View Full Version : Experience with Balling Light
OK, I posted this on RCentral and thought it might be useful here too......
I'm nearly a month into Balling Light. A few observations that may help others starting:
Balling Light is the Fauna Marin version. You can get the manual from this site or RCentral. Classic Balling is the method written on the label and is different!. I went with Balling Light, probably by accident, but am very happy with it so far.
I actually bought 4kg tubs of salt and so made up 10 L worth of solution and am letting that run with dosing pumps. I started dosing it all manually. The solutions are currently in sealed containers with RO tubing running ino them. I assume they will be ok and not go off.
I looked at varoius message boards and dosing for different tanks is often very different.... as expected due to variations in coral stocking etc.
I have a 500 L tank. Currently mixed corals. I plan to go to predomainantly SPS. It is moderately stocked with corals at the mo' but still plenty of space for more SPS.
I try to keep parameters stable at around Alk 8.0, Ca 420 and Mag around 1350.
I have dosed 80 ml Alk, 30ml Ca and 15ml Mag for the last month of the Balling Light solutions. I don't dose NaCl free salt. I do RO top ups and 5-10% water change every weekend.
Looking at tanks that people have posted Balling data on, most people are dosing Alk around 3-5x volume of Ca, with Mag a bit less than Ca.
I added a couple of acro's last week. Today my Alk was 7.4... still within what is recommended for the Ultralith system that I also run.....
I am aiming for 8.0 as it's not too high, but will give a little scope for the Alk to drop before running into problems with it being too low. Today was an example!. I have now adjusted my doser to 90ml/ day alk. When dosing manually, I was dosing alk in 3 doses and 1 dose each of Ca and Mag. All at separate times.
Alk fluctuates the most, so check it daily to start with. Once stable, check every few days. I still check every other day at the moment. Ca maybe twice a week now. And Mag if the other 2 are worrying.
The system is great as you have precise control over adjusting the parameters individually and you can also see the carbonate and calcium being zapped as you add corals and watch them grow....
Hope this helps... Good luck with it.
Mo
I added 3 fair sized acro's today and my alk has dropped 2 days in a row from 8.0 to 7.0.
I had upped the alk to 90ml/ day, but today again the Alk dropped from 7.4 to 7.0. Ca is stable at 420. Today I upped the dose to 110 ml Alk/ day, 30ml Ca and 20 ml Mag.
I am assuming that the extra SPS will also start to drop CA levels fairly soon, so did a pre-emptive increase in dosing by only a small amount.
I will check Alk and Ca daily for a couple days then alk daily until I have it stable again at 8.0. I think FM recommend 6.5-7.0 for Alk. particularly for Ultra low Nutrient systems, so you don't have to stick with 8.0 like I try to. I upped the alk dose a fair bit as I don't want to risk it dropping well below 7.0, but don't mind it so much going up, as I have a few SPS that should soak it up quickly. Hopefully, the new doses will stabilise the readings very quickly.
Also, bear in mind that as you increase stocks and as your SPS grow, the skeleton will require lots more carbonate and calcium.... and you will need to up your dosings accordingly. Keep checking the parameters weekly, but as time goes on, it seems you will get a feel for how much to adjust dosings.
My Monti plates start to go pale in the centre when my Alk drops suddenly, so that seems to be a good measure for me.
Mo
A few months in.....
Ca 420.... dose 25ml (Ca went up to 480, so I dropped a little)
Mg 1320 .... dose 20ml Mg
Alk 8.0..... 115ml Alk... ( added a few more Acros)
System is very stable. I check Alk every few days and Ca/Mg at weekends. Could prob do all each weekend.
Definitely won't switch from this system for Alk Ca Mg supplements.
alanjeffery
05-02-09, 20:06
Interesting thread, please keep updating. :thanks:
Hi Mo.
Thanks for this very useful info as I am about to purchase the Grotech III doser and the necessary additives.
I have a similar sized 500L tank and want to move away from the Calc reactor setup to Balling.
I have a fairly stable system 410, 7.2, 1280 (Cal, Alk, Mag) but want to be more precise as Alk can swing a little between 6.5 and 8 albeit slowly.
Ph swing is something that scares me a little as well which hopefully will be less with the Balling System.
