View Full Version : New Balling light manual
C. Schuhmacher
11-09-09, 23:54
Hi Guys
Here is the new balling light manual.
http://shop.faunamarin.de/media/content/Balling%2022.06JK-comm_ENG.pdf
I hope my translation is to understand
Greets claude
Beautiful, nicely written, covers everything great
Translation is fine.
now there can be no need for threads on balling :) we can all sleep easier now :D
Hi
Nice one Claude better get my order of Balling stuff over :-)
regards jez
keith hellyar
12-09-09, 09:45
I'm a bit worried about the recommended range of 6.5 - 8 for dkh. seems a little low to me. Any thoughts?
Keith
alanjeffery
12-09-09, 14:25
Ive been contemplating switching from calc reactor to Balling Light for a while and have been keeping my eye on forums for tips,user experiences and feedback. Mainly thanks to posts from Damiano, Wave Ace and Keith Hellyar i have now made my mind up,taken the plunge and removed my reactor and got the salts. Now i have the new "Balling Light manual" from Claude/FM printed off. Quite excited and looking forward to new way of running system.
Thank you to all that have posted relevant info.
Al
Why do you have to dissolove 500g of Sodium Bicarb in 4 litres of RO?
From what I can find the saturation point for Sodium bicarb is 78g per 1 litre of RO. This would mean you only need 312g of Sodium Bicarb for 4 litres to make a saturated solution.
This means, by adding 500g to 4 litres, that the 'small residue' at the bottom of the container would equate to around 188g of wasted Sodium Bicarb.
Can you explain your measurement of 500g?
Cav, you're right... saturation is 84grams per litre.
also i don't understand the reason for recommended dosing, 50 ml will raise a 500 litre tank by 20ppm?
Why do you have to dissolove 500g of Sodium Bicarb in 4 litres of RO?
From what I can find the saturation point for Sodium bicarb is 78g per 1 litre of RO. This would mean you only need 312g of Sodium Bicarb for 4 litres to make a saturated solution.
This means, by adding 500g to 4 litres, that the 'small residue' at the bottom of the container would equate to around 188g of wasted Sodium Bicarb.
Can you explain your measurement of 500g?
it's always been 500g per 5 liters
But it has always been said to do half and dose twice the amount
it's always been 500g per 5 liters
But it has always been said to do half and dose twice the amount
That is what I thought as I dissolve 100g Sodium Bicarb in 2 litres of RO (don't have any larger containers) and dose 20ml of RO to get around 1g of Sodium Bicarb.
My 180 litre (160litres after displacement) tank uses 1dkh of alk per day which is replaced by dosing 6g of sodium bicarb a day so
20ml of my solution = 1g,
To get the 6g I need, 20ml x 6 =120ml
12 doses x 10ml of solution = 120ml
120ml = 6g of Sodium Bicarb
So I add 10ml of the solution every half hour from 2300-0430.
This keeps my alk between 8.4 - 8.6 which is in balance with my Callcium which is kept a steady 420ppm by mixing 200g of Calcium Chloride with 2 litres of RO giving me a solution of 10ml of solution = 1g of Calcium Chloride
The tank gets dosed 3g of Calcium Chloride a day in 3 x 10ml doses given 1 hour apart from 0800 - 1000.
These measurements have worked for well over 5 months, the first 4.5 months were done manaully in pre mixed numbered bottles, the last couple of weeks I have used the same dosing method but it is now carried out by my GHL.
That is what I thought as I dissolve 100g Sodium Bicarb in 2 litres of RO (don't have any larger containers) and dose 20ml of RO to get around 1g of Sodium Bicarb.
My 180 litre (160litres after displacement) tank uses 1dkh of alk per day which is replaced by dosing 6g of sodium bicarb a day so
20ml of my solution = 1g,
To get the 6g I need, 20ml x 6 =120ml
12 doses x 10ml of solution = 120ml
120ml = 6g of Sodium Bicarb
So I add 10ml of the solution every half hour from 2300-0430.
This keeps my alk between 8.4 - 8.6 which is in balance with my Callcium which is kept a steady 420ppm by mixing 200g of Calcium Chloride with 2 litres of RO giving me a solution of 10ml of solution = 1g of Calcium Chloride
The tank gets dosed 3g of Calcium Chloride a day in 3 x 10ml doses given 1 hour apart from 0800 - 1000.
