tank. You need to keep the algae producing oxygen rather than carbon dioxide through the night. A good way to kep pH levels up is to employ reverse lighting on a fuge - during the day the light from the aquarium would be low while during the night the light on the fuge should be operated.
See how the water parameters go with this set up.
J
Thanks for the advice guys.
Apart from low alkalinity water quality is fine right now. phosphate 0.03 and nitrate <10ppm. A few water changes and hand feeding again and it was down to 10-20ppm in a few days.
The main reason i want a phosphate reactor is due to flow through the rowaphos media bag. I find water goes round it rather than through it (path of least resistance) and I am worried that in the future high phospate may be an issue due to this. I also think the media will last longer as the unit volume per granule of rowaphos will be more evenly distributed. I would imagine that currently beads on the outside will experience greater flow and be exhausted more quickly than beads in the centre of the bag, currently i get around this by moving the bag around every few days.
It's not really possible for me to get somebody round to feed the fish when on holiday, as i live in london but don't work there, so it would mean a 3-4hour round trip for somebody. Next time I am away will be for several weeks. Bit too much really.
I know the feeder was feeding too much, which is the main reason for the fuge. I get loads of pods in the back of the tank as i have 4 kilos of live rock rubble and chaeto on reverse photo period (hence i don't think i need the fuge on reverse cycle too) as my only form of filtration, the return pumps tend to kill the pods and shrimps though, hence the fuge as they should just flow into the tank.
How deep should i make a mineral mud bed? 2"?
Do you think running the skimmer would be beneficial to maintain a high pH?
oh I should add that i only have four fish, but two of them are yasha gobies and they really can't go without food for long, as they are so small.
I’m also running a phosban reactor. I’m sure it doesn’t out compete the chaeto, in fact I suspect that using an iron based media will aid the growth of chaeto.
What is your Ph? When I set up my calcium reactor I started to suffer from very low ph 7.65-7.85, I resolved (or masked) this by adding a kalk stirrer ph is now 8 – 8.3. Have you ordered a kalk reactor or calcium reactor?
I ordered this.
http://cleartides.com/page6.htm
Not quite sure what the media is. Just says alk booster.
I think its a kalk reactor.
I'm not sure about a calc stirrer as i don't have much room.
I guess i'll just ned to set it up and see.
It looks like a sulphur reactor connected to a type of media reactor filled with coarse coral sand. The idea is that the acidic effluent from the sulphur reactor dissolves the coal sand and increases the alkalinity and calcium of the tank and raises the ph of the effluent.
It looks like a sulphur reactor connected to a type of media reactor filled with coarse coral sand. The idea is that the acidic effluent from the sulphur reactor dissolves the coal sand and increases the alkalinity and calcium of the tank and raises the ph of the effluent.
Thanks. Do you think it would work?
I was thinking of plumbing it in by t-ing off from the pipe to the refugium and returning the effluent from the alk reactor in to the refugium main tank return, so that it is well mixed in the tank.
I have been told that my refugium will eventually arrive on monday, so i will buy some mineral mud and a pump today.
I was thinking of getting a 600-700 l/hr pump (no head loss as its a hang on fuge) Do you think this adequate?
By the way has anybody ever used mangroves? Are there any drawbacks to using them? I was thinking of using them with chaeto, as i think it could improve the look of the hang on fuge, as its in the living room and my wife thinks it may be ugly and she's probably right:whistling:.
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