How easy is it to mix up the solution as I have read somewhere that it should be done at room temp
I will keep you posted.
Regards
Andrew
Andrew,
Sorry, I haven't checked this thread for a while.
Use the Balling Light system by FM. I read up on all the Balling variations and chose light.
http://shop.faunamarin.de/media/content/manual_balling-methode_eng.pdf
It works really well. You just need to keep on top of salinity drifts with regular weekly water changes of 5-10%.
You shouldn't get the pH probs that you can get with Ca Reactors with this system. I have heard you can get a long term small drop in pH, but I haven't had it over 6 months.
I have a predominantly SPS (some LPS and softies though) system.
I add 115ml ALK, 20ml Ca, 15ml mag daily via GHL doser. Params: Alk 7.0, Ca 420, Mag 1350.
My Alk is 7.0... I dropped it for ULNS (recommended 6.5-7.5). Everytime I test, the numbers are the same. Nothing has shifted from what I wanted in the last 6 months.
I mix up at room temp using 10L containers. They are in a cupboard in my dining room at the moment. Ca and Mag haven't fallen out of solution and not expecting them to as solubility is good for these. Bicarb may fall out of solution, but dissolve it at 78 to 86 g /l between 18-25deg C. ie if you warm the solution you can dissolve a bit more. It does sometimes clog the dosing pipes if you let it cool too much, so I would dissolve around 78g/l of RO and you should be ok. You need to record your concs and keep them the same for when you make up new solutions. This will avoid dosage adjustments or parameter drifts.
Mo
newbiesalty
06-04-09, 12:49
Interesting thread. Dont mean to hijack your thread Mo but i'll just add my experience here too.
Have around 650L running with a predominantly SPS/LPS setup. I got myself a nice GHL standalone doser and all the salts needed for the full Balling classic method.
I've never used the NaCl free salt which is recommended in the classic balling. Never felt the need, but will start dosing it in a few weeks time when im free, just to replace trace elements.
My salinity has not increased, if anything it has been decreasing due to wet skimming. So I do not do 5-10% weekly water changes. In fact I only do 15% monthly water changes.
The alkalinity is the only parameter which fluctuates. I am trying to keep it stable at 9dKH. I had it stable at 8.3dKH for over 2 months, but recently added more frags and a liquid phosphate remover which crashed the alk to around 5-6dKH. Its been a pain ever since to stablise it.
I used to dose 80ml, but that has now changed to 240ml per day. This however still causes fluctuations throughout the day. So as of yesterday I have spread the 240ml to 24 doses of 10ml. Since alk is changing throughout the day I thought the best way to stablise it would be to spread out the dose throughout the day so that every hour its being topped up by 10ml. Should find out the results later today when an alk test is run.
Magnesium and calcium hardly change at all.
I have dissolved my calcium chloride at 70g/litre and sodium bicarbonate is also 70g/litre. Both are in 25kg salt buckets, so around 16L buckets:) So far no clogged pipes.
Hi guys
As you may have read on the Balling & Me thread I have started the Full Balling method.
I went for an Aquatronica setup (computer and triple pump) after getting clearance from her indoors.
I am adding 100 ml of Alk and Salts and 120ml Calcium/Mag over a 24 hour period 7 hours on 1 off.
So
A. - 18:00 - 01:00
B. - 02:00 - 09:00
C. - 10:00 - 17:00
I am getting a pretty stable Kh of 7.0 - 7.2
Calcium again is stable at around 410
Mag I am manually dosing as well but currently 1300 (will aim for 1360)
I remove 200ml of water per day - no salinity rise as yet but only been running for a week.
ATB
Andrew
Hi Newbiesalty,
I think the conc of full balling solutions are far less as all of the solutions are balanced.
You tend to dose higher volumes with that method, which offsets the salinity issues somewhat. You tend to get far more alk fluctuations when setting up though from what I have seen posted.
Balling light: more conc solutions, less volumes dosed, but very stable very quickly. Also, apparent probs with occasional precipatation into pipes that doesn't seem to occur with full Balling. You also don't need chloride free salts, but they do offer some Balling trace solutions that you can add to the balling light tubs... not many seem to be aware of this option?.... and if you have very large systems, full balling volumes are massive. That is partly why I decided on Balling Light. I initially set up classic balling concs, but just increased to Balling Light......
