AP 902 Not Producing Enough Foam / Bubbles

[funkyparott]

Hi

I purchased a Deltec AP 902 Skimmer with self cleaning head about five months back (this wasn't purchased from D&D, so yes it is second hand).

I understand the skimmer was only about 12 months old when I purchased it.

The problem is, I've only started using the skimmer for the last 3 months or so. I put the lack of foam production down to bedding in etc.

However, the skimmer is not producing enough foam for foam to spill over into the collection cup.

I've set the water level to just above the mark 'A' as per instructions (just above the black fitting that joins the main skimmer body. With the air taps at the 2 o'clock position the bubbles barely reach a quarter of the way up the riser tube.

The only way I can make this unit produce skimate that spills into the collection cup, is by adjusting the valve on the output so the water level sits half way up the riser tube.

I'm certain this is not how the unit should perform. I did try stripping the two air pumps down. I removed the empellor and pin wheel. Everything was left in a bucket of RO water with Critric Acid crystals overnight.
I've cleaned the venturi taps, black tube and the plastic venturi pipes on the pump.

I can't think what else I can do to improve the situation.
The pinwheels look fine to me with no damage.
The shaft looks fine with no signs of foul play etc.

I've heard about bushes being a problem if they wear. How can I tell?
Are the bushes the two rubber things that sit either side of the ceramic axel?

The only other thing is the feed pump I am using is a 1260, therefore not the recommended throughput of 3,000 LPH. I'm going to order an Ehiem 1262 tomorrow to see if this helps.

Can Deltec sell me any new bushes to see if this improves things? I've heard mention that the 'red' bushes are the new improved ones.

I totally appreciate I purchased this second hand. I can provide a serial number if it helps.

Any assistance you can provide would be greatly appreciated as this setup cost me an awful lot of money even second hand.

Cheers

FP

[Reef bloke]

Hi mate
Ive just read this bit

I've set the water level to just above the mark 'A' as per instructions (just above the black fitting that joins the main skimmer body. With the air taps at the 2 o'clock position the bubbles barely reach a quarter of the way up the riser tube.


Do you mean just above the bayonet fitting on the cup rather than the bottom of the black fitting thats glued onto the body?

[Rambo]

Hi

I purchased a Deltec AP 902 Skimmer with self cleaning head about five months back (this wasn't purchased from D&D, so yes it is second hand).

I understand the skimmer was only about 12 months old when I purchased it.

The problem is, I've only started using the skimmer for the last 3 months or so. I put the lack of foam production down to bedding in etc.

However, the skimmer is not producing enough foam for foam to spill over into the collection cup.

I've set the water level to just above the mark 'A' as per instructions (just above the black fitting that joins the main skimmer body. With the air taps at the 2 o'clock position the bubbles barely reach a quarter of the way up the riser tube.

The only way I can make this unit produce skimate that spills into the collection cup, is by adjusting the valve on the output so the water level sits half way up the riser tube.

I'm certain this is not how the unit should perform. I did try stripping the two air pumps down. I removed the empellor and pin wheel. Everything was left in a bucket of RO water with Critric Acid crystals overnight.
I've cleaned the venturi taps, black tube and the plastic venturi pipes on the pump.

I can't think what else I can do to improve the situation.
The pinwheels look fine to me with no damage.
The shaft looks fine with no signs of foul play etc.

I've heard about bushes being a problem if they wear. How can I tell?
Are the bushes the two rubber things that sit either side of the ceramic axel?

The only other thing is the feed pump I am using is a 1260, therefore not the recommended throughput of 3,000 LPH. I'm going to order an Ehiem 1262 tomorrow to see if this helps.

Can Deltec sell me any new bushes to see if this improves things? I've heard mention that the 'red' bushes are the new improved ones.

I totally appreciate I purchased this second hand. I can provide a serial number if it helps.

Any assistance you can provide would be greatly appreciated as this setup cost me an awful lot of money even second hand.

Cheers

FP

Hi Mate,

I have one of these skimmers, and they are very good.
When ever I service my pumps or switch off, I find that the water level will be a lot higher in the black AIR Tubes. I just blow back down them to clear of water, then the pumps take in the air they need. Why do you want to run at 2.oclock with the air taps, I run max in max out.