These measurements have worked for well over 5 months, the first 4.5 months were done manaully in pre mixed numbered bottles, the last couple of weeks I have used the same dosing method but it is now carried out by my GHL.
there is a saying Cav If it works dont try fixing it
your Bicarb is how I mix it 100 grams per 2 litres
then 1 mil = 0.05 g (20mil = 1g)
the only thing I do is mix 800grams of Calcium Chloride in 2 litres
that works out at 1 mil = 0.4g (2.5mil =1g)
there is a saying Cav If it works dont try fixing it
your Bicarb is how I mix it 100 grams per 2 litres
then 1 mil = 0.05 g (20mil = 1g)
the only thing I do is mix 800grams of Calcium Chloride in 2 litres
that works out at 1 mil = 0.4g (2.5mil =1g)
I've found though that even mixing the 200g of FM Calcium with 2 litres of RO I still get a layer of sediment on the bottom of my dosing tank where it has fallen out of solution.
Do you have the same issue?
I've found though that even mixing the 200g of FM Calcium with 2 litres of RO I still get a layer of sediment on the bottom of my dosing tank where it has fallen out of solution.
Do you have the same issue?
I assume you mean 800g Wayne??:whistling:
I don't have any problems with the FM Ca when mixed 800g to 2 litres of RO:)
I've found though that even mixing the 200g of FM Calcium with 2 litres of RO I still get a layer of sediment on the bottom of my dosing tank where it has fallen out of solution.
Do you have the same issue?
No not a problem at all BUT I dont use FM
I assume you mean 800g Wayne??:whistling:
I don't have any problems with the FM Ca when mixed 800g to 2 litres of RO:)
No, I mean 200g.
I only mix 200g of Calcium with 2 litres of RO and yet still get sediment on the bottom of my storage tank.
No, I mean 200g.
I only mix 200g of Calcium with 2 litres of RO and yet still get sediment on the bottom of my storage tank.
How is that possible? the mixture should clear in 90 seconds and be fine even at 800+ grams per 2000ml RO.
C. Schuhmacher
12-09-09, 20:35
Hi Cav
This can be happen if you use Tab water or water with high carbonate or salt load
iif you use osmotic water you can dissolved around 800 gramm/Liter
Greets claude
C. Schuhmacher
12-09-09, 20:42
Hi
:-( i try my best english and then the importants thing on the balling lite was not understand )
Ok once again
The first dosing is a sample !!!! the first dose you need to check about how many mg the level will raise up if you add one of the solutions.
It can be 20 ml or 50 ml or 100 ml it depends on the size of the tank.
....
I use 500 gramm of our bicarb cause it is not only bicarb in and ! it make no sense to say the people use 432 gramm , Balling light must be easy so add 500 then water in so you have a full saturated solution.
The small rest in the box make no difference and you can use it later if you add a little bit more water in the canister
Hope now is clear
Hi Cav
This can be happen if you use Tab water or water with high carbonate or salt load
iif you use osmotic water you can dissolved around 800 gramm/Liter
Greets claude
It's mixed in 100% 0 TDS RO water. It is mixed in a 3 litre jerry can and given a very good shake for about a minute (once the water has cooled slightly from adding the calcium).
When I get home on Monday I'll take a picture of the sediment.
I don't get the sediment with my Sodium bicarb or Mag chloride/sulphate but those aren't FM products.
Claude, your english is fine.
Was only pointing out small details.
It's mixed in 100% 0 TDS RO water. It is mixed in a 3 litre jerry can and given a very good shake for about a minute (once the water has cooled slightly from adding the calcium).
When I get home on Monday I'll take a picture of the sediment.
I don't get the sediment with my Sodium bicarb or Mag chloride/sulphate but those aren't FM products.
This is Muzzy's calcium yes? the tank tests pelleted calcium...
C. Schuhmacher
12-09-09, 20:50
Hi
half a year it was a batch in the market where the
biopolymers oxidze and there was a small brownish fall out
If you add calcium the water becomes hot not cooled
did you been sure that you add the correct stuff ?
greets claude
Are you sure on those figures?
i make it only 0.71grams per 2.5ml. should be 3.5ml per 1 gram.
800g / 2000mil (2litres) = 0.4
1 / 0.4 = 2.5 so 1g = 2.5 mil
This is Muzzy's calcium yes? the tank tests pelleted calcium...
No it's the FM Calcium. Not used Muzzys yet.
Hi
half a year it was a batch in the market where the
biopolymers oxidze and there was a small brownish fall out
If you add calcium the water becomes hot not cooled
did you been sure that you add the correct stuff ?
greets claude
The container I have is around 8 months old and what I meant was I shake up the container once the solution has cooled down after it has heated up through adding the Calcium as the container is quite hot to touch.
800g / 2000mil (2litres) = 0.4
1 / 0.4 = 2.5 so 1g = 2.5 mil
I get this same calculation.