Mo
Interesting thread. Dont mean to hijack your thread Mo but i'll just add my experience here too.
Have around 650L running with a predominantly SPS/LPS setup. I got myself a nice GHL standalone doser and all the salts needed for the full Balling classic method.
I've never used the NaCl free salt which is recommended in the classic balling. Never felt the need, but will start dosing it in a few weeks time when im free, just to replace trace elements.
My salinity has not increased, if anything it has been decreasing due to wet skimming. So I do not do 5-10% weekly water changes. In fact I only do 15% monthly water changes.
The alkalinity is the only parameter which fluctuates. I am trying to keep it stable at 9dKH. I had it stable at 8.3dKH for over 2 months, but recently added more frags and a liquid phosphate remover which crashed the alk to around 5-6dKH. Its been a pain ever since to stablise it.
I used to dose 80ml, but that has now changed to 240ml per day. This however still causes fluctuations throughout the day. So as of yesterday I have spread the 240ml to 24 doses of 10ml. Since alk is changing throughout the day I thought the best way to stablise it would be to spread out the dose throughout the day so that every hour its being topped up by 10ml. Should find out the results later today when an alk test is run.
Magnesium and calcium hardly change at all.
I have dissolved my calcium chloride at 70g/litre and sodium bicarbonate is also 70g/litre. Both are in 25kg salt buckets, so around 16L buckets:) So far no clogged pipes.
Any plans for ULNS?
Mo
Hi guys
As you may have read on the Balling & Me thread I have started the Full Balling method.
I went for an Aquatronica setup (computer and triple pump) after getting clearance from her indoors.
I am adding 100 ml of Alk and Salts and 120ml Calcium/Mag over a 24 hour period 7 hours on 1 off.
So
A. - 18:00 - 01:00
B. - 02:00 - 09:00
C. - 10:00 - 17:00
I am getting a pretty stable Kh of 7.0 - 7.2
Calcium again is stable at around 410
Mag I am manually dosing as well but currently 1300 (will aim for 1360)
I remove 200ml of water per day - no salinity rise as yet but only been running for a week.
ATB
Andrew
Hi Mo.
Been running Zeo Method since October last year.
Basic 4 + SP, AAHC, ZZ, Pohls Xtra, CV
Will get the balling method sussed then move onto upgrading the Skimmer - my current fav is the FM Ultraskim 2
Andrew
newbiesalty
06-04-09, 17:11
Hi Newbiesalty,
I think the conc of full balling solutions are far less as all of the solutions are balanced.
You tend to dose higher volumes with that method, which offsets the salinity issues somewhat. You tend to get far more alk fluctuations when setting up though from what I have seen posted.
Balling light: more conc solutions, less volumes dosed, but very stable very quickly. Also, apparent probs with occasional precipatation into pipes that doesn't seem to occur with full Balling. You also don't need chloride free salts, but they do offer some Balling trace solutions that you can add to the balling light tubs... not many seem to be aware of this option?.... and if you have very large systems, full balling volumes are massive. That is partly why I decided on Balling Light. I initially set up classic balling concs, but just increased to Balling Light......
Mo
Im not sure what you mean by the concentrations? Both balling classic and balling light use the same chemicals > calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate. The concentrations can be whatever you want them to be, provided they dont exceed the solubility value of the chemical.
For example, I am currently dissolving 70g of calcium chloride per litre of RO water. I can probably dissolve a few more grams per litre, but not much more as I will have saturated the solution and no more will dissolve. The reason I stick with 70g is a totally personal preference based on the fact that it dissolves entirely with that concentration and doesnt cause precipitations etc.
Whether you use balling light or full, the concentrations are not different? The only difference between balling light and full/classic is the use of the NaCl free salts and removing some water from the system to balance out the salinity. Balling light requires no Nacl-free salts because you are supposed to do regular water changes to keep things in check.
If I've got this all wrong feel free to correct me. :thanks:
Im not sure what you mean by the concentrations? Both balling classic and balling light use the same chemicals > calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate. The concentrations can be whatever you want them to be, provided they dont exceed the solubility value of the chemical.