It might pay to put a picture up so we can take a look at the way it is setup.

Regards

Rambo

[Dami]

Hi there, i'm running a 702, but the only difference is the lenght of the riser tube, this is where you water should be at with the circ pumps off (feed pump on!)

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/IMG_2411.jpg

this is where the foam should be at after 90secs, when the circ's are running, before it begins to pull anything, if you've set the correct water level in the riser tube,

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/IMG_2414.jpg

and here my outlet valve (running 3000litres through it, but it will change depending on what kind of runn you have after the T piece. ps: don't forget to put a breather hole in the outlet tube if returning below water level in the sump (prevents air traps and the skimmer backing-up!)

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/IMG_2418.jpg

and heres what it should do if it's set as so....

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q4/IMG_2403.jpg

about 3 days worth....
:wave:

[funkyparott]

Hi mate
Ive just read this bit

I've set the water level to just above the mark 'A' as per instructions (just above the black fitting that joins the main skimmer body. With the air taps at the 2 o'clock position the bubbles barely reach a quarter of the way up the riser tube.


Do you mean just above the bayonet fitting on the cup rather than the bottom of the black fitting thats glued onto the body?

Hi Mate,

I actually tried both. The instruction diagram shows point A as being the black fitting joining the clear acrylic body. I've tried also up just by the bayonet fitting but this didn't work either. :(

Cheers

FP

[funkyparott]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I'll take some photos of my setup.

FP

[nickd]

FP

What is your stocking level? - is there much to skim?
Are you dosing anything? I run a 902 and the skimmate has decreased recently due to dosing with zeo.

[funkyparott]

Stocking level is pretty low. Nitrates seem to be between 2 and 4. I want skimate like Dimano's !

The ehiem I'm using is the 1060 which I don't think is powerful enough. I've ordered a new Ehiem 1262 which does 3,400 LPH so hopefully this pump will deliver the correct flow (which I believe is 3,000 LPH).

Pump should be here on Friday.

I've not had a chance to take photos as her indoors has me laying laminate in the kitchen. :)

Thanks for everyone's help so far.

FP

[Reef bloke]

FP even with a slow feed it should still skim if you back up the levels with a ball valve.It all seems very odd,your not running any kind of chemical filtration up flow of the skimmer that might be effecting it?

[westiefish]

I have a 902 and run it half way up the cup, the airline taps fully open.
I dont seem to get alot of skimmate in the cup, dont know if its because i have zero nitrate(or very very close to) and all perams ok, but dont have a massive fish stock for my reef.
The only maintenance i do is clean the cup and make sure the airline valves are clear of fluff.
Is there any other maintenance i should do anyone?

[drivewayreef]

Hi Al , I feed my 902 with an or 3500 only slightly throttled back and I've removed the air taps altogether :eek: i think your feedpump is maybe not up to it :)
Cheers,Mike

[muzzy]

i am running athe AP902 - Scoobs old one.
I have removed the ait taps to allow more air into the mix, the water level is just below the bayonet fitting and i get a full cup full of skimmate a week - its works like a trojan.

at a guess id say you dont have enough waste in the system to be filtered out

[Dami]

Just a last thought, if you are using carbon, especially if it's fluidised!, what is the carbon grade and did you rinse it heavily.
I've had issues in the past moving away from Rowa Carbon, where by tiny minute dust and carbon particals were born into the water colume. it total knocked out my skimmer and was unable to create any foam, took 10days changing filter wool every 48hrs to strip the dust out the water.
You wouldn't see it, it won't settle on anything, but if its there then it'll be enough.
try some filter wool for 24hrs, and see whats on it at the end. always worth a go....and then move back to Rowa :D
:wave:

[Norvern Rob]

I have a 902 and run it half way up the cup, the airline taps fully open.
I dont seem to get alot of skimmate in the cup, dont know if its because i have zero nitrate(or very very close to) and all perams ok, but dont have a massive fish stock for my reef.
The only maintenance i do is clean the cup and make sure the airline valves are clear of fluff.
Is there any other maintenance i should do anyone?

Once a month or so I use a plastic syringe to inject hot water down the airlines 4 or 5 times, this clears any salt buildup that could occur inside the airline.