2000ml/800g = 2.5ml
2.5ml = 1g
ie: To get 5g of Sodium Bicarb you would have to add 12.5ml of your solution (5 x 2.5).
ok, then i'm wrong.. it's just that when i add my salts it won't fit into a 2litre tub, and it weights 2.8kgs. so i appologise to all for getting this wrong, also those in the chemisty forum who i have i'll advised.
800g / 2800ml ? total volume of the fluid when the salt is added is 2800ml, but it contains a total of only 800g of salt right?
No as your not adding to the volume of water
lets do it with the full 5 litres
2000g (2kg) mixed into 5000mil (5 litres) 2000/5000 = 0.4
1 / 0.4 = 2.5 so 1g = 2.5 mil
No as your not adding to the volume of water
i'm really confused now
To work out the volumes correctly you should be adding the chemical to a reduced volume of water and then making it up to the volume you want.
So for example if you want 2L then you should start off with 1.5L, add the 800g and then make up to the 2L with more water. That gives you 800g/2000ml which means you have 0.4 g/ml.
If you add the 800g to the 2L then you end up with more liquid, say about 2400ml so you have 800g/2400ml which is only 0.33333g/ml so you need to add more for the same quantity of additive. If you take this into account then you don't have an issue, but you can't use the 0.4g/ml if you do this.
To work out the volumes correctly you should be adding the chemical to a reduced volume of water and then making it up to the volume you want.
So for example if you want 2L then you should start off with 1.5L, add the 800g and then make up to the 2L with more water. That gives you 800g/2000ml which means you have 0.4 g/ml.
If you add the 800g to the 2L then you end up with more liquid, say about 2400ml so you have 800g/2400ml which is only 0.33333g/ml so you need to add more for the same quantity of additive. If you take this into account then you don't have an issue, but you can't use the 0.4g/ml if you do this.
thankyou!
For just a breif moment i thought i was going mad looking at my jug thinking surely that is a greater volume than i started with......:rolleyes:
To work out the volumes correctly you should be adding the chemical to a reduced volume of water and then making it up to the volume you want.
So for example if you want 2L then you should start off with 1.5L, add the 800g and then make up to the 2L with more water. That gives you 800g/2000ml which means you have 0.4 g/ml.
If you add the 800g to the 2L then you end up with more liquid, say about 2400ml so you have 800g/2400ml which is only 0.33333g/ml so you need to add more for the same quantity of additive. If you take this into account then you don't have an issue, but you can't use the 0.4g/ml if you do this.
This is what I do. I was asuming that Wave Ace did the same.
C. Schuhmacher
12-09-09, 23:18
Hi Cav
Hmm maybe one of this older batch
donīt worry
send me your adress i will send you for free a new balling Set.
we did not use pellets this is mostly technical quality so we will not use it
greets claude
C. Schuhmacher
12-09-09, 23:38
HI
??? Why 4 Liters
when i am ready i have 5 Liters in my canister
i did not check how many water exact this is cause it make no difference
for me is important to create a solution with 2 kg of salt
so all solutions are the same whenever i mix them
Greets claude
HI
??? Why 4 Liters
when i am ready i have 5 Liters in my canister
i did not check how many water exact this is cause it make no difference
for me is important to create a solution with 2 kg of salt
so all solutions are the same whenever i mix them
Greets claude
typo, sorry, 5 litres. ok, finished, i'm tired with this now..........
HI
??? Why 4 Liters
when i am ready i have 5 Liters in my canister
i did not check how many water exact this is cause it make no difference
for me is important to create a solution with 2 kg of salt
so all solutions are the same whenever i mix them
Greets claude
I think he is saying 4 litres as it states to mix the 2kg of salts with 4 litres of RO on the new guide.
As discussed earlier in the thread do you start with 4 litres of RO and then add the salts, making the solution more than 4 litres or do start with something like 2 litres of RO, add the salt and then add more RO until you have 4 litres inclusive of the salt?
The more I write it the more I'm confusing myself:laugh:
EDIT: I have just re read the instructions and it does clearly state that you mix the salts with 4 litres of RO then add more RO to make the solution up to 5 litres so you have a 5 litre solution inclusive of the salts:o
The way I read the instructions is, 5 litre container, put 4 ltrs in it, add salts, then fill to 5 ltr mark.
The way I read the instructions is, 5 litre container, put 4 ltrs in it, add salts, then fill to 5 ltr mark.
as above
The way I read the instructions is, 5 litre container, put 4 ltrs in it, add salts, then fill to 5 ltr mark.
Correct, indeed it does.
This is the same way I do it but with 2 litres of RO (start with 1.5litres, add salt, top up to 2 litres).