For example, I am currently dissolving 70g of calcium chloride per litre of RO water. I can probably dissolve a few more grams per litre, but not much more as I will have saturated the solution and no more will dissolve. The reason I stick with 70g is a totally personal preference based on the fact that it dissolves entirely with that concentration and doesnt cause precipitations etc.
Whether you use balling light or full, the concentrations are not different? The only difference between balling light and full/classic is the use of the NaCl free salts and removing some water from the system to balance out the salinity. Balling light requires no Nacl-free salts because you are supposed to do regular water changes to keep things in check.
If I've got this all wrong feel free to correct me. :thanks:
Nope, you have got it right.
you still need to remove some water during balling light, the same as you would with balling full, however, if you aren't dosing much then a water change of lower salinity would suffice.
However by doing a water change with a lower salinity you are causing yourself a problem.
in order for the new water to be lower in content that you tank (when you do this w/c) it'll need less salt. this means LESS trace elements, and you need those.
so it's always advised to remove water from the system rather than do weaker w/c's.
all salts, regardless of "full" or "light" can precipitate out, either system gives no advantage.
:wave:
Nope, you have got it right.
you still need to remove some water during balling light, the same as you would with balling full, however, if you aren't dosing much then a water change of lower salinity would suffice.
However by doing a water change with a lower salinity you are causing yourself a problem.
in order for the new water to be lower in content that you tank (when you do this w/c) it'll need less salt. this means LESS trace elements, and you need those.
so it's always advised to remove water from the system rather than do weaker w/c's.
all salts, regardless of "full" or "light" can precipitate out, either system gives no advantage.
:wave:
Example.
The Concentration of CaCl2.2H2O should be 73.5g/l of Water using the Classic Balling method.
The Concentration of CaCl2.2H2O in Balling Light should be 400g/L of Water.
So, you would be adding more volume of the Classic Balling solution to deliver the Molar equivalent of Ca than you would add Balling Light Ca solution.
That is all I meant..... The concentrations of solution are different, the amount of Calcium added is the same.
Thanks
Mo
Hi Mo.
Been running Zeo Method since October last year.
Basic 4 + SP, AAHC, ZZ, Pohls Xtra, CV
Will get the balling method sussed then move onto upgrading the Skimmer - my current fav is the FM Ultraskim 2
Andrew
Nice,
Are you happy with Zeo?. Do you dose manually?.
Did you get any cyano?.... I think there is more scope to drive a cyano outbreak due to the sheer variety in nutrients being supplied. ie multiple AA sources. But if you get it right, the colours seem to pop a lot more in these tanks from some of the pics I have seen.
But Si SPS Hoover's tank is amazing on basic Ultralith alone....
I chose the Bubbleking 500 for my new system, but I hear good things about the Ultraskim's too.....
Mo
newbiesalty
06-04-09, 22:38
Example.
The Concentration of CaCl2.2H2O should be 73.5g/l of Water using the Classic Balling method.
The Concentration of CaCl2.2H2O in Balling Light should be 400g/L of Water.
So, you would be adding more volume of the Classic Balling solution to deliver the Molar equivalent of Ca than you would add Balling Light Ca solution.
That is all I meant..... The concentrations of solution are different, the amount of Calcium added is the same.
Thanks
Mo
Im a bit confused. It is not theoretically possible to dissolve 400g/L of CaCl2.2H2O, hence why I am using 70g/L.
Why do you say 400g/L? I dont get it? :banghead:
C. Schuhmacher
06-04-09, 22:50
Hi
You can dissolve around 800 gramm/Liter from our salts
Greets claude
Im a bit confused. It is not theoretically possible to dissolve 400g/L of CaCl2.2H2O, hence why I am using 70g/L.
Why do you say 400g/L? I dont get it? :banghead:
Don't confuse Bicarb for Calcium salts.
Balling light concentrations are 400g/L and they go straight into solution. They don't ppt at that conc. They do give off some heat, which is why .2H20 is used instead of anhydrous CaCl2.
You can look at the Balling Light manual for suggested concs in Balling Light.
Thanks
Mo
newbiesalty
06-04-09, 23:21
Sorry I got the Calcium confused with the Sodium bicarb! Just took a look at the Balling Light manual and all is right as rain now lol
Thanks
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