[muzzy]

Once a month or so I use a plastic syringe to inject hot water down the airlines 4 or 5 times, this clears any salt buildup that could occur inside the airline.

yeas, a good idea, but i prefer a method i first saw described by scoob which i now do weekly, and that is to take a cupful of RO water and allow the airlines to suck the water out the cup. also remove the airlines from the venturi's and insert a cocktail stick to remove any salt creep around the air intakes. (only do this with the skimmer running or you will end up with water peeing out on you!

[funkyparott]

I purchased a brand new Nitrate test kit last night.

The reading on the water was 0 ppm for Nitrate which may go some way to explaining why I'm not getting loads out of the skimmer. Having said that, I would still expect it to produce a clear liquid ??

I've taken the advice in this thread and set the water level as per the photos. Removing the two air taps from the tube has also helped as has adjusting the two brushes on the self cleaning head. I am getting foam that occasionally hits the lid and spills over into the collection cup.

FP

[Dami]

out of curiosity, how is the skimmer feed, where abouts in your system/sump it it placed, and is there any filtration even micron bags in front of it?:wave:

[funkyparott]

out of curiosity, how is the skimmer feed, where abouts in your system/sump it it placed, and is there any filtration even micron bags in front of it?:wave:

The skimmer pump is an old Ehiem 1260 (which I belive does not deliver the recommended 3,000 LPH).

I'm waiting for a 1262 to be delivered (which does 3,400 LPH - I will throttle this down).

The feed pump is in the very first chambre of the sump (where the water comes crashing in from the main tank). There is no filter in this chambre. I figured this was the best place as the dirt particles would still be in suspension in the water.
The skimmer outputs into the middle chamber of the sump.
There is a feed pump for my phosban reactor in the same chamber as the skimmer feed pump, but this is just a little maxijet affair.

FP

[Dami]

and you've got no carbon in there yeah?
just trying to think of viable reason as to why it won't lift a decent head....
have you tried running any filter floss?
have you tried it with out the self cleaning head (or do you not have the original lid?).

the last reason would be the feed pump, a lot of the deltec skimmers need X amount of water to process per second through put. oftern they'll take a little more than the recommended flow and work even better, so this may be an issue for you.....
sorry i can't help you any more...
:wave:

[Ducati916]

do you get any sludge build up in the neck of the collection cup? does sound like a mix of to small feed pump and not a lot of fish. i have a 703 and it takes a few weeks to need emptying due to very few fish in a large system, what does flow into the cup is thick and brown. mine is fed by a 1060 and i have removed the air valves as kept blocking..

[funkyparott]

I do get a fair build up of gunk around the neck. I think this is partly down to the feed pump not being powerful enough. I can't explain why that would be, because I can achieve the correct water height by using the ball valve on the outlet.

I'm hoping to get the new pump on Thursday assuming CC get their stock in on Wednesday.:)

do you get any sludge build up in the neck of the collection cup? does sound like a mix of to small feed pump and not a lot of fish. i have a 703 and it takes a few weeks to need emptying due to very few fish in a large system, what does flow into the cup is thick and brown. mine is fed by a 1060 and i have removed the air valves as kept blocking..

[funkyparott]

There is defo no carbon being run in my system.
I do have the self cleaning head running every four hours.
I'm hoping the correct rated feed pump will make a difference.
:)

Cheers

FP

and you've got no carbon in there yeah?
just trying to think of viable reason as to why it won't lift a decent head....
have you tried running any filter floss?
have you tried it with out the self cleaning head (or do you not have the original lid?).

the last reason would be the feed pump, a lot of the deltec skimmers need X amount of water to process per second through put. oftern they'll take a little more than the recommended flow and work even better, so this may be an issue for you.....
sorry i can't help you any more...
:wave:

[funkyparott]

Hi Mike

I didn't realise you had a 902!

Anyway, I should have the new pump on Thursday. Removing the air taps has helped a lot.

:)

Cheers

Al

Hi Al , I feed my 902 with an or 3500 only slightly throttled back and I've removed the air taps altogether :eek: i think your feedpump is maybe not up to it :)
Cheers,Mike