I'm embarresed to say I neglected to read that part correctly and just skimmed over it:o
Claude
Have you amended the Balling Light Manual from your original post on this thread?
It now states 2kg of Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate.
In the version I have saved to my PC it is 2.5kg of Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate.
The trace complex amounts are also less in the latest version on your website.
Can you clarify this please.
Thanks:)
C. Schuhmacher
08-11-09, 23:42
HI
Yes we made the manual more easy concetrate the elments
so you have 100 % more for the same price
rgds claude
Claude
Have you amended the Balling Light Manual from your original post on this thread?
It now states 2kg of Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate.
In the version I have saved to my PC it is 2.5kg of Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate.
The trace complex amounts are also less in the latest version on your website.
Can you clarify this please.
Thanks:)
happy hammer
09-11-09, 14:17
Hi people just being reading this thread as i have being running the old light version for about 5 months with great results. My question is i have never dosed these trace elements to my containers and just do 5% water changes a week am i missing out on something.
HI
Yes we made the manual more easy concetrate the elments
so you have 100 % more for the same price
rgds claude
Thanks for the explanation Claude:)
Hi people just being reading this thread as i have being running the old light version for about 5 months with great results. My question is i have never dosed these trace elements to my containers and just do 5% water changes a week am i missing out on something.
Have a read of this thread on trace elements (http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=342923):)
happy hammer
09-11-09, 18:41
Right still cant be sure has anyone seen any clear signs that there system is better due to these elements. I had a red sea max 1 year ago and was told to use grotech a,b,c but found no improved growth or colour but still carried on using them on the new setup until i run out . Infact my corals looked far better when i stopped dosing this stuff maybe i was over dosing but cant be sure.Thanks for the explanation Claude:)
Have a read of this thread on trace elements (http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=342923):)
soggybongo
09-11-09, 19:41
been looking into balling as i now run a zeo tank with a calcium reactor and just cant seem to get the alk low enough without lowering the kalk level
been looking into balling as i now run a zeo tank with a calcium reactor and just cant seem to get the alk low enough without lowering the kalk level
sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "lowering the kalk level".
funkyparott
20-01-10, 16:02
I'm really sorry , but I don't understand this.
I add my chemical direct to the final volume of water.
i.e 2000g Calcium Chloride to 5 litres of RO water
How does doing the above give a different chemical to ml ratio as opposed to mixing it with 4 litres first?
If I add a pitcher of orange squash to a glass of water, regardless of whether I start with a full glass of water or just half a glass, mix in the squash and top up - the end result is the same after I have stired it.
In the later example, adding the remaining water after the squash doesn't end up with some squash not disolved in the water.
To work out the volumes correctly you should be adding the chemical to a reduced volume of water and then making it up to the volume you want.
So for example if you want 2L then you should start off with 1.5L, add the 800g and then make up to the 2L with more water. That gives you 800g/2000ml which means you have 0.4 g/ml.
If you add the 800g to the 2L then you end up with more liquid, say about 2400ml so you have 800g/2400ml which is only 0.33333g/ml so you need to add more for the same quantity of additive. If you take this into account then you don't have an issue, but you can't use the 0.4g/ml if you do this.
I'm really sorry , but I don't understand this.
I add my chemical direct to the final volume of water.
i.e 2000g Calcium Chloride to 5 litres of RO water
How does doing the above give a different chemical to ml ratio as opposed to mixing it with 4 litres first?
If I add a pitcher of orange squash to a glass of water, regardless of whether I start with a full glass of water or just half a glass, mix in the squash and top up - the end result is the same after I have stired it.
In the later example, adding the remaining water after the squash doesn't end up with some squash not disolved in the water.
The density of the salt will increase the water volume by displacement.
If you add the salts to 4 litres it will take the volume to more than that (not sure how much but I used 1kg in 2 litres, if I add 1kg to 1.5 litres in raises the volume by about 150ml) you then top up the 4 litres to make 5 litres of mix, this will give you the correct g to ml measurement.
funkyparott
20-01-10, 18:21
The density of the salt will increase the water volume by displacement.
If you add the salts to 4 litres it will take the volume to more than that (not sure how much but I used 1kg in 2 litres, if I add 1kg to 1.5 litres in raises the volume by about 150ml) you then top up the 4 litres to make 5 litres of mix, this will give you the correct g to ml measurement.
I think I follow that. So adding the 2000g to the 4 litres of water initially, will cause some displacement in water - meaning I may not need to add another litre of water exactly. I add what ever it takes to hit the 5 litre mark.
That does make sense now. At least I know for next time.
Yup, exactly right.. you got it now :)
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